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 Post subject: The ALL
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:38 am 
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Tom,

You've mentioned this idea in MBTOE as well as the London Lecture, e.g., you've said something to the effect that for all we know we may be analogous to bacteria in the gut of the One. You've said that you've explored many Systems, but that you know that there are many you haven't explored. (I'm going from memory, so correct my misconceptions about your remarks.)

So, with respect to the All, the One Consciousness, isn't it logical to consider that our All may be just one of many Alls, such that our All may be one cell within a greater body?


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 Post subject: Re: The ALL
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:57 am 
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Roland wrote:
Tom,

You've mentioned this idea in MBTOE as well as the London Lecture, e.g., you've said something to the effect that for all we know we may be analogous to bacteria in the gut of the One. You've said that you've explored many Systems, but that you know that there are many you haven't explored. (I'm going from memory, so correct my misconceptions about your remarks.)

So, with respect to the All, the One Consciousness, isn't it logical to consider that our All may be just one of many Alls, such that our All may be one cell within a greater body?


I actually got into this a little bit on here- in my post "Liberation, Nirvana, Parinirvana" which you can find, if you want, on the "View active topics" page (scroll down a bit). Here is a little excerpt, and a reply from Ted:

ColeRandall wrote:
Another thing- your post automatically brings to mind the Buddhist idea of dependent origination. Basically this says that the existence of something depends upon a larger something (in a general nutshell). Now in our case PMR and nPMR (and all other reality systems within AUM) are "dependent" on the One consciousness (or individuated units thereof). But now that you mention the idea of something or some kind of environment outside of the One consciousness- I can't help but wonder where that leaves AUM? Granted we can only speculate. Not that I could even begin to imagine what that environment would actually "be like"- would it be fair to say that AUM theoretically depends upon it for its survival? But if conscious existence DOES exist outside of "The One" then "The One" or the "AUM" we are always referring to is really still just "one of the ones" etc. So where is the real base of reality? Isn't one I suppose? Except (again) to say that its consciousness I guess...- just that it doesn't stop at AUM.


TED REPLIED:

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Cole, in your next paragraph in total and perhaps boiling down to "So where is the real base of reality?"

Ted: Regarding this whole paragraph, I am sorry, but I must say that I feel that there is no fruitful result from this kind of speculation. Tom has discussed this as well in MBT and stated that we do not and cannot know. In my opinion, we have such a great advance in potential understanding available from MBT that I see no need for or value from speculation in advance of even the hint of data availability.


So my feeling is that most here are not going to speculate on what ever may be "outside" the one. Maybe our concept of "outside" the one is a flawed PMR construct in the first place... Since in my mind- if it exists, it's consciousness- if it's consciousness- it's The One.


Cole

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 Post subject: Re: The ALL
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:02 am 
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Maybe I'm misreading your remarks, but you appear to be trying to tell me what I may speculate about, or what's is worthy of speculating about. If that's true, then the effrontery baffles me. And if either is true, then thanks, but I can determine that for myself. I can't imagine you trying to do that, though, so I must be misreading your post. Or perhaps you haven't anticipated for what more complex reasons I might have for asking the question - reasons that lie outside of the immediate question.


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 Post subject: Re: The ALL
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:19 am 
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Roland wrote:
Maybe I'm misreading your remarks, but you appear to be trying to tell me what I may speculate about, or what's is worthy of speculating about. If that's true, then the effrontery baffles me. And if either is true, then thanks, but I can determine that for myself. I can't imagine you trying to do that, though, so I must be misreading your post. Or perhaps you haven't anticipated for what more complex reasons I might have for asking the question - reasons that lie outside of the immediate question.


I think you might be (misreading my remarks). It's the quote up there by Ted that mentions the "fruitlessness of such speculation." I was the one doing the speculating in the first quote I showed you. In other words- I'm with you on speculating about such things, I was just saying that- it seems like most here are not willing to speculate on such things. Follow? So of course I'm not trying to tell you 'what to speculate' about, or insist upon what is or isn't worth speculating about.. In fact, I don't think Ted was doing that either- just saying that such speculation probably cannot be verified practically (by available data) now or in the near "future." :)

Let me know if I'm still being unclear.

Cole

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 Post subject: Re: The ALL
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:48 am 
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cole,

Thank you for lending me that clarification and emphasising it in bold characters, otherwise I might have skipped right over the important parts.


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 Post subject: Re: The ALL
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:13 pm 
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Roland: So, with respect to the All, the One Consciousness, isn't it logical to consider that our All may be just one of many Alls, such that our All may be one cell within a greater body?

Yes, I agree, such speculation does constitute a logical/rational consideration.

My thoughts on that consideration are stated in Book 1, Chapter 31, page 271, next to last paragraph. And Book 1 chapter 32

Tom C


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 Post subject: Re: The ALL
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:07 pm 
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I know that this is an old post but I just happened to stumble upon it. I would say that it is not logical to consider that our All is just one of many Alls. That would make our All, Just a Little Bit of Everything, or Some. Some of everything is not everything, so it would make no sense to call Some, All. So when you speak of the All Consciouness, you are inherently speaking of the thing that is the sum of all "Somes". You are inherently speaking of the infinite.


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 Post subject: Re: The ALL
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:18 pm 
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Yeah right Dalace. Kind of a DUH sorta thing. Clearly if you're thinking of The All in spatial terms you could go on and on. That, then, must not be what's meant by the all. It's more like an orientation, a feel of the whole thing's awareness, a quality of some sort that can only be experienced if you're ostesibly ABLE to factor in all information, put it in that context. Cuz the fact is that, vast as it is spatially, you still ARE it.

Will


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 Post subject: Re: The ALL
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:31 pm 
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It's turtles all the way down, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down. I think turtles is the way to go, I like turtles. The All on the back of a turtle, on the back of a turtle....
Love
Bette

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