Hello,

I am new, still have to read the book, and this forum too, but first i have one question.

I searched for, but did not find much on this topic.

What do you think about the possibility that the global elite (illuminati) is "controlled" by or in alliance with "demons"?

Could it be, that angels protect us steadily against "demons"?

Hi Horsch, and welcome to Tom's MBT discussion group. I don't believe in angels or demons, but good luck in your quest.
Love to you and yours,
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Hey Horsch,

Welcome to the forums.

Angels and demons are just a metaphor.

It is conceivable that some people within PMR that hold considerable power may be "nudged" more often by NPMR beings than your average person. But I have no hard evidence, so I just remain open-minded and skeptical about the whole thing.

Truthfully I don't think it's all that important so I haven't devoted much time to finding out. I'm focused on growth and making better choices within my own decision space, instead of focusing on the decision space of others.

_________________
Mike

Welcome Horsch !

What brings you to MBT forum to research 'angel's and demon's" ?

For any answer to make sense, you would first need to be familiar with the concepts of My Big TOE.

The answer would be: Yes and no, maybe, depending on.. Not that useful right?

How MBT can be applied to your personal growth is much more useful, I suggest aiming for that :)

Welcome Horsch, your name makes me think of Judd Hirsch from the old TV show "Taxi".

Try doing a keyword search for Angels and another one for Illuminati and you can at least get started looking at what others have had to say on the topic.

I doubt you will find anything from Tom with those specific words "Angels" or "Demons" though, it's not really his style of communication from what I've seen in the last year and a half.

Love to you and yours,

Lynda (AeroLynda123)

Hi Horsch,
Welcome to the MBT forum.
As Msagansk says, angels and demons are metaphors, and while it MAY be possible that our "ruling elite" (and everyone else) are being influenced by negative forces (both physical and NON-physical). Just as likely would be the possibility that we are all influenced by forces for "good". Different cultures will have different metaphors to describe these influences. Many cultures believe in the great battle between "good" and "evil" or "light and darkness", raging since the beginning of time. Personally, I feel that the MAJOR portion of this "battle" is waged WITHIN ourselves. And my time would be better spent focusing, not so much on the "demons" of OTHERS, but on MY own "demons".
According to Tom and MBT our "rulers" are an exact reflection of our collective quality of consciousness and when you look around you see a pretty accurate representation of WHO we really are, (collectively) we are EXACTLY what we appear to be.
The good news is that this "reality" is functioning, pretty much the way it was intended, and "The Universe is unfoldind just as it should"
One thing that I have found is that, any answers that I find tend to be very subjective, and may only be useful to me, depending on the metaphors that I use in describing MY experience of reality. All evidence collected is usefull as DATA. This data needs to be evaluated through testing. In the end that data tends to be, just another peice of the puzzle, and usually only leads to, still more, questions. I suggest that you read the book and watch some of the vidoes on youtube, continue to collect data, and test your theories.
This is a very individual and subjective (or "relative") reality and potentially VERY different for everyone. Nobody can GIVE you the answers. You must find them for yourself.

_________________
LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

Thanks for the many answers.

Yes, I didn´t read the book yet, but i watched Toms 18 part long speech on youtube, and another radio interview, so I understand that these "angels" and "demons" are only metaphors, that is why I have put them into quotation marks. I thought that would be obvious, my fault, telling you I´m new to the topic ^^.

@Msagansk


That sounds better then my formulation.



I am skeptical, too :) I am not sure if there are any Illuminati at all; I am even uncertain if there is anything beyond PMR, anything paranormal. (If they really exist, the "elites" might just be a bunch of morons, without any magical power, but with physical power)

-->I am very skeptical because I have never experienced anything paranormal besides very vague things like on drugs, and I guess that they just played a trick on me ;). Thats why I wanted your opinion.

And I like your common idea, that it´s more helpful, to try to make "better choices within my own decicion space" and to look after my own "demons". That is a big part of my agenda, too, but on the other hand I am scared by several youtube videos and books, telling about secret societies, connected with dark forces, with cruel aims.

I am learning to look at the method of presentation of information. Is the information presented in a way that while being serious is not seemingly meant to scare you? If the main thing you are getting is "danger Will Robinson!!!" with use of metaphors that usually have strong emotions of Fear attached to them by the Belief System they come out from, then I avoid them. Tom says that our consensus Reality is a reflection of the level of Quality of Consciousness in it, or is our consensus Reality a reflection of our own Reality? I think not. There is negativity "out there" that ain't "in here" until it comes in from "out there." Avoid it, please, as far as letting it scare you because that ain't cool of them to manipulate you like that, in my opinion. :)

Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

One need not resort to fantasies about Illuminati and lizards from outer space. There is a reality that is publicly known. One cannot call it a conspiracy, but note the highlighted items in this initial description from the WikiPedia page. Even in all innocence, these ends and frequent occurrences constitute a means by which those who run things do so without the need of a conspiracy. They share a particular weltanschauung and that is all that is required. They are in effect good ol' boys who went to school together and whose parents went to the same schools and run the same group of companies or share board memberships on major corporations. They are not necessarily anything that we should fear as their interest is in the continued stability of the earth and societies. They have a proprietary interest. Rather fear instead those on the right politically who work to dismantle social institutions that support those who cannot support themselves in our society. The victims of misfortune or of our ever lowering quality of public schools.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bilderberg Group

Hotel de Bilderberg (2007), name-giving location of the first conference in 1954
Formation 29 May 1954 (57 years ago)
Membership ~150 invitees, smaller core group
Chairmen of the Steering Committee Étienne Davignon
Website bilderbergmeetings.org

The Bilderberg Group, Bilderberg conference, or Bilderberg Club is an annual, unofficial, invitation-only conference of approximately 120 to 140 guests from North America and Western Europe, most of whom are people of influence. About one-third are from government and politics, and two-thirds from finance, industry, labour, education and communications. Meetings are closed to the public and often feature future political leaders shortly before they become household names.

Because of its exclusivity and privacy, the Bilderberg group is frequently accused by conspiracy theorists of being an all-powerful secret society fixing the fate of the world behind closed doors for nefarious ends.[1] Critics of Bilderberg conspiracy theories counter that it is nothing more than a policy discussion forum and social club, which only serves as a means to brainstorm, reach consensus, and create social cohesion within the power elite of North American and Western European nations, to better promote Atlantic free-market capitalism and its interests around the globe.

Capisce?

Then there are other groups that are very definitely in existence. Whether they constitute the secret governing world order that is reputed is not necessarily true. Here is a schematic per David Icke that lists the major ones.


It is commonly said that the Bilderbergers own the corporations and Yale 'Bones' members run them.

To the Club of Rome we owe the original work done on attempting to create a computer program to predict world population growth and quality of life into the future. This was called Limits to Growth. I have a copy of their original publication of the program and the calculated results. Basically they concluded that structural aspects of society would cause a major overshoot of population beyond the limits sustainable by the earths eco systems and that a major decline of population would result.

We as a group are something of an offset to all the above in that we can see under the skirts of reality and know what is real and what is not. Enough like minded and knowledgeable individuals can provide the nucleus to assure the optimum passage into the future of our various societies. So is my opinion in any case. This is a matter of core knowledge however, not in any way a call or advocacy of political or social action. Grow your own Quality of Consciousness and reduce your own entropy.

Ted

Here is the kind of work that the Club of Rome is doing currently. This is based out of the Frederick S. Pardee Center for International Futures which is the home of long-term forecasting and global trend analysis at the Josef Korbel School of International Studies on the University of Denver campus. This per their web site. They have an extensive computerized model based upon internationally collected data which you can either work with on line or download for free. Here is the link. http://www.ifs.du.edu/ifs/index.aspx

The potential interactions and data range and country range is too large for me to even hint at here. If you are interested, go to their site and explore.

Ted

I am trying to understand why people assume angel and demons are metaphors. I don't believe them to be metaphors. If we believe there is a greater organization to all living things spirit or no spirit why would we not be open minded enough to believe that there is guidance coming from that same source with positive or negative influence. So if this forum is for the bigger picture and the search for more why be so closed to thinking anything is possible because our ego is telling us we are more well read then the idiots believe in God. Let our fear of being religious not get in the way of our search for relief in finding something greater then ourselves.

Every word is a metaphor.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

holdfast59 - angels and demons are metaphors from Christian religion. A person may meet another consciousness in NPMR. The person may think that consciousness was Jesus because of their cultural, religious background. Another person with the same exact experience may think the consciousness they interacted with was and angel, or a guide, or their Uncle Fred. It all depends upon how you pattern match your experience from NPMR back into PMR.

Because good and evil have been culturally explained as angels and demons many people having paranormal experiences pattern match to these terms. It doesn't make it a fundamental truth. It is only a subjective perspective.

I am not by any means saying anything is apparent truth sorry if I came off that way. I am just learning. I have been having many paranormal experiences in the past six months. I have always been attracted to these types of experiences but I am just trying to make sense of it all. To make a long story short I've been connected with my grandma who has pasted for the past six years and now I'm at the point where I can give full medium type reading...And I don't know where to go from this point. I am just trying to get knowledge from as many perspectives as possible. I just ordered my bigtoe from amazon..but thank you for all the responses..I am intrigued by the more logical experimentation view point the forum has. thanks again