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Discussion and Explanation of the Writings of Tom Campbell: The Paradigm Changes Here

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 Post subject: Re: What is sex?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:57 pm 
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bette wrote:
Lumpy wrote:
soprano wrote:
A lovely being in NPMR giving love to other beings is considered something nice. In PMR a male or a female giving love to somebody that is not a "legal one" is considered:

1. a bitch.
2. a cheater.
3. a dog.
4. a low life.

...

Will this PMR ever evolve?

Clau


Im confused on what you mean by that, can you help me out?
I'd say he probably meant those words as possible names a free spirit in PMR would be called, considered per current social norms here, now while in NPMR it's all good with none of that man made social norm BS like marriage as it currently exists.
Love
Bette


Oh K I C


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 Post subject: Re: What is sex?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:39 pm 
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I couldn't have answered that better, Bette.

Clau

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Last edited by soprano on Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What is sex?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:32 am 
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soprano wrote:
I couldn't have answer that better, Bette.

Clau


Well thats obvious becuase you didn't even try. :D


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 Post subject: Re: What is sex?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:42 am 
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Lumpy wrote:
soprano wrote:
I couldn't have answer that better, Bette.

Clau


Well thats obvious becuase you didn't even try. :D


So, Lumpy, what's your opinion?

Another observation from an NPMR (bigger picture) point of view:

This is how I imagine a nice future PMR. You are walking on the side walk and you see a cute girl. You say: "Hi, how are you doing? I like your body, you got a nice avatar. I feel I'd like to offer some love to you. How about you?" .... "Oh, thanks, I also like my avatar, I like to take care of it. Sure, no problem, I love giving love, specially to the ones that honestly ask for it, like you do." ... "Thanks, your avatar does not have any problems, diseases? I see in your aura that everything looks OK," ... "As you see, yes, I don't share my body when I see aura's with STDs." ... "I see from your aura that you do the same." ... "Let's hold hands and walk together ... I see an enjoyable future ... I am excited, I am vibrating all over :)"

Some day :) lol

Clau

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 Post subject: Re: What is sex?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:18 am 
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I would make one correction. In a case like this sex is not equal to love, even in PMR. Oh, and I would drop a future part too. Another chance to have sex, may be a good one. If we learning to talk honestly, we have to stick to it.
soprano wrote:
This is how I imagine a nice future PMR. You are walking on the side walk and you see a cute girl. You say: "Hi, how are you doing? I like your body, you got a nice avatar. I feel I'd like to offer some sex to you. How about you?" .... "Oh, thanks, I also like my avatar, I like to take care of it. Sure, no problem, I love giving sex, specially to the ones that honestly ask for it, like you do." ... "Thanks, your avatar does not have any problems, diseases? I see in your aura that everything looks OK," ... "As you see, yes, I don't share my body when I see aura's with STDs." ... "I see from your aura that you do the same." ... "Let's hold hands and walk together ... I see an enjoyable future ... I am excited, I am vibrating all over :)"

Some day :) lol

Clau
Otherwise this scenario exists now already.

Lena

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 Post subject: Re: What is sex?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:39 am 
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Lena wrote:
I would make one correction. In a case like this sex is not equal to love, even in PMR. Oh, and I would drop a future part too. Another chance to have sex, may be a good one. If we learning to talk honestly, we have to stick to it.
soprano wrote:
This is how I imagine a nice future PMR. You are walking on the side walk and you see a cute girl. You say: "Hi, how are you doing? I like your body, you got a nice avatar. I feel I'd like to offer some sex to you. How about you?" .... "Oh, thanks, I also like my avatar, I like to take care of it. Sure, no problem, I love giving sex, specially to the ones that honestly ask for it, like you do." ... "Thanks, your avatar does not have any problems, diseases? I see in your aura that everything looks OK," ... "As you see, yes, I don't share my body when I see aura's with STDs." ... "I see from your aura that you do the same." ... "Let's hold hands and walk together ... I see an enjoyable future ... I am excited, I am vibrating all over :)"

Some day :) lol

Clau
Otherwise this scenario exists now already.

Lena


Hi Lena:

Actually you can use the words love, sex, pleasure and they all apply to my post. Sex is different in PMR because of society's perception. For me a more important distinction than sex or love (I prefer love) is how much of it is about giving. If you just think about satisfying yourself is just an arrow pointing inward. I don't see anything wrong with giving love, or giving pleasure or giving sex. It is the giving or taking what is important. In NPMR you can send and receive, pleasure, love, sex (virtual), but that is more of an interpretation from the receiver. I can send love to another being and that being may perceive it as sex. When you remove fear; love, sex, pleasure can be all the same, it is just applying a metaphor for the real intent of sending energy (information) in a certain way, and the reception of that depends on the clarity of the receiver. I receive pleasurable vibrations (which I can also create from nothing), and it is up to me how I want to interpret them. I tend to use the term pleasure or love, instead of sex, because there are no real spatial constraints. The less I analyze what I receive the more I can enjoy it for what it is, different from animal PMR sex. It is all about the perception, the man made created beliefs that people follow through society.

Claudio

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"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

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Last edited by soprano on Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What is sex?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:48 am 
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soprano wrote:
This is how I imagine a nice future PMR. You are walking on the side walk and you see a cute girl. You say: "Hi, how are you doing? I like your body, you got a nice avatar. I feel I'd like to offer some love to you. How about you?" .... "Oh, thanks, I also like my avatar, I like to take care of it. Sure, no problem, I love giving love, specially to the ones that honestly ask for it, like you do." ... "Thanks, your avatar does not have any problems, diseases? I see in your aura that everything looks OK," ... "As you see, yes, I don't share my body when I see aura's with STDs." ... "I see from your aura that you do the same." ... "Let's hold hands and walk together ... I see an enjoyable future ... I am excited, I am vibrating all over :)" Claudio


Your whole scenario is based upon what the woman looks like not QOC. The only thing mentioned was physical attraction. So to me it is just a PMR little picture perspective.


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 Post subject: Re: What is sex?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:11 am 
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Sainbury wrote:
Your whole scenario is based upon what the woman looks like not QOC. The only thing mentioned was physical attraction. So to me it is just a PMR little picture perspective.


Hello Linda:

I wasn't posting a love theory. In a sense you are right that it was limited to a little picture perspective, because of just being attracted to a shape. Beings can be attracted to shapes, to personalities, etc. (which are all information systems, anyway). If a personal computer or a robot is attracted to shapes you may not complain, but a computer and us are both information systems.

But how many women will act like the one in my example? And they wouldn't easily give like the one of my example because of all the fears that they have and probably Lena and you have as well. Most men and women just think of what can they take from the other one or what does the other wants to take from you. Not too many, just purely think of just how to give love and pleasure for the other one to feel better without any conditions. I have a more different view from a typical PMR view because of having experienced no fear giving and receiving in NPMR without the BS (stolen from Bette) that society broadcasts in this PMR.

In Star Trek episodes and other sci-fi movies others had a similar vision. There are episodes where they visit a planet and the beings there see it natural to offer pleasure to anybody (including visitors). No fear there. Of course no progress either if they just focus on pleasure all the time.

Clau

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 Post subject: Re: What is sex?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:32 am 
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soprano wrote:
Actually you can use the words love, sex, pleasure and they all apply to my post. Sex is different in PMR because of society's perception. ...
Sex might be a part of the loving relationship, but sex as a physical act does not require love to be present. Physical desire of pleasure can be good enough. (Krishnamurti's explanation of pleasure and desire, and why both of them cannot be considered as a part of love is excellent.) To be caring and think about a partner at this moment depends on one's level of entropy or QoC, but PMR love is something else, much more than sex, though sex is a part of love between man and woman. I know that words sex and love used interchangeably, but it brings only more confusion in PMR understanding what love and Love are.

Lena

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 Post subject: Re: What is sex?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:44 am 
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Jiddu Krishnamurti, The Only Revolution
Quote:
...we have two problems - love and sex. The one is an abstract idea, the other is an actual daily biological urge - a fact that exists and cannot be denied. Let us first find out what love is, not as an abstract idea but what it actually is. What is it? Is it merely a sensuous delight, cultivated by thought as pleasure, the remembrance of an experience which has given great delight or sexual enjoyment? Is it the beauty of a sunset, or the delicate leaf that you touch or see, or the perfume of the flower that you smell? Is love pleasure, or desire? Or is it none of these? Is love to be divided as the sacred and the profane? Or is it something indivisible, whole, that cannot be broken up by thought? Does it exist without the object? Or does it come into being only because of the object? Is it because you see the face of a woman that love arises in you - love then being sensation, desire, pleasure, to which thought gives continuity? Or is love a state in you which responds to beauty as tenderness? Is love something cultivated by thought so that its object becomes important, or is it utterly unrelated to thought and, therefore, independent, free? Without understanding this word and the meaning behind it we shall be tortured, or become neurotic about sex, or be enslaved by it.
and more...
The Way of Intelligence
Quote:
You are saying, sir, that this state is not only biological, it is sensory. Sensory love may begin with desire, desire being seeing, perception, contact, sensation, thought, the image and desire; that is the process. You are saying love is desire, it is biological. I want to find out whether love exists at all apart from the sensory, apart from desire, attachment, jealousy and, therefore, hate. Is that love? If I told my wife it is all sensory, and if she is at all intelligent, she would throw something at me. We have reduced love to such a limited, ugly thing. Therefore, we don't love.

Love implies much more than the word. It implies a great deal of beauty. It does not rest in the woman I love, but in the very feeling of love, which implies a relationship with nature, love of stars, the earth, stones, the stray dog, all that, and also the love of my wife. If you reduce it to desire and sensation, if you call it a biological movement, then it becomes a tawdry affair. Your wife treats you, and you treat her, as a biological necessity. Is that love? So I am asking, is desire, pleasure, love? Is sexual comfort love?


Lena

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Last edited by Lena on Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What is sex?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:54 am 
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soprano wrote:
I couldn't have answered that better, Bette.

Clau

Thank you Clau, we are making progress, hey?

Lumpy, he didn't have to, I did it, right? ;)
Love
Bette

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what is?
Consciousness.


Last edited by bette on Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What is sex?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:56 am 
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Lena wrote:
PMR love is something else, much more than sex, though sex is a part of love between man and woman. I know that words sex and love used interchangeably, but it brings only more confusion in PMR understanding what love and Love are.

Lena


Hi Lena:

I don't think there is a PMR love as something defined for everybody. Love or love are just metaphors and each being interpretation of it is different. I like how Tom made it simple by just defining love or better Love as the state of lowest entropy. I think you are focusing just in one aspect of my post but not really giving an opinion about what I see as people in PMR not quite evolved on how to handle "giving", being love, pleasure, affection, sex, help, etc., without conditions, without thinking of what they can get or other conditions they would like.

I don't think sex is a part of love, at all. They don't need to be connected. They are, just because society and beliefs make it so. Sex is driven by pleasure created by the PMR rule-set through sexual sensors as part of the body interface. All that of relating sex and love is just a man/woman creation that then society broadcasts and people just do what others do. When you can get out of what everybody else does and just re-think, re-feel without those beliefs you can see and feel things differently.

Let's say you want to become a more evolved being. In the PMR there are only 3 people left in the world, two men and you. You want to evolve and you want to make them feel good and give them hapinness. One man asks you for sex, because his body makes him feel the need for sex. The other man says he does not want sex, but he'd like some affection. Would you give them or try to give them what they ask for? If not, where is the ego and fear in all of this?

Clau

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"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <


Last edited by soprano on Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What is sex?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:58 am 
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soprano wrote:
I am excited, I am vibrating all over :)"
lol Consciousness porn, you should write some more Claudio. ;)
Love
Bette

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what is?
Consciousness.


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 Post subject: Re: What is sex?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:07 am 
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Lena wrote:
Jiddu Krishnamurti, The Only Revolution
Quote:
...we have two problems - love and sex. The one is an abstract idea, the other is an actual daily biological urge - a fact that exists and cannot be denied. Let us first find out what love is, not as an abstract idea but what it actually is. What is it? Is it merely a sensuous delight, cultivated by thought as pleasure, the remembrance of an experience which has given great delight or sexual enjoyment? Is it the beauty of a sunset, or the delicate leaf that you touch or see, or the perfume of the flower that you smell? Is love pleasure, or desire? Or is it none of these? Is love to be divided as the sacred and the profane? Or is it something indivisible, whole, that cannot be broken up by thought? Does it exist without the object? Or does it come into being only because of the object? Is it because you see the face of a woman that love arises in you - love then being sensation, desire, pleasure, to which thought gives continuity? Or is love a state in you which responds to beauty as tenderness? Is love something cultivated by thought so that its object becomes important, or is it utterly unrelated to thought and, therefore, independent, free? Without understanding this word and the meaning behind it we shall be tortured, or become neurotic about sex, or be enslaved by it.
and more...

Lena


Hi Lena:

He gave a good understanding of sex. The metaphor sex in NPMR can also be used as an expression of desire, a search for pleasure outside. I don't think it is so important to find the right definition of love if there is one, as long as you understand the different aspects as mentioned by JK. Love as an expression is a creation from within a being. We generate love and we can feel expressions of love. Anything that is external to us helps that expression to arise but it does not matter as much in my opinion. This is why I think "giving" is the main thing. Giving, creating, projecting is what's important, not the source or external stimuli that helps creating that. As Tom says we wouldn't feel different if our brains are plugged to a computer that generates our input. In the same token, if your perception of some external stimuli is for example coming from a real being or it is just computer generated (TBC or other CS source), it does not make a difference. It is about how you can lower your entropy and are able to generate and create love to give away without expectations or conditions nor external stimuli.

Claudio

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"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <


Last edited by soprano on Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What is sex?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:10 am 
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bette wrote:
soprano wrote:
I am excited, I am vibrating all over :)"
lol Consciousness porn, you should write some more Claudio. ;)
Love
Bette


lol ... whatcha talking about? Do you want me to be banned again?... I am trying to behave :) hahaha. I'd like you to enjoy vibrations. All the love and pleasure for you :)

Clau

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"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <


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