I think if AUO got too close to 0 entropy it would reverse itself to preserve itself. Maybe that is always happening as all time is simultaneous.

_________________
"All the world's a Stage and all the men and women merely players, They have their exits and their entrances and ONE man in his time plays many parts, his acts beings Heaven ages"---Shakespeare

Claudio,

Sorry to take so long -- good questions.

1. From what I found, you were saying that consciousness can be copied. You mentioned also the possibility that a being can be restored if deleted. Do you know if this actually was done? Can AUM make a copy of Tom Campbell's IUOC at a certain delta-t and save it for a possible backup or to make a new experiment by placing the new copy in a different VR?

Yes - consciousness is data and as such can be copied, stored, deleted, and restored; and yes it has been done. All the information that defines your particular experience is part of the historical database that is automatically stored and kept until it is deemed not likely to be useful in the future. You, or a facsimile of you, can be reconstituted from that historical record. Such data could be used to seed, rather than populate a new or old experiment in a different VR (there is always a need for teachers). There wouldn't be any point in exclusively populating a new VR (or this VR) with highly evolved beings -- the point of a VR is to teach -- to be a place of learning.

There is not a fixed number of individual IUOCs in the larger consciousness system. Also, there seems to be an almost endless supply of beginning level consciousness coming into our PMR VR all the time - starting at the bottom and working their way up by reducing their entropy. I would assume that there is a huge and probably growing population within AUM at the lower end of the quality scale. Populating a VR with advanced beings would make that VR an old folks home instead of an elementary school. The larger consciousness system has no need for old folks homes, but there is a great need for elementary schools. Will the average quality of IUOCs within all of AUM eventually rise enough to make elementary schools unnecessary? Perhaps, but that is such a slow process that elementary schools will be in demand for a very long time yet, if not forever. See Book 1, page 271 and Chapter 32 for some conjecture about endgames.

It is not just about lowering the system's average entropy -- remember that intent and motivation are more important than the action taken -- it is also about how the system's entropy is lowered. AUM allowed some Individual IUOCs to produce new IUOCs that also have free will in order to naturally populate his thought-space with parallel processing entities having the growth opportunities afforded by experience (as discussed in the book). This creates community, connectedness, and responsibility as well as allowing a system based upon individual integrity and responsibility to evolve naturally. A system with unlimited potential must be a natural system (a naturally evolved system rather than a fiat system) founded upon freedom (free will) and mutual respect and regard among IUOCs. Anything planned and then forced into being and then maintained by edict (a fiat system) is sterile and without the freedom or the necessary degree of freewill to be whatever it can become. Consequently, it is counterproductive to the evolution of the larger consciousness system to simply eliminate all those of lower quality - like euthanizing everyone in PMR with an IQ of less than 130 -- a very bad idea that must inevitably lead to a sterile community living under the oppressive boot of the masters and greatly diminished it its ability to foster the growth of love. Fascism, as a governing concept is inherently unstable. The attitude and governing rule-set underlying a community based on becoming love cannot be anything other than consistently encouraging, caring, compassionate, loving and respectful toward all. Individual Free will must be respected, those disadvantaged (low quality) must be nurtured not scorned or eliminated. There is untold potential in each and every one of us because that is the fundamental nature of an IUOC with free will. The larger consciousness system is (defines) a moral system.

2. I found that you said that "thoughts" and "feelings" are also fundamental (reference below). If that is so, how is TBC structured? I assume TBC has the same structure or substance (consciousness). How can TBC model a VR from just "thoughts" and "feelings"? TBC has to use some logic, or structured organization, even though different from PMR, but something is there and some scientists in NPMR or above layer/s should be able to analyze and come up with something from studying it. (See below when you answered a question to Jer).

TBC models a VR by defining a rule-set. It starts with an appropriate (for the rule-set) set of initial conditions, starts incrementing time and lets the VR evolve as it may. The results, when suitably evolved, provide the details of what is likely to be in the VR and how the VR works (all possible energy exchanges within the VR are defined), eventually feed the data-streams of multiple interactive IUOC players. Thoughts and feelings are fundamental to the IUOC players.

3. If according to MBT we have a digital nature, why can't that digital nature be studied (at least by highly evolved super intelligent beings)? From the answers I found (reference below), it looks to me that some "magic" is replacing the "digital nature".

I do not understand question 3. Perhaps I have answered it already.

Tom C

Hi Tom:

Thank you for answering. Your answer to my first question was what I expected. It is good that you clarified it. I will go back to you below but first I wanted to clarify my question 3.

You said in an answer to Jer:

"There may be only content (whole thoughts and feelings relative to interactive relationship that can be strung together to form content) and no underlying "objective" code."

Let me put the question in another way:

In MBT there is an assumption that Consciousness is information and it can be described by a series of 1's and 0's (may be a more complicated based like qbits or whatever) or some kind of code. That is also what is used to copy consciousness and store the databases.

Now, we have thoughts and feelings. Can you in NPMR or other VR get an exact reading of the Consciousness code that describe a thought. Can we read the equivalent of a binary set like we get when we read a file using a computer program? In other words can consciousness be studied by looking at whatever code it uses? I understand that the code may not be like the one we see in PMR but according to MBT there should be a series of logical sets that describe units of consciousness to study them, copy them, etc.

Regarding your answers it is clear that AUM is "not in a hurry" to evolve. It prefers natural ways instead of forced ways or artificial ways. So a "brand new" IUOC goes to the painful way of learning to evolve to a new configuration (let's say after 50 PMR cycles). It goes through all the suffering, emotions, joy, etc. for a long period of time to get transformed to a new lower entropy configuration that may have higher entropy than what could have been obtained without those 50 PMR cycles by making a copy from another already low entropy being. It's like AUM has an attitude towards natural ways, kinda thinking. I went through all this, I want everybody else to go through it too (no shortcuts, unless you develop them yourselves eventually).

Thanks,

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Claudio: can consciousness be studied by looking at whatever code it uses

Yes, thoughts and feelings of all sorts (gross or subtle) are accurately represented, described, and captured in digital form within the Larger consciousness system.

Tom C

Amazing Tom. Thanks. I think I got confused with your answer to Jer. Now it's clear like water. Sometimes I feel I don't want to get back to PMR and stay in NPMR studying Consciousness.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Tom,

Could you clarify one thing about your answer to Claudio above? Do you mean as they are transmitted as part of the experience of a VR and thus externally available relative to the IUOC that is experiencing them as they pass over the RWW? Or do you mean as they exist within the/an IUOC itself as internal to their being. If the latter, would it not have to be on the basis of an action such as being transmitted out as a copy for perhaps the replication of that IUOC or as part of that IUOC to contribute to the creation of a new IUOC by the contributions of multiple donor/parent IUOCs?

Ted

I hope it's the first one because I can almost understand that option.
Love
Bette

And yes I know I presupposed one of them, at least, is correct, them being Ted's questions/options. I do learn from experience and my experience is that Ted knows what he is talking about, great system we got here, this learning from experience.

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

If i may,

(thanks for the post, Claudio:)

I think this parallels Ted's first question; My memory, when I remember what I perceive as my life, is that and the recorded (RWW-all-available) one and the same, thus equalizing 'remembering' and 'tapping into recorded actualizations'?

-k

Well, while waiting for Tom. I think Consciousness is consciousness, independent on if it is connected to a VR or not. Copies are made at the lowest level (bits level). I see IUOCs connection to VRs as interfaces that hook an application (VR self) to a data stream with corresponding protocols (parts of ruleset). Copies at Consciousness level or at VR level should be equivalent (IMO) since you are copying a digital set.

Thoughts though originally in pure digital mode when originated and preserved as such in databases are interpreted by an IUOC and an "interpreted version" is stored in the IUOC memory or an externally accessible memory to the IUOC. I think a IUOC can go back to a previous thought or feeling (in pure form, stored somewhere in RWW) and re-interpret it again. The "interpreted versions" should be different sets of bits of the "original" and the lowest entropy of the IUOC and its capacity to interpret data should make the difference decrease.

Tom, am I in the right track?

Sorry, Tom, but these topics are interesting for some of us.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

It seems like you are talking about an unactualized reality thread where a slightly different version of what happens gets saved, like this is what you are talking about Claudio, and like this is the clone or clones are off in the unactualized threads and able to be accessed, to me. It just seems parallel, not that it is the same thing.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

No. I am not talking about unactualized databases in particular. Data is data. Databases don't include "real beings", even though from there you can connect to a real being by reference. I was talking mainly about copying and entire being (IUOC), but according to Tom, apparently there is no limit in what can be copied. Even though databases don't contain real beings they contain information about certain basic behaviors of those beings, so you may get a "decent" expected answer from a being in a database, but eventually you may figure out it does not "react" like a being. Tom knows better.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Why doesn't it react like a being?
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Bette: If I look for you in a database and see what you were doing yesterday and then while I see you were driving I ask you a question, I might get an answer but it won't be you answering back to me. It will be the database answering back to me with the data that TBC has about your history and how you can most probably answer. TBC can predict a probable scenario but you are the only one with free will. Actually that's another characteristic of a being vs. a database, real beings have free will (you are unpredictable, aren't you? :).

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Well I'm probably more predictable than I even realize. I do have a consistent inconsistency about me though.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Here is an idea, (I am thinking it was Freeman Dyson's, originally) To add to the mix. As I recall it comes from a set of ethical puzzles, something like that.

Suppose you develop a teleportation technology such that it gathers the 'information" of exactly the kind and placement of every atom in your body. That data can be transmitted at the speed of light, say to Mars, and then reassembled there. Unfortunately, the original 'you' gets destroyed by the technology that reads the information, that is the only way to gather the information. (in this ethical exercise set up). The 'new' you, though, is exactly identical to the old you... all the same memories, feelings, behaviors, etc, that you had when you were destroyed. And you've been saved the long tedious conventional trip from earth to Mars. Would that be an okay thing to do?

That is the essential set-up of the problem, and then you can bring all sorts of variations to it (store someone indefinitely for various reasons in digital form, for any number of reasons.... awaiting health solutions, etc ... is it okay to print out several copies, on and on).

The essential premise doesn't seem to be obviously invalid though: Hypothetically, you could, with sufficient technology, gather all the data and then replicate it. I suppose the idea is predicated on the idea that consciousness is physically generated... but even still, it seems like the second copy would be alive.

Montana