Sabby,

it is good, that this approach works for you. None of us is an example how others have to live their life. Each person is unique, each experience is unique and cloning others is not a way to live life and raise QoC and reduce entropy level. In your previous incarnation on this BB you were preaching sobriety by providing your experience as an example. Board members told you time and again, that this is not a way to talk here. Medice, cura te ipsum! (Physician, heal thyself!)

Lena

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'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

Sabby,

most of them were Teacher. They were not passive, but wise. Wisdom is not a sprint relay baton, and cannot be passed on anyone. What history made of their teaching is another story. I have to repeat after Ted, that it seems from what you are writing here you are looking at those wise men from the top of your experience. Falling down can hurt a lot.

Lena

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'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

I see where you are coming from Ted, and do not get me wrong these beings are the types i hold in the highest regards. The time is different now and in my view that sort of approach would not get you very far. These are mine and your times, with different mindsets and their passive type of a stance, in my view would be ineffective in modern day society. These beings never failed, they did i think the best they could do. Their passiveness lead to their execution, which i think was a downfall, you can be peaceful with non aggression, and still be to passive. The point i was trying to make was being to passive is not in our best interest sometimes, nothing to do with creative non violent solutions, that is in our best interest, their comes a time when we must make a stand, if we are going to continue our evolution into lower states of entropy. Tom is a master of blowing people out of their belief traps with his truth, he knows this is happening, but is necessary for growth. It is good to be polite at all times, not so good that you become a doormat. How would i know who is their equal, maybe i should have added be careful of what you believe in or you might fall into a trap. IUOC acting through the constraints of the virtual brain, to lower ones entropy, is incredibly difficult and challenging, i prefer to do it as clear minded as possible. Sabby

Lena i was simply trying to make a point that sometimes it is better to make a stand for what you think is right, even if it bruises some egos that is all. The main theme in this thread was about drinking and drugging, i was just trying my best to share my experiences as best as i could, i try not to do anything that fogs my mind up. This is right for me, what anybody else does is their freewill choice. The beliefs traps that exist with chemical dependency are extreme, i have found it to be a major block in entropy reduction. Anytime you bring up you are a teetotaler their is always somebody coming to the rescue of their using. How we got to the point of defending the beings in question, is another issue all together. We interact and we learn from our experiences hopefully to reduce entropy, lesson by lesson. This is my sincere hope for all of us, it is in all of our best interest. Sabby

Sabby,

learning from experience of others doesn't require others to state all the time how good they are. More often than not this is not necessary at all. Our attention is attracted to what is important to us, or it will not be attracted to anything, since we are not ready yet. I am not a big believer in a real profit of using someone's experience. Learning comes with a personal experience, and not so many people could serve to us as an inspiration. Most of us are familiar with a parental mistake, when a neighborhood kid/cousin/classmate, Johnny or Sally, is used as an example of being a good son/daughter/student and etc. This makes children to hate this Johnny or Sally, but very seldom they wish to follow Johnny/Sally's example.

Lena

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'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

Lena, all we can do i think is to be the change we want to see in the world (object of change), our experiences in respect to how other people perceive us, in an up close and personal way, can have an effect on the people around us, rather it be positive or negative. My main goal is the same i think as Toms, and that is to nudge people towards their truth instead of somebody else`s. We can learn from other peoples experiences, in what to do, or what not to do. I am comfortable in my own skin for the most part, and i feel good most all the time, i make no apologies for that. I always suggest to people to find a way that best suits them. Evolution is a very personal process one size does not fit all.

Sabby,
I can see that. Even if they have never asked for your advice? Can I read here, that you say one thing and do opposite, since you pontificating here all the time?

Lena

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'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

Lena , that is what the intellect does, it processes the incoming data as to make a judgment. That belief trap that a lot of people fall into that say that is wrong, is just plain wrong. Please do not think i am condemning with my judgments, for that would be wrong. Remember, i did not start this thread, i was just participating, as to try and help with the question El Grande had, and with his obvious problem. Again i make no apologies for my abstinence. Sabby

Sabby,

Nobody has to appologise for his lifestyle, and this is not expected from you as well. At the same time nobody should repeatedly bring himself as an example to follow in conversation. Here we have smart people, no matter of thier lifestyle and age, and continuously throwing into their faces how they suppose to live is underappreciation of each individual and a whole group on this board, not even mentioning to be impolite.

Lena

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'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

Okay Lena, think whatever you care to. And thank you very much for your feedback. I really do appreciate it. Sabby

Indeed, American youth (teens through 30s at least) are currently enraptured with the partying lifestyle. This comes from a glorification of alcohol, as beer & liquor ads bombard the television and billboards in our towns, and as television shows like Jersey Shore equate real living with constant partying. This constant push for young people to drink is endorsed by the powerful sectors of our society, because it is correlated with tuning out and turning off, and becoming disengaged with reality.

I was seduced by this glorification, and spend most of my 20s in it. It became an actual addiction which I was using to deal with sadness in my life. This I believe is the case with many of these youths, who are filling empty holes of sadness in their life with liquor and partying. It is pitiful in the sense that I have pity for them--it is an unhealthy and counterproductive way to solve problems in life.

Resisting this comes down to your values. Jot down what you value about a sober lifestyle, and jot down what you value about partying all the time. If the former list outweighs the latter, you must be strong and hold to those values. As other people have stated in this thread, this does not necessarily mean social isolation, unless you find that it is impossible for you to socialize without partaking in the drug. It is very difficult if you are addicted: drunk and drugged folks want you to be on their same wavelength, and quite frankly, you will not be. Smokers quitting face this same sacrifice: no more smoke breaks with friends, no more long nights drinking beers and smoking cigarettes, no more cigarettes and coffee with your philosopher friends. It is a choice they make for higher benefits.

If staying clean is what your body and mind is telling you is necessary for your overall health, try and follow that for a while and see where it goes. There is a growing body of people in my generation (I am 29) who have renounced the partying lifestyle; hopefully you can find some of us.

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Everything is simpler than we can imagine, at the same time more complex and intertwined than can be comprehended--Goethe, Maxims & Reflections

Last November I started to work for a liquor store. :D

Being a social drinker (since very young), I found alcohol too readily available for my own good and being of very strong will, I made a abrupt decision to stop drinking alcohol and soft-drinks.

Now I am re-considering.

I don't believe to be addicted to anything and during these 7 months I have not felt an urge or need to drink again, but I have not experienced any OOBE or even lucid dreams since. I expected an opposite experience.

Any comments, thoughts or ideas?


Success!

I would experiment and consider all aspects, your level of self control, including Tom's guidance to abstain for the purpose of clarity.

Alcohol may stimulate PSI for you but undermine clarity. Perhaps continue to experiment with your decision space and monitor the feedback.

Hopefully someone with more direct experience with this might provide less general feedback.

You may also wish to put this question to the OBE4U.com crowd, who are entirely focused on OBE and lucid dreaming.

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

(deleted post; it was off-topic)

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If you love animals called pets, why do you eat animals called dinner?

I've been noticing lately that the environmnt that I happen to be in has a subtle effect on the nature of thinkable thoughts that are available to be: literally, one piece of ground seems to admit certain kinds of thoughts while making others unthinkable, which in another place become available while the first group fades into obscurity. These are places of nature in Montana (the state), and human-social effects are not a part of the dynamics. It is almost as each region has its own vibrational 'key signature' ( as in musical scores) and meter, and some melodies that are best aired on a cello ore lost or nonsensible on a kazoo.

Your question seems to relate to a subset of that general issue.

My general plan, if I were in a situation that I would describe as you have yours, would be to get out of town.

Failing that, I would let it be known that I have a contagious viscious disease, and was none too careful about sanitation.

The whole 'evolve by interacting with others' dynamic is real, but part of that is learning to know when to say "No. I am not of this kind of energy, and I don't wish to be."

You likely won't get to develop the moral sensibilities of Mother Teresa, nor the intellectual discrimination of a scientist, nor the sensitivities of the artist and mystic, if you are spending your off hours drinking with and drugging with and fighting with and having sex with motorcycle gangs.

We do tend to become somewhat like those beings with whom we interact. There are exceptions, but they are beyond the sensible bounds of this post.


JMO,
Montana