Hi folks,

I've been interested in the MBT theory for quite a while and for the most part, find it to be plausible and very interesting. But one thing which still remains unanswered in my mind involves the idea of reincarnation into PMR, something which can be perhaps perceived as a flaw by the larger consciousness system. That is, why upon rebirth are we not given any recollection whatsoever of NPMR and the purpose of having this PMR experience?
Surely having this knowledge would vastly improve the rate of evolution on this planet and thus would also benefit the larger consciousness system, knowing the rules to the game rather than bumping into each other aimlessly. Looking over the rough course of human history it is clear we have been left completely in the dark to this larger aspect of reality (with the odd exception) and its safe enough to assume with this knowledge much needless suffering and ignorance could have been prevented.

Would love to hear what people have to say about the subject,

ta,
El Grande

El Grande,

Welcome to the forum!

Consider that if you were a teacher trying to evaluate the ability of your student, it would not be useful to allow them to cheat and have all the answers at hand. How serious could the material be taken if all involved knew everything about it? Tom has stated that we bring what we are at the being level into each experience packet. A clean intellectual slate facilitates a way for the inherent quality of the being to demonstrate itself. The idea here is to have quality of consciousness at the being level, not simply an intellectual understanding of this concept. Consider this PMR like kindergarten, it will be around as long as there are students who need it.

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Hello El Grande, welcome :)

This is done by design, it's not a flaw.

We come here to evolve, without the knowledge about the larger reality, because we can then stop pretending to be evolved beings when faced with the real challenge of acting from ones being and not some knowledge about how we are supposed to act.

Even then, it is not "safe enough to assume with this knowledge much needless suffering and ignorance could have been prevented.", we are fearful beings, it is more likely this would lead to chaos rather than order. It would be different when the individual or society is ready to make good use of the knowledge, then it would naturally come, and we would have earned it.

Lastly, if what you said was true, why would the LCS not make it so, when it "would vastly improve the rate of evolution on this planet and thus would also benefit the larger consciousness system"? One might argue that if your version of the system was so favourable, it would already be in use, thus it is very likely that your version wouldn't be favourable to evolution since it is not in use :)

Hi, thanks for the replies. Maybe I am looking at things from the wrong perspective.

Yes, you make a good point when you ask why isn't that version of the system in use, but I'd have to disagree when you say there would be more chaos than order in such a system. Much of the chaos i'd argue, comes from the clashing of perspectives, religious ideologies, fighting, politics ect. I doubt the nazis would have come to power if we all had some knowledge of why we are here. This lack of knowledge I imagine must also lead to spiritual devolution in some cases, counter-productive to the system. People often choose the wrong answers due to the lack of information, consequentially inflicting harm on themselves and others. But then again, unlike cheating on the test, mistakes are meant to be made in an evolutionary system. Its interesting to think how the world would be if the secrets of the universe were common knowledge. No doubt we'll make it one day if we survive long enough.

The Consciousness System/AUM did not invent and subsequently develop the PMR form of VR as an attempt to create an ideal system or a utopia or something likely to develop into a utopia. PMRs were invented to up the pressure for development. To increase the intensity of interaction between IUOCs. They were not developed to deliberately create 'suffering' nor will they be modified to deliberately eliminate suffering. Part of this purposeful design includes the need for them to be taken at full face value. The typical understanding that this is all there is, what you see is what you get. That is part of the functionality of PMR type VRs.

There is not absolute prohibition of understanding things differently. But the norm must be to not so understand for maximum effectiveness. The problem with thinking in the direction that you are thinking is in that the purpose for PMR is being overlooked. The purpose was never to create an idyllic and utopian experience. The purpose was to accelerate development of Quality of Consciousness and the discovery that increasing the intensity of interaction was the necessary ingredient to do so. Also that AUM shows no sign of attempting to create any kind of perfection. Rather the goal is like that in any environment subject to an evolutionary type process. Try everything and stick with those which are of the most value. Open ended as to what might be of most value rather than picking a goal and single tracked heading towards it. After all, none of us as IUOCs really dies from our experiences here. We just experience and refine our beings from that experience. If we should come to need extra help, we get it. When you return to NPMR, you will put your experience here in PMR into perspective and integrate it with your full scope of knowledge from past experience. It, this PMR, is known to be of value as effective in accomplishing its purpose of creating high quality IUOCs so a winning process is not modified at its core. You can view this whole project of creating and disseminating MBT by Tom as a little steering to the VR. It is not however intended as a major change, but rather a course correction. After all, the concept of this as a VR has been present in a very real sense since the teachings of the Buddha.

Ted

I would also add that there are many cultures now that believe in reincarnation. It has not helped developed their society any better than the ones who don't recognize the idea.

Also how would you like to be born and remember 50 spouses and hundreds of children? Would you want to remember a life where you made decisions that were less than stellar? Wouldn't that burden you and bring feelings of guilt. It is counter productive.

That saying - I have done many past life regressions. In almost all the cases it is just entertainment. In a few it was actually helpful. The first time you see yourself die violently is quite a jolt I can tell you!

FWAUs get "wiped clean" when entering a PMR, but an IUOC doesn't unless it's entropy level gets too high, correct? I have a question, Why would consciousness "delete" an IUOC as a whole if it's entropy level got too high instead of just deleting aspects of the IUOC that are high entropy in the IUOC's stored memory database and resetting it? Is the system not able to intervene with an IUOC's stored entropy level database and re organize it in a different way if it is about to be deleted? Another way to put what I am thinking would be; Why is it more efficient for the system to "delete" a very high leveled entropy IUOC rather than just re organize an IUOC's memory data and then reset it until it changes it's direction in terms of entropy? Or does something like this occur and an IUOC only gets deleted when all else fails within the current understanding of AUM at the time? ...I think I answered my own questions, but if I didn't let me know.

_________________
I eat ego's for breakfast!
Sincerely, Ego.

IUOCs that are uncorrectably descending into the high entropy 'mire' are not deleted. They are just returned to a beginner status in effect. Disconnected from their past history and bad choices. They then start climbing the ladder of development again. They become as newly created IUOCs again. This seems the best that can be done as all IUOCs are valued by AUM. Their past record is not expunged from the historical data bases however. They just lose their connection to it. They would not be able to know that it was once themselves.

Basically, you were answering your own questions by reasoning through the things as you did.

Ted

clipped from an old post from years ago:

In general, "Memory" can be defined as "a structure that has a tendency to last": even ropes and metals have a degree of 'memory'. Some kinds of rope tend to coil and tend to want to recoil to that shape if it is taken away. This and other inclinations to hold a shape, (other shapes too) vary from rope to rope. The same with metals. I understand that there is even a type of alloy now that, once shaped at high temperature, tends to want to keep it. Once cooled, you can pound it, roll it, scrunch it all up, but drop it into hot water, and: Foop! It goes back to it's "original" shape.

In computers, memory is held in the shape of a set of "ones and zeros". Google up the word in conjunction with some others, (philosophy, study, structure...) and see what you find.

When it comes to the memories of former lives, there are a whole slew of reasons that we have a hard time fetching them up. I know there are at least six. Let's see how many I can recall from, um, memory.

First off, that former life was a long time ago. Assume a person is 25 now. If he is trying to remember something from a former life, presumably that would be nearly, at least, 30 years ago. Take a moment and ask yourself what were you doing even TEN years ago. Do that now.

...It's not going to just pop up. You are going to have to dig for it, especially if you go back ten years to the day. So that was reason 1: It's so far away in time.

A second reason is a signal-to-noise type thing: The reality of 'now' is so much louder than the reality of then. Put another way: for the same reason that we can't see the stars during the day: the sun is so bright as to reduce them to invisibility. A person can get a practical feel for this: There are times when Venus is very bright, and also widely separate from the sun. During this period, which tends to last a month or two, at some point the moon will come rolling along fairly close to it. If you get up early, you can get a solid sense of where Venus is relative to the moon, its horns, etc. You can actually keep an eye on it as the sun rises, and sure enough, if your eyes are pretty good, you will be able to spot it even later in the day. Fishing up other life memories has the same feeling of remote reaching as does this Venus-viewing.

A third reason is that the fundamental structures of experience can vary radically from life to life. For instance, in your last life maybe you were an eskimo. Reports tell us that they commonly have over a hundred words for what we call 'snow'. Great differentiation in a concept (or feeling, etc) tends to encourage a strong focus there, and reduce awareness of other alternative foci. If in this life you are a Jamaican businessman, that snowy life is simply not going to be "conceivable" to your present awareness, though if you were to visit snowy lands, a warm, if spooky, familiarity may meet you there.

A fourth reason is that it can be positively distracting: Maybe you were a fanatical musician: 120 hours a weeks you pounded the keys and wrote music. Your whole life you did nothing but eat think and sleep music. Well enough and good, but in this life, you really want to broaden your horizons and might incarnate tone deaf.

There are also negative distractions (5th reason). Maybe you spent a life as an opium addict: The whole of the personality then was subjugated to this behavior. Nothing else mattered. Maybe the next life after that there was an attempt to beat it afresh, but it failed. So now, several lives totally away from that are in order as the self develops fresh personality fragments that together, later in the future, will be able to beat this problem. But to try to meet it head on now would only result in further frustration, and maybe even disaster. So remembering that life would be, for now, like taking poison.

Yet another reason related to above, but different, has to do with shock, and things like it. Many people have suffered violent shocks in past lives. This life is about this life: You have to do a lot of growing and develop a very solid "spirit" before you can revisit the time when you returned home and found, for example, your family, whom you deeply loved, murdered and skinned.

Still yet another reason, related to the snowy reason, is habits of thought, or habits of psyche. The thoughts a person thinks (feelings felt, actions acted, etc.) tend very much to be as peas in a pod, apples on a bough, or a passel of kids from the same parents: all unmistakably alike and related. Thoughts constructed from other minds and even other selves can be sort of like trying to get bubbles of oil to mix in with water. Um... say a person in this life is extreme 'right-brainy'.... a wind-blown artist type. In other lives they maybe were extreme left brain types... accountant, book-keeper, lawyer, etc. Thoughts from those lives might feel like mosquitoes to an artist.

And finally: many lives, and large tracts of almost every life, are distinctly unmemorable. Turning the soil. Rooting for grubs. Trying to keep warm and dry. Avoiding the mother-in-law, etc. .... endless studies in tedium.

But here, a little shinier: Last night on coast-to-coast AM radio program there was a psychiatrist, with the loftiest credentials, Dr. Brian Weiss. 3 hours worth of tales and instruction about hypnotic regression to past lives, generally for therapeutic reasons. You can listen to it here http://www.cjob.com/other/audiovault.html

(NOTE: this is no longer available at that site, but you can listen to Dr. Weiss on youtube)

Set the date for 11/11/09, set the time at 00:00 AM, (then 01:00, 02:00, respectively, for the further program segments), and listen up! It was a live radio show, so at the top of the hour there will be some news, and in the first hour the interviewer George Noory has some news segments and a couple quick guests before he gets to the main guest. It will be there for a couple months, so about till the second week of January 2K10.

I see. By the end of my post I figured I had it correct but wanted to post just in case. I understand it better now. Nothing actually gets erased, but rather re organized into totally different things.

_________________
I eat ego's for breakfast!
Sincerely, Ego.

Conservation of Quality of Consciousness.
Love
Bette

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Hey guys! Sorry to come late but this makes absolutely no sense to me...

How would a memory force you to think about it?

I assume that someone had to remember it to even come up with the idea! Or was that just imagination?

I mean, the whole concept is a great tool for personal growth, but is it really an unchanging truth?

This is answered pretty well in Book 2: Section 4, Chapter 18.

Two of the paragraphs that stand out to me in regards to this are-

"If a high fidelity PMR-physics model accurately represents each player, the interactions in the simulation will produce an excellent representation of how these players might interact if they existed physically on planet earth. High fidelity player models along with detailed accurate interaction specifications produce results that can closely model a given reality. The more accurate and detailed a simulation becomes, the more useful and accurate its results are - and the more memory it requires and the slower it executes. The twin problems of larger and slow can, in theory, be easily overcome with better technology- bigger, better, faster memory and computers.

When modeling the cognitive function of sentient beings, conditionals may, at the simplest level, span all possible choices and reflect the overall quality of the larger rule-set. If the sentient entity being modeled is an AI Guy, his choice of conditional options is based on an interpretation and assessment of his total experience as it has been captured by the data collection sensors and evaluated according to the current rule-set within memory."

Open up your book to that chapter and start from the beginning of the whole metaphor. I read it over many times, each time over it made more, and more sense.