A few questions

I have been meditating for about 7 years with and without the aid of tool's like the Gateway series from the Monroe institute, I have never heard voices in my head or sensed any beings or helpers. I have not had one OOB that I can recall, but what I do have is a very calm and quiet mind. I don't worry about anything except maybe my 7 year old son from time to time, I don't have any religious beliefs other than I know we come from somewhere. I have read the MBT trilogy.

So can someone tell my helpers the coffee break is over already?

Has anyone on this board besides Tom actually experienced NPMR?

Is there a way of getting any help from others? I think I understand what Tom says that it has to be done all on your own but even he had help from Robert Monroe.

Was I maybe a cat in my last life and this is a first go at being human? can you/someone actually tell?

Just Curious

Thynes

Thynes: So can someone tell my helpers the coffee break is over already?

Tom: I visited your guides (there were two) and as you suggested they were not paying attention nor were they particularly interested in doing so. Their performance is now under review and it is likely that they will be replaced (that is the typical outcome) -- perhaps removed from this line of work altogether or retrained -- on a long shot, they might be reprimanded and sent back to you. Guides, like anyone else come in all sorts and at various levels of competency. (If any other readers feel they might have the same problem you can put in a request for a review yourselves. Direct you request to the Big Cheese.) You should find your guides to be more helpful in the near future.

Don't expect a linear string of words -- communication is telepathic and you will get whole paragraphs or whole thoughts at a time. Strings of letters and linear arrays of individual words is a PMR thing and pose an awkward restrictive format in NPMR. Look at the advice given to Cherie -- Same topic ("Spiritual & personal growth"), "Cheries' progress", page 3, about 4 posts down - similar, but more detailed advice is elsewhere in the forum.

Thynes: Has anyone on this board besides Tom actually experienced NPMR?

Tom: If you take the time to read these boards you will know the answer to that one is "yes", many other discuss their experiences in NPMR here. However, describing NPMR experiences Is not the main focus here, so you will just have to read lots of posts to dig that information out.

Thynes: Is there a way of getting any help from others? I think I understand what Tom says that it has to be done all on your own but even he had help from Robert Monroe.

Tom: You really don't need much help from others - actually there is not much others can do for you except give you incentive and encouragement and perhaps explain what you are doing (mostly attitude, perspective, and expectation) that is blocking your progress - and you can find all that here.

Thynes: Was I maybe a cat in my last life and this is a first go at being human? can you/someone actually tell. Just Curious.

Tom: The fact that you were "just curious" could be an indicator :-)

Tom C

Tom, love the humor. Sometimes I have to laugh at myself for being so inept at the psi stuff. I think you're right about the learning experience. It's difficult for others to help when NPMR contact is such a personal experience. I liken it to stretching muscles you've never used before.

Remember when you first tried to learn a new physical task, like wiggling your ears, or whistling? I remember when it was really hard to learn those things. No matter how hard you tried all you did was move your eyes around or spray your sister with those first futile attempts? Yeah, some pretty funny memories in those ancient corners of my mind.

I finally learned how to whistle, but never did figure out how to wiggle my ears. Anyway, perhaps developing some psi abilities may be like that too. Only, psi stuff is really different from performing physical skills. Let's say you're not a natural at this kind of thing. If you get lucky and and just happen to "do the right thing", then presto, it's just there, it happened. Maybe the resulting thing that happened was so unique and so weird and so "Wow" that you don't really remember what you did just before the weird thing happened. Also, if this is your first attempt to perform such a psi event, you don't have anything to compare it with.

Now let's say some time goes by (again you are not particularly good at this). Maybe it's quiet a bit of time. :-) Anyway, one day, presto, another really weird thing happens. Now you've got something to compare it with. Even if the weird thing was really different than the previous really weird thing that happened a long time ago, this might be just what was needed to jog your memory. Now you remember the prior event, and maybe even what you did just prior to "causing" that event.

The point here is - don't give up. Pulling one's self up by the bootstraps is quiet an apt description. Because, it's all up to you and it isn't easy (at least for most of us). But once it happens, it's really quiet an experience. Surprising things, sometimes shocking things will be made available to you.

If I were pressed to describe what I did in those situations, I would have to give you a metaphor. And that might not mean anything to you. I could say, perhaps, that I "half tried", or that I tried without really trying. Or that I formed a question or intention in half of my mind. Or that I split my consciousness in half. That I was here in PMR with half of my mind forming the question or intent, and then shifted my attention to the other half to receive information or project my intention to the other half of my consciousness. I know, I know. This is sounding very weird. But maybe for some of you reading this, you may know exactly what I mean, or it may give you a clue about what you need to do.

Good Luck and keep "half trying".

Tom ---Rock On!!! and thank you very much for checking on and answering these items, I have a world more questions on the helpers you checked on like how,what when but I wont ask yet :) I am going to meditate and will be looking forward to a change in my progress, hopefully now I can eventually find out these questions myself.

Again, thank you, thank you, thank you!

The cat thing(lower formed animal?) was one of the only thing I could think off that explained why I never had any of the experiences the majority of people I have talked with are having. I thought maybe you have to run through the human trial a few times before you get to a certain progress? Of course I don't have a clue on this , just a guess.

Have a great evening.

Thynes

Thynes,

Being less evolved than others is not your problem. Get into one of those quiet still point consciousness states and let your mind be free. Proffer an intent and without any expectations accept whatever comes without judgment or analysis. Continue to do this for some months. With new guides to help you out, in time, you should begin to make satisfying progress.

Tom C

I need Tom to check on my guides as well. I think someone missed a memo and I never got assigned any. The Big Cheese probably got his job via nepotism and is doing just enough to not get fired.

Tom: (If any other readers feel they might have the same problem you can put in a request for a review yourselves. Direct you request to the Big Cheese.) You should find your guides to be more helpful in the near future.

Quamta: In order to put such a request one would have first had to become sentient in NPMR or otherwise there's no way to be able to send the message, isn't it?
I don't know about my guides, but my astral projection attempts have been failing for almost nine years (when I first read about it in a book and decided to try). I would regularly try to astral project by relaxing my muscles and quiescing my mind (I would imagine a lightning and would use the "shhh, let's wait until the thunder sound gets here" as a trick in order to do it), I would get to deep relaxation states where I could feel great, absolutely relaxed and, at the same time, extremely lucid. However, that never allowed me to feel the vibrations and separate from my body. I could only do that through semi-lucid dreams, through them I could clearly feel the separation process, but it was an extremely blurry experience, where I couldn't control movement and was unable to see anything, I just felt as if I wass pulled by a great energy and speeded uncontrallably to the point of feeling dizziness. Those experiences were not only unusual and difficult to accomplish (and bear) but also totally useless and got nothing out of them.
As years went by, my keen interest in astral projection dissipated little by little due to poor results and the disproportionate effort and time I had to devote. Nowadays I am beginning to try to do it again but, due to some back problems, lying on bed face up makes me quite uncomfortable and that way (with my back muscles strained due to tension) it's very difficult - if not impossible - to get a good relaxation. Trying to meditate sit down is way worse. The best position to avoid back pain is lying on a side, or even fetal position. However, these, while very comfortable for sleeping, are not nearly as good to get deep meditative states as lying on your back is.

Okay, let's go back to the main topic: helpers. Sometimes I have felt such a need to find a solution out of this that I have requested their assistance in various forms: from the very well known "I deeply desire the help and cooperation of those individuals whose wisdom, development and experience are equal or greater than my own" to self-made mental requests of all sorts. Either there are no guides, or my attempt at requesting their assistance is so poor that they don't even notice. They may even blocking my OOBE attempts and that's why I am completely blind in those semi-conscious OOBEs, although I believe this to be far fetched.

In any case, my meditation & OOBE success has always been very limited, to the point that I am beginning to avoid it and trying to do a different kind of meditation consisting in going through life trying to dissolve my ego and all that. To be honest, I'd like to have full capacity to get into deep relaxation/meditation states and, if possible, having fully conscious OOBEs (and not those "I am detaching from my body and I can feel it but I am starting from the dream state and everything is so blurry that I cannot even see or do anything") and, if possible, beginning to interact with NPMR. Could there be something blocking my experience (i.e. may I have been banned from experiencing NPMR, the OOBE state, etc.)? Do I even have any guides?

Hi,

Tom said: I visited your guides (there were two) and as you suggested they were not paying attention nor were they particularly interested in doing so. Their performance is now under review and it is likely that they will be replaced (that is the typical outcome) -- perhaps removed from this line of work altogether or retrained -- on a long shot, they might be reprimanded and sent back to you. Guides, like anyone else come in all sorts and at various levels of competency. (If any other readers feel they might have the same problem you can put in a request for a review yourselves. Direct you request to the Big Cheese.) You should find your guides to be more helpful in the near future.


pman: That's interesting. I have been partially aware that helper came and went out of my life... I always thought that I did something wrong or was not 'good' enough. Maybe it was just the ego wanting to blur my perception and helper just went on others business. Btw, I can wait to read about ego in MBT.

Thank you,
pman

Tom, can guides manifest physically as a person/animal/thing in our lifes?

To all,

Tom answered a significant request, found a real problem and performed a real service for Thynes. In the process, he demonstrated that this checking on guides can be done and that there can be real problems. After all, our guides are just some of us taking a turn serving in the Cosmic Soup Kitchen and you know how hard competence and personal responsibility is to find in the general population. Then he explained how we can do it, request a check on our guides for ourselves, if we believe that our guides are not really paying attention. He did not do it on the basis that he was opening a request line for this service. He did it to teach us. Remember the bit, teach a man to fish and he eats for life, give a man a fish and he comes back tomorrow wanting grits and hush puppies to go with the new fish he now expects from you daily (or whatever you Yankies among us eat with fish).

A famous general, whose name I do not recall (sic transit gloria mundi), made an observation that you should never give an order (think for others) unless absolutely necessary and you are willing to give it as appropriate from then on. Tom took the risk of making a statement (giving an order) but cannot provide this service repeatedly when we need to and the goal is learn to do so ourselves, now we know that we can and how.

I know that many of the comments above were intended to be humorous. But in fact, many of us (all) really have been receiving information from guides for long periods, a lifetime, but we are adept in not noticing their input. A lot of things, feedback, are subtle and non verbal. It's like finding out that it is harder to cut against the grain of the wood than it is to cut with it. The lesson repeated until we catch on. They can teach you the right way to live with great subtlety or with the Georgia mule treatment of a sharp blow to the side of the head as they find necessary from your hard headedness and persistence in doing things the wrong way. This kind of thing is easier to get across than words and feedback is constant in our lives, especially when we do stupid things. Been there, done that. And as Tom has pointed out, guides vary in their approaches, including over time, just as we vary in the extent that we pay attention and hopefully learn to recognize more of their interaction. They are not fantastically superior beings than us and they serve more than one of us, normally. Tom has explained about this before in these forums. They are selected to be responsible and suitable for the job and relatively superior to those they guide. But as always, AUM has a large element of good enough to get along with within its functioning. But all in all, we are much more likely to not be paying attention to them than for them to not be paying attention to us. You might find a point of contact by paying attention to more than just trying for clear verbal contact in meditation. There is more than just this form of interaction.

Tom gave the title of our local head man as the big cheese as part of the humor in MBT. But he is not so local and has great responsibilities as described in MBT. We should all hope that he is doing his job because he stands between us and the bad actors that Tom has recently mentioned as well as the general smooth running of our little corner of Reality. And I have it on good authority (Tom) that he gained his position by major service and brilliant functioning.

Regarding guides manifesting themselves 'physically' in our lives. This is not likely to happen. With the great difficulty of establishing this semblance and keeping it a secret, available only to you, why should they. And some children are known to have invisible friends. There are however many who would be willing to for instance, send you a prayer cloth for a small, free will, contribution. And my dog does believe that it is his responsibility to let me know when it is time to get up, go to bed, and above all, cook food. My guides did give me an brief image once of a Bear, a Beaver and a Wolverine, as a way to think of them. As much in humor as anything. There is more than one way to guide someone and humor is certainly included.

Ted Vollers

JoshM:
I think someone missed a memo and I never got assigned any.

Ted:
But in fact, many of us (all) really have been receiving information from guides for long periods, a lifetime, but we are adept in not noticing their input. A lot of things, feedback, are subtle and non verbal.

Lena:
You can start paying attention to a coencident, to some small and not necessary significant things, issues, and events. They are really small most of the time. This is why one should be patient and be aware of anything and everything around. You don't have to search for them or make a special effort to find coincident. For instance, you read a psychology book. In an introduction an author is talking about a new meditation technique. Later in a day you pick up your newspaper and see an article about the same technique. It is a time to pay attention. It is a very subtle message for you. It is your choice to pay attention to this message or not. It can reappear in a week, a month or a year again. It can be in a different form now. Nobody can tell you - it is a time to think and not only to look, but to see. This is a message for you, and only you should learn to recognize it.

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

Ted and Lena,

Thank you, I do appreciate your helpful contribution here -- right-on to both of you.


TobyH,
Consider everything and everyone you interact with your teacher. There is likely to be opportunities for you to learn generated by each of them. The more you interact with someone and the more challenging the interaction, the more they probably have to teach you. For example, For most of us, our spouses and children are our most consistent and powerful teachers -- they give us opportunity by the basket full to grow up and let go of ego. Then there are parents, friends, bosses, and neighbors -- the ones we love and the ones we detest -- all provide wonderful opportunities for us to use our free will to express a higher quality intent with a better choice. Everything you interact with is your teacher and some of those may be nudged from time to time by your guides to provide you a specific opportunity, but, by definition, those we call guides here are resident in NPMR.


Quamta: I am beginning to avoid it and trying to do a different kind of meditation consisting in going through life trying to dissolve my ego and all that.
Tom: I think that is a good idea. Getting the cart in front of the horse usually leads to more frustration than progress. Also mediating is equally possible in almost any reasonably comfortable position or environment. That you have difficulty in some but not others is an artifact of habit and conditioning - nothing else. If you keep trying, those that don't now work will begin to work just fine.

Tom C

Ted & Tom:
I actually thought Tom was joking about checking on the guides. My post was just a tongue-in-cheek joke that was all in good fun, since I thought Tom was joking in his reply. I hope it didn't come across as mean spirited.

Lena:
That was great advice you gave, I actually do notice little things like the example you gave, but I will be on the lookout for them even more now. In my experiences, something will pop up that I will learn about and then for the next week or so it seems like I am hit with more information randomly. I have noticed this phenomenon increasing somewhat in the past few years, probably because I am looking out for it now.

JoshM,

No problem Josh. Your humor was taken just as you intended it -- If we let ourselves get so self-serious that we can't have some fun, cut up a little, and communicate with humor, we become stiff and ossified. Your humor is always welcome. Be it misguided or on target is not so much the issue - as always, it is the intent that counts.

The way we joke and what we find humorous is more of a window to our soul than anything else I can think of. Want to take a quick measure of the quality of an individual or of a culture -- find out what makes them laugh.

Tom C

Tom:
Consider everything and everyone you interact with your teacher. There is likely to be opportunities for you to learn generated by each of them. The more you interact with someone and the more challenging the interaction, the more they probably have to teach you. For example, For most of us, our spouses and children are our most consistent and powerful teachers -- they give us opportunity by the basket full to grow up and let go of ego. Then there are parents, friends, bosses, and neighbors -- the ones we love and the ones we detest -- all provide wonderful opportunities for us to use our free will to express a higher quality intent with a better choice. Everything you interact with is your teacher and some of those may be nudged from time to time by your guides to provide you a specific opportunity, but, by definition, those we call guides here are resident in NPMR.

TobyH:
This rings very true to me, Tom. That's awesome. I grew up being told guardian angels surround me, or God is always there to hear me and help me. Stereotypical religious babble. But I always thought the best guides, advice and learning comes from the beings in this PMR. It's the biggest challenge that brings the best immediate feedback. It's not always what I expect, but with the correct vision, it ALWAYS leads to growth.

I'm sure I have guides, and I trust that if I do my job, they're doing theirs.


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