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Discussion and Explanation of the Writings of Tom Campbell: The Paradigm Changes Here

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 Post subject: Reincarnation numbers ?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:44 am 
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I just ordered the triology so forgive me for asking questions not in the books 'code' and questions probably easy to answer if I had read the books ;)
What is your response to the mathematical equation that there is more people alive now than have ever died in the history of the human race so as far as the equation goes it is impossible for reincarnation to be true? I know by reading books by Weiss and Newton that there are many other places where 'we' can come from but I thought I'd ask the opinion of the learned here,
thanks

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:18 am 
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Peter,

Between the fact that there are more than just one PMR and that we can walk and chew gum at the same time (parallel process more than one experience at a time), this is meaningless as a limitation.

Ted


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:04 am 
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Ted, thanks for the reply.
This was the conclusion statement by one of the hosts disproving reincarnation, in his eyes, following a segment I watched on a Prime Time morning tv show here in Australia. Someone had been reporting on researching a past life. I like to see the reply like yours to these questions because these are the questions that somebody like myself, not long ago, would have asked first from a skeptical stand point.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm 
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I have an experimental design to make reincarnation testable, and therefore scientific in this PMR. I and others much more in tune than I believe that DNA holds the information from life experiences, if I understand those others correctly. I believe this as I believe that thoughts are things, that every thing matter, and that everything is matter which I now understand to be true only in this PMR.

Get long term funding, collect DNA and life narratives from participants now, store it. Wait a particular period of moon years (a term a professor just used in class) a generation perhaps, and start getting DNA from the new set of participants to check for matches.

This is based on my assumption that each human has a unique set of DNA, that life experience data adds to but does not change DNA, and finding a match in a new generation will indicate recycling aka reincarnation.

Now all we need are genetic scientists and funding (so important in this PMR), I think enough individuated units of consciousness (iuoc) would sign up to participate. Interest in reincarnation will attract those that have that in their reality so I figure a good chance for matches to start occurring at some point.

How's that sound, scientific ;)?

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Bette

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:36 pm 
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Bette,

Perhaps the best evidence reported for reincarnation is that by Ian Stevenson and his studies of children around the world who spontaneously report information on their recent past life at an early age, typically as they first start to talk. There are other researchers. I won't begin to go into this in any detail. Take a look at this and then reconsider your plan. Your DNA is related to the rule set of PMR and that of your parents. See the post that Tom and I made in collaboration recently regarding our virtual reality beings and including DNA as relates to a VR. And exhibiting birthmarks matching wounds of your supposed previous life history as many of these children did is not a DNA matter. At least at a level we are capable of dealing with. An internet search will bring up extensive information.

Of course, your wink at the end may have meant that this was more a joke than serious suggestion.

Ted


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:36 pm 
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Hi Ted,
Yes, I will keep reading to gain better understanding, I'm very close to finishing book 2. My wink indicated that I think my design meets PMR standards for a scientific test, an ability to measure something and say yes this supports that, or to falsify reincarnation for the scientists in PMR. A testable theory allows scientific research to be funded, scientific research on reincarnation makes it more easily allowed into dimmer less aware bulbs reality, and so on and so forth. I never enjoyed playing the game until now, I still don't like playing games in personal relationships, but can see why this is thus, and the utility of this thusness to create change and lower entropy. Minds need to open, just not so far that their brains fall out. I've much input on reincarnation, children say the truth and adults shush them or tell them to stop lying until they just forget it. Reincarnation=recycling and I believe recycling is basic, a basic rule. My design is intended for PMR and could open "scholarly" work on reincarnation just as meditation is now found as scholarly and there is an entire school of thought called Complimentary and Alternative Medicine (CAM) with imagery, meditation, etc. This is an exciting time to be here.
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Bette

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:42 pm 
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Bette,

I think there is a problem with your assumption that a person's DNA remains the same from lifetime to lifetime. I don't think that must be the case. I wouldn't say that is impossible --only that it is not the rule because it is not logically necessary. When a being is planning another experience packet it may decides on specific physical characteristics it needs to help produce learning opportunities of a certain type. It finds a set of situations (parents) that provide the right genetic material and environmental setting to support these requirements (one that is compatible with the PMR rule-set) and picks one to be born into. Characteristics that are not particularly pertinent to a specific plan just fall out randomly from the contributions of each parent. Some entities return to PMR with no specific growth plan and take whatever they get - they are not yet at a level where getting that specific learning focus returns enough probable growth for the investment of time and effort required. So individual planning of specific characteristics to support specific learning opportunities goes from none to lots and is quite flexible -- all satisfying the PMR rule-set. That would imply that DNA changes from experience packet to packet.

Thinking that the DNA must remain the same because it contains entity-specific information appears to be logically unnecessary. We are just talking about data here - a data stream of nonphysical information entering the interpretive field of a consciousness. True, to maintain a proper causal link between PMR choice/action and the resulting being who is represented in PMR by his body according to the PMR rule-set, information defining the individual in PMR must be downloaded in physical form to the body -- stored and updated as the entity grows and changes. The body is the physical PMR representation of a portion of the nonphysical conscious entity. But there are many equivalent ways that downloading, updating and storage can be implemented. Just like there are a thousand ways to write the same book, there are lots of implementation choices that could adequately represent the individual and be implemented within the physical system. One can write a program a thousand different ways and such that each one will always produce the exact same result. Any sufficiently general and robust system of code that stores and modifies information, whether it is expressed in terms of DNA, CNS neurons and synapses, or C++ must have lots of implementation options that will produce the same I/O. There is no reason that I can think of to assume that DNA must stay the same between incarnations.

Now, what I have just explained represents the most logical model that best fits my experience data so far. Never confuse reality with the model of reality. Scientifically exploring as many models as possible is a valid research path. Please don't let me discourage you -- the process of doing the work (rather than the result) is where most learning occurs anyway. In science, negative and positive results are both meaningful results.


Tom C


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:15 pm 
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Maybe Bruce Lipton may have an answer? http://www.brucelipton.com/

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:39 am 
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Thank you Peter, this looks very interesting and Dr Lipton has the symbol that helps get these ideas into popular culture and accepted as possible at least. That is one thing, one goal I have as I think getting acceptance of what is into more peoples reality, and if I get some nice symbol or symbols after my name that will help. It's part of this PMR scholarly scientific rule-set, as I am beginning to glimpse. As Tom points out there is one foundational thing or truth that might have different flavors but is all the same thing. People absolutely grounded, earthbound in thought, with minds closed by fear to anything but old (but not ancient) "ways to be" take gentle socially acceptable information presented in a way that they can relate to for any organization to reduce the chaos. My mentor told me many moon years ago (10 or so) in a critical reasoning Science as a way of Knowing class that change requires enough chaos so that a system such as a mind was open enough to take in the new data. She had that and many other pieces of my puzzle, or information packets that she has been exchanging with me that I required before finding MBT. I would like to do the same thing for community college students here, but take them even further if possible.
Thank you for this resource.

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Bette

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:11 pm 
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What about the One timers, whom Monroe talked about on "Ultimate Journey" (pages 50-55), he/she had lived eighteen hundred years and doesn`t require sleep or food. Doesn`t PMR rules include the ageing of human body and the necessity of food and sleep. He/she was highly evolved entity, is that how the rules were bent or did he/she have a different agreement before entry. Why do some entities choose to go trough this PMR school with a method of one huge experience packet.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:59 am 
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Maybe I just intepreted the dialogue between Monroe and the entity he called He/She falsely because the conversation was non verbal and Monroe had to put this in his own words.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:23 pm 
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Well Quantum, first let me thank you for leading me back to this thread and giving me the page numbers I needed to reread from the Monroe book right in front of me (behind my computer where thesis stuff is stored). I can't believe I didn't thank Tom for his most informative response to my way to present reincarnation as falsifiable, thank you Tom. I interpreted Monroe's words of "one continuous lifetime, for eighteen hundreds years!" literally as he mentions it as "the most mature and evolved human in physical earth, living in your time reference." I wonder if this human, well, I wonder a lot of stuff; I also wonder about this human. This section, from pages 50-55, also uses ROTE which is something else that has been on my mind recently. This is because PMR already uses this term to mean learning without thinking by memory with no or little intelligence involved. This rote learning was an issue with what my son received at school, when he still went, it was a bad thing and I think has a negative tag in society. Monroe, Tom, and all's use of ROTE here is a different animal. A ROTE, as I understand it, is learning without effort as the information has been gathered together for you to form a coherent whole and given as such.
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Bette

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