I was thinking about an apparent catch22 today I'd like to share. I, like many people, struggle with entropic behaviors in several domains of my life. Change in some of these is exceptionally difficult, and although I can tell I am making progress, I keep slipping up, making mistakes, hurting people, hurting myself...

The paradox is this: if you achieve "mastery" in a domain, that will give you power (i.e. you have the ability to consciously control it), but you must first get power in order to achieve mastery! How do we resolve this?

I think the trick is, we already have the power, we are simply not exercising it. Where do we get it?

Maybe it is residual from previous incarnations--i.e. inherent QOC. But what if it's not?

I think the answer lies in the fact that our consciousness is immersed in the fundamental process of evolution. In other words, the system is set up to allocate power to those who consciously make choices to evolve.

On p. 165-7 of Awakening, Tom says:



If we do not choose to be disciplined and commit to progress, there will be stagnation and neglect. If we do not choose to be selfless, we will be full of ego. If we do not choose to be courageous, we will be fearful. So power emerges simply by consciously changing our intent!

I find this similar to the Buddhist concept that we all possess Buddha mind, but fog and cover it up with our attachments to the world. Relinquish attachment with conscious attention, and unlock the light which already resides in our being.

So in my slip-ups lies the kernel of power to overcome slip-ups. Slip-ups, by their very existence, imply progress. Just gotta continually be consciously aware of them and sincerely intend to progress with love for myself and the people around me, and even love for the whole process. It's so hard, but I guess that's the whole point of bootstrapping.

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Everything is simpler than we can imagine, at the same time more complex and intertwined than can be comprehended--Goethe, Maxims & Reflections

I think you hit the nail on the head with the last word you used there. It's a bootstrapping process. You are where you are, and can improve yourself bit by bit, with conscious intention to become love. As you improve yourself and obtain more personal power, your decision space expands, and are able to take on more responsibility and make ever better choices to improve the entropy of you and the system even more.

One thing I would expand on though, is that without being consciously aware of this process and intending to become love, you don't necessarily de-evolve. Apparently this PMR is designed well enough so that even people who don't know what the game is can still make progress. They just don't make nearly as much progress as people who know what the game is and consciously make choices to evolve. I guess the feedback is so good that it helps people make the right choice, more often than not, without really understanding why.

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Mike

Very interesting this growing up s.lareck all of the struggles are just part of it. Some, mostly we create ourselves, but the other random things that happen we have to deal with also. So everything that happens to us we must deal with, with freewill, and to best evolve ourselves in PMR requires as many creative choices as we can get to choose from. This is why Tom talks so much about fear and consumption of things that shrink our reality, and how important they are to identify, so as not to shrink our reality and reduce our decision space. Once we become fearful entropy raises, we then need as many choices as we can get, and confront our fear with courage, as to diminish it so our essence can grow towards lower entropy states. Avoiding drugs, foods, negative emotions is not always possible or going to happen , but the feedback from them will always be present to let us know that they are reducing our reality. Anything that fogs my mind up i try to identify and element as much as possible, so as to stay on a path where i feel comfortable in my own skin. This has been, and still is my on going experience. For me this journey starts with a clear mind and a manageable life. Sabby

Fred,

Let me try to get across to you one more time, a few things that you are not yet understanding, judging by your comments to others. Entropy, as Tom discusses it, is with you as part of your digital being as an IUOC. It takes multiple lifetimes to reduce it through the feedback from PMR interactions. It does not happen easily or readily as we perhaps learn things intellectually during a lifetime. There is a lifetime of relearning. But what that is doing is just taking you back to the level of functionality, regarding entropy level, that you had achieved in your last incarnation, presuming good fortune. Removing the results of the typical passage through acculturation and the educational system and all of the absurdities foisted upon you by belief systems. Then, and only then, do we start to actually whittle away, as in very slowly reduce, our entropy if we are doing things right and paying attention to the feedback. This is really what Tom has said, not some kind of strange idea of mine. So it is not as you said here "Once we become fearful entropy raises". That entropy level is already there and aiding in the production of the fear. Fear can increase the expression of the existing entropy level within your life as fear, irrational behavior, anger and lashing out at others and most any other bad behavior you would wish to include. Changing our digital nature as an IUOC as to significantly reduce our entropy level requires much experience and some of it will be wrenching to our understanding. It takes that to make serious adjustments to our digital self at the being level. To hold a dying spouse or child in our arms as it departs, perhaps. Or perhaps alternatively the experience of holding a life long partner in our arms and realizing the depth to which our love for them extends in terms of wanting what they want with their free will and for their happiness, even perhaps contrary to what we want.

It is not so much that we try to consciously live so as to reduce our entropy. That is not something that we can really gauge here within our PMR lives. It is rather that we try to consciously live keeping the free will rights of others in our minds so that the free will of all is optimized. That is a doable goal, that we can understand and see clear and immediate feedback from. In comparison, trying to consciously reduce our entropy is an impossibility.

Ted

I would agree with most of what you said, due only to my direct experiences. That fear that i talk about is my problem, as it does disorganize my available data (raise entropy), as to be less productive in my ability to evolve in ways that says, this is right, this is how it is suppose to be (love states). Anything that keeps me from that goal is to me something that has to be addressed, whether it be something i consume or negative emotions that overwhelms me. That seemingly horrible grief that you describe, can in my opinion only be processed positively towards growth, with a clear mind. That kind of pain and disorganization is the worst we can endure, hopefully we can take the next level of evolution where this is greatly diminished, and no longer needed. Trying to consciously reduce our entropy is not impossible, it is a very doable thing that i am working on. I am always open to being wrong, but as it stands right now, this mindset is working like a charm for me. This all comes from my truth, from my direct experiences. Sabby

Fred,

If you choose to persist in a conception of the term entropy as applied to ourselves as IUOCs, different from what Tom states, then I cannot do less than point out that this is your conception and not Tom's as he uses it within MBT so that others are not confused by your statements, made as if you knew what you were talking about as opposed to simply expressing a personal opinion and limited understanding. This is technically known as pontificating. Speaking as if from a position of authorized authority. It would be more useful for you to say nothing here and simply try to learn from what others post, their questions and answers to them, than to repeatedly post contrary to the purpose of this board which is to explain as necessary the information provided by Tom Campbell and not deviations from that body of understanding. Contrary opinions are open to only limited expression although not disallowed.

Ted

That is fair enough, and i think you should as administrator try to clarify things that you think are not in accordance with MBT. The things i say are from my experience and my truth, that i try to correlate with MBT. They are my interpretation of what Tom is saying. I am just taking his advice and going out and finding my truth through my experiences. I may be wrong in what i say or do sometimes, and i appreciate your feedback. It always challenges me for the better. Sabby

The bolded issue is the one that seems the most central .... others come later (it seems from my view).

On this site we tend to revert to information processing models and metaphors ... and they are pretty handy since everyone these days is familiar with the basic concepts of all that. RAM, processing speed, channel capacity and hard-drive cpacity have come a long ways ... but there once was a time when these were so limited that if you had much available in the way of software, you were careful not to run too many programs at once. You'd know when you were pushing it... things would run slower or even stop altogether. The same appears to be true when running a human operating system. As we grow and become more and more filled with the ideas (software) of the local culture. Many of these have substantial emotional charges ... which means that the software is always running in the background... it never gets turned off, and it is always draining resources... especially if it is actively being used. Much of it tends to be stuff that is not really useful to us ... unexamined beliefs and belief systems, including those about self, out of which ego is woven, judgments about self and others, it goes on and on. All this stuff takes up energy which then is not available for other projects.

There is a reason why Tom and and other mystics warn about ego and belief systems!

:-)

Addressing the matter, Monroe referred to baggage, I think, in the form of beleif systems, attachments and addictions ... but he didn't get too explicit. Castenda addresses this very issue in many of his books... Journey to Ixtalan maybe being the most focused on it. Many of the chapters are titled after processes that Carlos is to engage in if he is to gain (that is, recover) enough power to 'achieve enlightenment' (there called 'stopping the world'). Some of those titles are "Losing self importance" , "Erasing Personal History", Disrupting Routines", ... here read some for yourself and see if you can make use of the ideas:

http://www.uazone.org/naph/ccarlos/vera ... xtlan.html

Another critically important idea of Casteneda's which didn't get mentioned in that book (that I recall) was the idea of "The Recapitulation" ... a process where in one methodically revisits (with his attention) every incident in his life, withdrawing his power back from it, ejecting the energies of others that remain, and then giving the memory away (in the sense of no longer owning the thing personally ...called there 'rendering it up to the Eagle', or something like that). I don't think that Carlos gives all the elements of the the full process for that in any of his books, but he does give some of them.

As you follow those instructions, you will see that energy is released. This is not a fuzzy california airy fairy 'maybe I feel something' type energy: You can literally feel the change in vigor. When large chunks get unclogged, your chakras start fizzing and a fierce fire develops in the eyes. (Then you realize, or don't, that you had better intelligently manage this new energy ... otherwise you manage to lose it once again~)

I am also going to strongly re-recommend here the book "Breaking The Habit of Being Yourself". http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-The-Habi ... 1401938086 It would be a fit companion work-book with MBT. The fellow doesn't talk about digitality or TOEsterism specifically, but he does begin with the whole double split quantum puzzle business and cites other studies and facts (all verifiable) and then moves on to give practical techniques for managing your psyche ... becoming aware of, and then getting rid of things, processes and behaviors that you don't want and then targeting and manifesting things process and behaviors that you DO want. He had a very practical approach. You can get a taste of his style by just googleing the name of the book in quotes, he's (Dr. Joe Dispenza) all over the web... youtubes, essays, reviews, and has a website.

There are other sources of energy available, but in general (and to keep this post from getting too long) it is better to learn to effectively manage the resources that we already have before acquiring more.

Montana

Oh, as an after thought it occurs to me to say:

Don't worry about becoming love, lowering entropy etc etc. Those, like happiness, are more side effects and indicators that you are heading in the right direction. Seek Truth (with your heart more than your mind), practice Justice to the best of your ability, Hone your courage (which, really, is simply a firm commitment to those other two things) ... and the rest comes along of its own.

(As always, all just my opinion~)

I think this is a very good advice to all of us.

Lena

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'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

That's a good point, I guess this is what the existentialists were reflecting when they said that we may as well take personal responsibility for our choices and make our own meanings out of life, even though the whole thing is absurd and without objective purpose. I think most people are in this situation--they don't truly believe that we should be good because God wants us to, nor do they think the whole thing is a meaningless bunch of nonsense, so they just follow the feedback, like you suggest, and make improvements in their life based on that feedback alone.



That's true Fred, those properties are simply built into some of the more destructive substances, and it's a matter of taking them and feeling short-term relief and paying the price later. But that short-term relief is just too irresistible for a lot of people because of problems regulating their emotions and brain chemicals...



That's a vivid and helpful image, thanks...ego and belief eat up energy that could be used for more productive personal growth. That explains the huge relief most people feel when they finally break free of a belief system, like Christians becoming atheists or atheists becoming open to the larger consciousness system...

I will look into the Castaneda and Dispenza material. (one nice thing about working at a university library is this type of material is always sitting one to five floors above me.)






Good advices here too, "entropy level" and "becoming love" are so abstract they are difficult to enact in day-to-day choices.

Thanks all for your input.

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Everything is simpler than we can imagine, at the same time more complex and intertwined than can be comprehended--Goethe, Maxims & Reflections

Working in a University Library! How cool is that! All those books! What an opportunity to be a clandestine scholar!

I'd build a secret apartment in the attic of the thing and be snug as a bug in a rug.

Montana

We are consciousness experiencing entities. The quality of the consciousness we experience depends on our mind / body functioning. A mind in the grip of imaginary beliefs derived from ego/fear and the effects which that fear has on our material body will distort consciousness and lots of distorted conscioussness beings would probably bring about a very unbalanced unsustainable conflicted social and physical environment.As Einstein said doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is a definition of insanity ,at least words to that effect. High entropy consciousness seems to be fairly easily led down the imaginary garden path time and again expecting that this it will be different. An old Chinese saying states that if you stay on the path you will get where you are going.

Yeah I wish! It sounds romantic like that! Instead, I work all day to facilitate others' learning, which is rewarding, but I'm often envious and I want to be on the learner side! :~P

It's not only access to the books, although that is a huge benefit and I always have a nice stack at home. But it is also full text access to scholarly databases, being able to read new and old research, that is a huge, "unlisted" benefit of being a librarian.





You're absolutely right there al, I can't tell you how many times I make a mistake, regret it, and each time the opportunity to make the mistake again comes, repeat it. But it's hard for us high entropy folks to tell that the path is imaginary, it just looks so darn appetizing!

In their book The Tao of Sobriety (http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/48176774) Gregson & Efran propose that our mind is a space in which thoughts happen, and for addicted people (which is merely a particular expression of high entropy consciousness) the executive committee of that space is dominated by negative voices calling for unhealthy choices, and they have a million tricks up their sleeve--as any addicted person knows. Repressing them (forcibly shutting them off) is not the correct approach; rather, it is to hear them out, and appoint a "mental manager" to make the final call.

This is a long-term process, not an overnight thing, because that manager will be overruled more times than you can count. But gradually, you develop the capacity to follow that manager. I've been in recovery for about 2 years now (with a handful of relapses) and I'll tell you what, it is not easy. But I'm gradually starting to hear my manager's voice more and more, and hopefully, will continue to do so as I progress. I love that proverb, it's good to check where our paths are heading and if we actually want to go there.

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Everything is simpler than we can imagine, at the same time more complex and intertwined than can be comprehended--Goethe, Maxims & Reflections

I would say that there you have an example of what Tom has explained, and I have repeated, about how long it takes to really reduce entropy. Directly observable within ones self. Not concealed by intellectual learning, which is ultimately superficial when pitted against being level disorder. You know all the intellectual arguments, but still your 'manager' you set up loses the argument so often. It takes all that effort to reduce something within your mind that happens as a propensity. All that effort and it fights you all the way. Next life it will be all that easier, but still a problem to you, until eventually it will have been removed from your digital IUOC as a propensity that sits there as a disorganized bit of code, ready to take you down that path.

This is actually the problem that we as IUOCs face with every bit of less than perfect coding within our digital beings. It does not change easily like an intellectual change can occur. It still remains as a glitch at being level, ready to rear its head again in the next life until multiple life times expunges it or modifies it into a more functional ability to make decisions at the being level.

I state this as not to be discouraging to anyone as to feel that it is not worth while to attempt to change, to fight against the seductive bad choices of life. Just to make it clear that it is undesirable to fall into hubris and self congratulation, thinking that so much progress at entropy reduction has been made as we are able to much more readily work our way back to levels that we have achieved in past life times. It is then that the increment of gain that we are here to make actually begins. It is much like tumbling stones together in a slurry of abrasives and water as is done in rock tumbling to produce polished semi precious stones. It takes a long time and a succession of finer abrasives with clean water. Eventually, after multiple changes of abrasives and water (as lifetimes of interactions between IUOCs with the abrasive supplied by the PMR ruleset), we begin to achieve a shiny reflecting surface on the most common old gravel out of the rock pile. Here is a link if you have no experience of rock tumbling. http://geology.com/rock-tumbler/ To give you an idea of why this metaphor or analogy is not a bad one.

Ted

Well Ted once again you encourage me to congratulate myself for the change i have made at the being level. Looking down stream of 20+ years of continually and consciously trying to balance my negative emotions with positive ones. I now know beyond any doubt that we follow our intent whether it be positive or negative, this has been and still is my on going experience. This is where the materialist are just plain wrong, they think in terms handed down by Darwin, that we have no control over our evolution. We can change our essence and our biological platforms with intent in just one lifetime, believing we have to wait as long as Darwin said to make changes is just plain wrong. But for them it would be right because they are not open to change, they disregard using focus intent, and they stay stuck in that incredible slow cycle. Evolution is very slow but not anywhere near as slow as the materialist think. I always try to encourage people to be positive and you will follow that INTENT, for that is where the real POWER is, and we all have it. We just freely give it away to fears and beliefs. Do not get me wrong Darwin was right on about a lot of things, and had a very good theory, just an incomplete one. Sabby