I thought I would share a little bit of my unusual experience from last night.First I have to admit that I may have,until now, self limited my LD episodes by allowing the existing scientific dogma on the subject to predominate my awareness.Specifically,the idea that to have a long and stable LD,one must be in the late REM stages of sleep.As of last night, this is no longer a concrete part of my reality.I put this here so that others can avoid the same belief trap and maybe get some feedback too.

At about 11:30-12:00 last night I layed down to sleep.I did some energy raising stuff Robert Bruce style, until I was sleepy.I turned over and started doing some visualizations and tried to have a WILD. A part of me really thought this to be a waste of good sleeping time.

A short while later,I became consciously aware in a dream bed.My dream body felt like it had it's own energy body inside of it that was stretching out at my feet.I basically OBEd from a LD.

It took several short attempts until things were stable and I had good vision.I recognized myself to be in a common staging area for my LD/OBEs,my parent's home where I grew up.I looked at my hands to deepen (don't know why this works) and was a bit freaked out to see my left hand sort of short and crimped.I just ignored this and kept on as I passed a fearful looking character who went through a wall near me.

A long story short;I flew around and made giant leaps/steps.Went through the window of a neighboring house, buzzing around the folks inside before busting out through the roof. Experimented with my surroundings (stretched tree limbs and myself while swinging)Basically,played alot instead of focusing on a healing goal that I had set.It was so long that I had to affirm my memory from time to time.

I did all of this because I have had a run on short LDs lately,so I felt like a dog off it's leash.This was the type of LD that is very stable and fluid,the kind that lasts longer but is at the expense of mental clarity/goals.[A character in a LD once told me to "not be so serious and intense if I desire to extend my time here".Sometimes too much focus has a destabilizing ,volitile effect.So I've found this advice to be true.]

My goofing off was interrupted by a gang of street thugs with axes and bats! Surprised,I flew over them and landed by one while making some joking verbal exchanges.They were not amused.I ended up next to one of them with a shirt pulled up over his mouth.I asked "what's with all this violence?" He said,"man you better stop this shit,they're gonna kick you outta here." I bombarded him with questions;who are THEY? Why? How? Do you know that I am dreaming? I have a body sleeping right now,do you too? The guy just looked at me confused then I woke up with an hour of clock time passed.

I should have kept my cool and listened to the answers!I'm kicking myself about this.This is the second or third time that I have been ejected by some moderators it seems .However,each time I have had a marathon of a Lucid before it has happened.Maybe I had worn out my welcome so to speak?

I woke up (in "waking reality")amazed because I had just layed down to sleep! I have to wonder if this happens more often in the earlier sleep stages but without memory of it . I really had to strain to recall as much as I did. Maybe in those NREM stages we are conscious but in a more disconnected data stream that doesn't recall easily in PMR?

Funny thing is that my wife had a long,intense Lucid too! Hers' was even more interesting.

There were a few guys watching/monitoring her reaction to the appearence of three black panthers that emerged from a kitten she was petting from her childhood (She didn't notice the guys at first).She passed w/ flying colors as she petted the panthers too! She said that the guys (guides?) talked and then the panthers turned into growling wolves. Again,no fear. She even went over to them and politely confronted them about it! She asked if this was the spirit of her long dead kitten and if they were creating the panthers/wolves. One said "alittle of both",the others didn't talk.(why do they do this? why are they not more direct!?)

It seems we were both tested in our dreams last night.We will be taking a Reiki class together soon,I wonder if this is related somehow?If so,I hope we passed.

Jeff it makes me feel very happy for you two to have each other to experience this with, it makes my day, thank you.
Love to you and yours,
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Thanks Bette,
It has been a work in progress,our relationship is evolving for sure.(not rosey all the time though) Discovering LDing has opened up a bridge between us. I was not very "spiritual" before this.I guess I needed the experience.

Still hoping for a mutual LD,hasn't happened yet.I had an OBE one night and tried to rouse her dreambody but she told me she wanted to sleep.The next morning she remembered nothing of it. :)

You're welcome Jeff, it's sincere, I love love in love. :)

You two are basically having an LD everyday, right? In the big picture, and All.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Good to hear from you Jeff.

"I thought I would share a little bit of my unusual experience from last night.First I have to admit that I may have,until now, self limited my LD episodes by allowing the existing scientific dogma on the subject to predominate my awareness.Specifically,the idea that to have a long and stable LD,one must be in the late REM stages of sleep.As of last night, this is no longer a concrete part of my reality.I put this here so that others can avoid the same belief trap and maybe get some feedback too."

Thanks for sharing. You are right that a lucid dream or OBE on sleep onset is not impossible, but it is much more difficult than for example 4 hours after sleep. If you had a belief that it was impossible and it got busted, great! But at the same time I don't what others to be discouraged when they most likely fail at WILD'ing at sleep onset, it is much more difficult.

I have heard of some individuals that can retain a high awareness while the body is sleeping, even in deep sleep. As I remember some very disciplined meditators are able to do this, such as some Buddhist monks. A lot more than we all think is possible with consciousness, in all it states.

I really laughed at this one "I did all of this because I have had a run on short LDs lately,so I felt like a dog off it's leash." great metaphor and I can relate :p

It's wonderful that you have a shared interest in lucid dreaming with your wife, that is the best opportunity for a mutual dream :) Keep trying.

I have tried to do shared dreaming before, no confirmed success so far. But another individual had this experience with me:
http://mortalmist.com/forum/index.php/t ... l#msg65998

Hey SS,
Good to read your reply,I'm going to read through your link tomorrow.I really like to read about other people's LDs,thanks for posting this.

About the monks; You may have read "The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep" by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche?An interesting story was told to me by someone who had a long private conversation with the author at a IASD conference.He told me that Tenzin's editor insisted on the omission of things that westerners would find immposible.Specifically,the manner in which Tenzin recieved his Dream Yoga training. It seems that his formal class was attended in NPMR,the teacher and all of his classmates!!!The next day,in PMR,the other monks would tease him if his Lucidity wasn't up to par with the other students.Mutual dreaming is not a big deal to them,it's a normal day at school!! Very inspirational...

I will keep trying with my wife but it's hard to prioritize,so much I want to experience/do :)

This from Wikipedia article on Dream Yoga http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_yoga

"Tibetan Dream Yoga is described by Evans-Wentz in his book Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines (London: Oxford University Press, 1935) as one of the six subtypes of yoga elaborated by the Tibetan guru Marpa and passed down by his disciple Milarepa. The author describes six stages of dream yoga. In the first stage, the dreamer is told to become lucid in the dream. In the second stage, the dreamer is instructed to overcome all fear of the contents of the dream so there is the realization that nothing in the dream can cause harm. For instance, the lucid dreamer should put out fire with his hands and realize fire cannot burn him in the dream. Next the dreamer should contemplate how all phenomena both in the dream and in waking life are similar because they change, and that life is illusory in both states because of this constant change. Both the objects in the dream and objects in the world in the Buddhist worldview are therefore empty and have no substantial nature. This is the stage of contemplating the dream as maya, and equating this sense of maya with everyday experience in the external world. Next, The dreamer should realize that he or she has control of the dream by changing big objects into small ones, heavy objects into light ones, and many objects into one object."

I particularly noticed the goal of eliminating all fear in the dream state.

"The primary aim and foundation of dream practice is to realize during a dream that one is dreaming. Once lucidity has been established the applications are limitless. One can then dream with lucidity and do all sorts of things, such as: practice sadhana; receive initiations, empowerments and transmissions; go to different places, planes and lokas, communicate with yidam; dialogue with sentient beings, creatures and people such as guru; fly; shapeshift, etc. It is also possible to do different yogic practices while dreaming (usually such yogic practices one does in waking state though the product and fruit of sadhana is greatly accelerated due to the learning, play and practice context). In this way the yogi can have a very strong experience and with this comes understanding of the dream-like nature of daily life. This is very relevant to diminishing attachments, because they are based on strong beliefs that life's perceptions and objects are real and, as a consequence, important. Dream yoga mastery not only assists in the complete realisation of shunyata, but also in the lila of Mahamaya. When one realises and embodies the Shunyata Doctrine of Buddha Shakyamuni and Nargajuna amongst others forded by Dream Yoga and other advanced sadhana, complete realisation is imminent and elementary."

Hmm. Sounds like what we think of as being operative in NPMR.

And, perhaps, most applicable to MBT:
"Namkhai Norbu gives advice, that the realization that the life is only a big dream can help us finally liberate ourselves from the chains of emotions, attachments, and ego and then we have the possibility of ultimately becoming enlightened."

There are NUMEROUS links in this article to complementary subjects which are all fascinating but I will leave that up to the reader to wade through. This is a fascinating subject and I found many parallels to MBT concepts.

Ramon

Ramon,
I think I will buy that book by Evans-Wentz,thanks for the tip.

BTW,speaking of the illusory,I was able to meditate in a brief LD this morning.It was a very strange experience,peaceful.Then I became fascinated with a mirror and lost lucidity as I was sucked in and "woke up". [Mirrors are strange things in LDs]I think this hints at our situation alittle. Always caught up,seduced and fascinated with transitory reflections taken to be "real".
A cause of suffering.

But they also say that answer is to have a "mind like a mirror".It does not cling to or avoid it's images,only reflects.

You're welcome Jeff.

Jeff: "But they also say that answer is to have a "mind like a mirror".It does not cling to or avoid it's images,only reflects."

Funny you mention that. That's part of the subject of one of the links from the one above.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzogchen

"Our ultimate nature is said to be pure, all-encompassing, primordial awareness or naturally occurring timeless awareness. This "intrinsic awareness" has no form of its own and yet is capable of perceiving, experiencing, reflecting, or expressing all form. It does so without being affected by those forms in any ultimate, permanent way. The analogy given by Dzogchen masters is that one's nature is like a mirror which reflects with complete openness but is not affected by the reflections, or like a crystal ball that takes on the colour of the material on which it is placed without itself being changed. Other evocative phrases used by masters[who?] describe it as an "effulgence", an "all-pervading fullness" or as "space that is aware". When an individual is able to maintain the dzogchen state continually, he or she no longer experiences dukkha, or feelings of discontent, tension and anxiety in everyday life."

Ramon

Tofu Mind.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Mmmmm ..Tofu mind..... aagghhah

http://www.nowpublic.com/health/warning ... our-memory