Tom:

I wanted to ask about cloning of beings (IUOCs, not VR beings like humans in PMR, real fundamental consciousness).

In the process I searched for previous posts and that opened more questions. I will post the references at the bottom.

1. From what I found, you were saying that consciousness can be copied. You mentioned also the possibility that a being can be restored if deleted. Do you know if this actually was done? Can AUM make a copy of Tom Campbell's IUOC at a certaing delta-t and save it for a possible backup or to make a new experiment by placing the new copy in a different VR?

2. I found that you said that "thoughts" and "feelings" are also fundamental (reference below). If that is so, how is TBC structured? I assume TBC has the same structure or substance (consciousness). How can TBC model a VR from just "thoughts" and "feelings"? TBC has to use some logic, or structured organization, even though different from PMR, but something is there and some scientists in NPMR or above layer/s should be able to analyze and come up with something from studying it. (See below when you answered a question to Jer).

3. If according to MBT we have a digital nature, why can't that digital nature be studied (at least by highly evolved super intelligent beings)? From the answers I found (reference below), it looks to me that some "magic" is replacing the "digital nature".

References from previous posts:



Quotes above found at: http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2477&p=5774&hilit=copy%2A#p5774

Another related post from Tom:


Thanks,

Claudio

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"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Claudio,

Interesting question,

Seems to me that AUM making copies of our consciousness (at a very productive state) somehow would violate the process and integrity of AUM's search for the most efficient evolutionary processes to lower it's entropy.

Kind of like putting in "cheat codes" in a videogame that allow you to start over at a certain save point.

I would guess, AUM would let free will and evolution follow through to its natural end.

Besides, non-free will versions or copies of ourselves (that reflect our consciousness quality at that moment) exist in the actualized past data base, unactualized past database and future probability database.

Steve.

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Be the difference.

Hi Steve:

AUM seems to like experiments. I don't see why not to create some copies of some beings and make them go through different VR experiences, later on also the copies may be merged resulting in lowering the entropy of the result. Something similar is done in parallel processing of different VR bodies from the same total-self.

That's why I also cited the quote: "AUM is an intelligent (purposeful) evolving real system making real choices to optimize that evolution, not a fixed rule-set or process of infinite perfection."

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

I have from times to times pondered the question of cloning.

What happens if I clone myself, a hundred percent biologically match.

If the cloning is instant, who is going to inhabit the body? What consciousness will take it?

It seems quite awkward for an IOUC to instantly inhabit a new body with it's own developed brain.

What would happen?

Hi SS:

I think in the worst case they may stop the VR till they find an IUOC. This scenario might happen in the future if we create AI consciousness in mass production. There can also be hybrid androids with cloned human brains and mechanical parts. There are works in where they make interfaces between brains and computers. I posted recently in Physics about that.

My question though is not regarding cloning of humans but cloning of real beings (IUOCs). In MBT model if consciousness is information, it can be copied.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Hmmm...

Why then wouldn't AUM just make huge numbers of copies of lower entropy beings and speed up the evolutionary process of lowering the whole system's entropy.

Wouldn't that be like AUM interacting and experimenting with itself? Instead of giving IUOC's freewill and letting them interact and evolve.

Somehow, i still think the freewill/consciousness dynamic is a fundamental requirement of the whole evolutionary process and was determined to be the most effective way for AUM to lower its entropy.

Maybe i have this wrong, but i thought, consciousness comes into being after AUM and the fundamental process creates the right circumstances or potentials, then consciousness just happens. And evolves using free will choices.

steve

_________________
Be the difference.

Steve: Why then wouldn't AUM just make huge numbers of copies of lower entropy beings and speed up the evolutionary process of lowering the whole system's entropy?

Claudio: I have the same question. It makes sense to do that. I don't think AUM goal is purely to lower its entropy. It could as well enjoy the experience of doing it. If It uses certain "cheats" or "tricks" to speed up evolution IUOCs wouldn't "experience" as much. For me, it looks like AUM likes IUOCs to go through the "journey". AUM can then learn by "feeling" and "observing" IUOCs experiences (journeys).

Steve: Somehow, i still think the freewill/consciousness dynamic is a fundamental requirement of the whole evolutionary process and was determined to be the most effective way for AUM to lower its entropy.

Claudio: Copying does not go against "free will". Copies will enjoy "free will" as the originals. I never mentioned anything regarding stopping "free will".

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

I noticed this post and had to comment.

For starters, sounds like someone might need to read MBT again...I hear it calling my name too, but here I go again.

Steve wrote:

Why then wouldn't AUM just make huge numbers of copies of lower entropy beings and speed up the evolutionary process of lowering the whole system's entropy.

My response:

Sounds like teraforming...lol. Seriously, are "copies" not made via the VRRE. Would this not be a required function to create a stable, fluid simulation?

Hi CA:

CA. We are not talking about VRs here. Steve and I are talking about IUOCs (total beings, not virtual beings). E.g.: your human aspect is your virtual aspect (your avatar in PMR). VRRE handles VRs.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Well, my apologies...and I know I do not have to say this...but cloning IUOC's is a little over me head sir.

If memory serves, a big if perhaps, has not Tom described multiple beings contributing 'mind stuff' to the creation of a new IUOC? The multiple parents provide different functionalities as encapsulated in some portion of their being as their self/mind located on the RWW. This means that some portion of their being is copied or cloned and combined together as a new being on the RWW which then 'takes off' on it's own path of development based upon it's own experience history into the future. Cloning an individual entirely from one existing 'parent' seems not so much of value compared to this. But it would be entirely possible. The parent and cloned child IUOC would then immediately begin to diverge as their future experience diverged.

Ted

This kind of sounds like making babies. :) Let's just keep doing it the old fashioned way. ;)
Love
Bette

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Hi Ted: It would be good if somebody can find that thread.

Ted: "Cloning an individual entirely from one existing 'parent' seems not so much of value compared to this. But it would be entirely possible. The parent and cloned child IUOC would then immediately begin to diverge as their future experience diverged."

Claudio: I agree that the cloned child IUOC will diverge from the first delta-t since it would already start experience something different.
Ted, you can also clone the being that multiple beings contributed to create.

I think I am getting more and more convinced that AUM goal is not entirely or purely to lower its entropy. If a highly evolved being went through a lot of VR cycles and was able to change its configuration to a better one. Why doesn't AUM delete beings that after several VR cycles became worst and replace them with the good ones.

Sport teams have two options: 1. They can train players from scratch. 2. Buy already trained good players and sell the ones that didn't "evolve" well.

I think the reason that AUM does not copy "successful" IUOCs in a mass scale is because of what I said above. It's not just about winning the game with the highest score but rather make a "fun" interesting "game", and that's where "evil" also plays a role. I think AUM is showing some kind of "loyalty", "love", respect for the "original IUOCs". AUM to me is not acting just to be more "profitable" (like american private companies do) but using also some other criteria like "freedom", "love", "respect", "don't force things too much", "let natural processes like evolution develop for themselves, naturally, not forced".

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

This is a good point, and your suggested answer seems good (that AUM has rules, and likes to play fair etc). Another possibility is that what seems poor now may in x generations become rather interesting -by a roundabout sort of route. Isn't that how neural nets work?

Claudio, vzam,

I believe that the reference to multiple parents adding to the original being of a newly created IUOC is in MBT, not on the BB. I just don't remember where.

Remember that the IUOCs in total are the One Consciousness. They are the original automata participating in the bootstrapping of The One. There is most certainly a matter of loyalty. The One is developing it's quality of consciousness and lowering it's entropy by developing the same for all of the IUOCs. Deleting what it might determine to be a lesser quality IUOC and cloning an IUOC that was of higher quality would lower the diversity of the sum and total of the IUOCs. The plan is apparently to evolve all and improve the QOC of all.

If you are growing cattle for market, you want to get the best stock for stud service. You are not concerned about the quality of cattle in general but producing the best meat at a given expense to make the most money. If you are concerned about the quality of cattle in general, you cannot leave any cow out of the available genetic diversity. You never know when a new disease threat or changed environmental conditions can best be met by the characteristics or disease resistance of some scrawny male or female that you let remain in the mix just in case. Extrapolate from this on top of loyalty, which is actually self loyalty to what is the total basis of The One and I think you will have a good explanation for this approach.

Ted