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Discussion and Explanation of the Writings of Tom Campbell: The Paradigm Changes Here

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:00 pm 
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I was wondering about the experience of "clicking out"
I found these mentions of it.
Justin wrote:
The spikes work perfectly in keeping me from clicking out or falling asleep. From my experiences, that line between being "out" and coming back around is the point where "things happen". It is not easy to hold of course. The spikes tend to bring me too far out sometimes and sometimes I miss them, but it is a great tool for practice and experience with that state. It is the mind awake, body asleep state. This of course is just my experiences with it.
Anyway, something to consider.http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&p=38316


Sainbury wrote:
What you describe (losing consciousness) is called "clicking out" by TMI (The Monroe Institute.) The explanation is that your consciousness cannot process the information you are getting in NPMR so you "click out." viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7422

kroeran wrote:
The shambala method I learned is to just sit and pay attention to the out breath and this process of the mind clicking out into an unconcious dream state, the change itself being non-conscious, then waking up to the room and conciousness a few moments or minutes later, and noting this by saying "thinking", then returning to lightly trying to pay attention to the out breath again. Back and forth. Over time, the process puts you in the room with your breath more and more. It can be startling to learn how much of our lives are passed in an unconcious dream state. [I would recommend other readers to review all of EventHorizon's excellent postings for greater context to this comment]https://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7241&p=57975

Sainbury wrote:
Ivan - are you truly falling asleep or just "clicking out?" Do you wake up in an alert way as soon as the binaural track is over? This probably means that you are in NPMR but just aren't ready to participate in a conscious way yet. Staying conscious in NPMR is kind of the next meditation challenge after you get past all the physical sensation distractions.http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5415

Sainbury wrote:
The "falling asleep" is called "clicking out" by The Monroe Institute. It is a common problem. I do it sometimes as well. It is when you are focused on the NPMR (Non Physical Reality) data stream but your conscious mind cannot process the information. So that part of your awareness shuts off for awhile.
Lindahttp://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6779

Ryan wrote:
As I'm progressing towards the point consciousness state, I tend to lose consciousness... or as some would say, "click out". Then I'd click back in 10 - 15 minutes later.
Does anyone have any tips in order to keep ones consciousness from fading as you get deeper towards the point consciousness state?
Is it really just a matter of keeping your mind active while the bodily sensory input fades?http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5979

Justin wrote:
You may be falling asleep or you may be "clicking out". I would say skip finding a teacher unless some synchronicity lands a teacher on your path (just my personal opinion). Express a clear intent as you begin each meditation that you would like to receive guidance with your meditation practice. Make sure that you understand what it is that you are ultimately seeking.
Falling asleep and clicking out is perfectly normal by the way - just keep pressing on (if that is your desire).http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7675&start=0

Sainbury wrote:
I know what you mean about just floating in the void. Sometimes it is hard for me to hang on to that state without going into clicking out or dreaming. I spend a part of almost every meditation doing some kind of healing work. That helps break the meditation up.http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5413

Seven wrote:
Monroe called it "clicking out." Being half awake and half asleep, for me anyway, can lead to the hypnagogic state, which may actually be a window to NPMR, but I'm not sure. http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2881&p=7009


1)Does Tom speak about this phenomenon/non-phenomenon? Is there a better MBT wording to search for?
2)Does anyone get a "bliss wave" rolling over them after they come back from clicking out? (especially the first time?)
3)Can anyone explain phenomenologically what happens the seconds before and after the click out?

Nirvana - The word literally means "blown out" (as in a candle) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana
MCTB 15. Fruition
Daniel Ingram wrote:
This is the fruit of all the meditator's hard work, the first attainment of ultimate reality, emptiness, Nirvana, God or whatever you wish to call it. In this non-state, there is absolutely no time, no space, no reference point, no experience, no mind, no consciousness, no nothingness, no somethingness, no body, no this, no that, no unity, no duality, and no anything else. Reality stops cold and then reappears. Thus, this is impossible to comprehend, as it goes completely and utterly beyond the rational mind and the sensate universe. To “external time” (if someone were observing the meditator from the outside) this lasts only an instant. It is like an utter discontinuity of the space-time continuum with nothing in the unfindable gap.

Thanks,
~D


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:56 pm 
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For me... and it is of course completely subjective... it goes something like this:

I am getting into a good meditative state, the sense of having a body has faded, I am focused on some other thing (mantra, mandala, focus point, etc)... I begin to get bits and chunks of what I tend to call "hypnogogic blips" or dreamscapes (seemingly random chucks of nonsense - similar to when we first fall asleep)... and then poof, it's lights out. I suddenly regain awareness later. If I was listening to a binaural beat, I often snap back to awareness just before the track begins to end. The sensation is not the same as having slept - there is not the same groggy feeling afterwards. There is a distant sense that something happened, but I just can't seem to remember or put my finger on what it was.

Based on what you quoted by Daniel Ingram, I suppose it could be the same thing. In my experience though, clicking out does not feel like a destination and does not leave me feeling any more grounded or energized. Now, being in a void state or what Tom refers to as point consciousness does tend to feel good, refreshing, etc. When I click out, it feels more like a goof than anything substantial. For me, it is a sign that I let my awareness drift a little too far. It is maybe something like letting my mantra sing me into unconsciousness on accident - as apposed to letting the mantra occupy my intellect while I maintain a sharp awareness.

Tom has mentioned clicking out in several of his videos... I can't seem to find any right now.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:32 pm 
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Here is how it happened to me after first path. I was stuck in the stage of review for a couple of years and had ample chances to experience the details. I did not experience this level of detail every time, only when very focused. MCTB 16. Review
Phenomenological Description-
I would be sitting in the sauna and get to the stage of EquanimityMCTB 11. Equanimity(point consciousness) then I would feel the heat arise and pass away; get more intense then peak and fade more quickly than the build up (This was slow for me, it builds for like 2 - 3 seconds then passes away quicker like 1-2 seconds). at the bottom of the pass away it would hit bottom with a *thump* into a barrier that was solid but had some give to it like packed dirt. Then consciousness would fade slowly to almost gone and then fade back and this would happen again - Heat arises and passes away again, *thump* , fadeout again, on the last one the *thump* would be a breaking through the barrier into cessation, nothing, totally gone. The experience coming back was instant, consciousness was back, moment to notice, strong in breath and the bliss wave would roll over me. The bliss wave would be stronger if I had not done this for a week or so.
Once I started the stages to second path I could no longer do this. This is standard until the second path Fruition.

Has anyone else lost their ability to "click out"? Or is it constant?

Thanks Justin for the response
~D


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:09 am 
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Dreamwalker,

All of these subtle gradations of experience are just the same kind of thing as the concept of chakras (not a universal or why are there schools with different numbers of chakras defined) or the concept of the 'silver cord' attaching our bodies to our non physical OOBE 'body' or the experience of 'vibrations' and kundalini moving along one's spine and the 'circuit'. They are not universally experienced as they are not fundamental to experience. They may occur, especially if one expects them to occur as part of the subjective nature of experience. They are part of beliefs about things rather than part of the ding an sich. But one can get past all of them to simply Intend the changing of a data stream.

The same goes for the concepts of enlightenment and nirvana. After 'enlightenment', one still puts ones pants on one leg at a time. Is it not attributed to the Buddha that he stated that he attained or received absolutely nothing from anuttara samyak sambodhi or unexcelled complete awakening? These are concepts based upon what are basically mystical metaphors as what is available until one gets to the point where one can put these experiences into the metaphors of science as Tom has done. Tom does not get into such perceptions as outside the purposes of his work of changing the scientific and social paradigm from physicality to Consciousness as the basis of reality.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:50 am 
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Ted Vollers wrote:
Dreamwalker,

All of these subtle gradations of experience are just the same kind of thing as the concept of chakras (not a universal or why are there schools with different numbers of chakras defined) or the concept of the 'silver cord' attaching our bodies to our non physical OOBE 'body' or the experience of 'vibrations' and kundalini moving along one's spine and the 'circuit'. They are not universally experienced as they are not fundamental to experience. They may occur, especially if one expects them to occur as part of the subjective nature of experience. They are part of beliefs about things rather than part of the ding an sich. But one can get past all of them to simply Intend the changing of a data stream.
I started to "click out" during meditation...I had no idea what it was and no previous beliefs around them.. I searched here and found little that explained it. I was interested in the phenomenon and so when I found a description of what I was experiencing it was educational to say the least. I wish explore the the possible explanations of this phenomenon of which I propose one possible interpretation.
Ted Vollers wrote:
The same goes for the concepts of enlightenment and nirvana. After 'enlightenment', one still puts ones pants on one leg at a time. Is it not attributed to the Buddha that he stated that he attained or received absolutely nothing from anuttara samyak sambodhi or unexcelled complete awakening? These are concepts based upon what are basically mystical metaphors as what is available until one gets to the point where one can put these experiences into the metaphors of science as Tom has done. Tom does not get into such perceptions as outside the purposes of his work of changing the scientific and social paradigm from physicality to Consciousness as the basis of reality.
Ted

Buddha received absolutely nothing from unexcelled complete awakening. If I may offer my explanation - When the illusion of ego is deleted nothing is received. When fear/stress is gone, nothing is received. When all that is, is realized as being love and always was love, nothing is received. Enlightenment does not "get" you anything, it is deleting the things that are not who you truly are. It is seeing clearly without filters of fear, separateness, ego.
pg 370 MBT "Now you not only know that evolving your consciousness is the purpose of your existence,but also how to fulfill that purpose by becoming fearless, humble and compassionate" - Tom
Thanks for the feedback Ted,
~D


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:07 am 
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A worthwhile comparison. But as I said, Tom does not get into this kind of conceptualization as the idea of enlightenment. The process of entropy reduction and improving the quality of our consciousness is a never ending process requiring multiple life times. It involves the 'training' of our digital base as an IUOC existing within the LCS as a part of AUM. As is not out of line with Buddhist concepts of being able to reach enlightenment based upon 'merit' acquired in previous lifetimes. In Tom's conception, there is no such thing as a one lifetime process with the sudden flipping of a switch that turns of the 'enlightened' sign over one's head. There is instead a continuous process of training of one's basic being to produce better interactions with others and subjective responses to the incoming data stream from what ever VR or as a part of AUM one is participating in at the moment via their IUOC.

Ted


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