Oh K I C

_________________
I eat ego's for breakfast!
Sincerely, Ego.

I couldn't have answered that better, Bette.

Clau

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Well thats obvious becuase you didn't even try. :D

_________________
I eat ego's for breakfast!
Sincerely, Ego.

So, Lumpy, what's your opinion?

Another observation from an NPMR (bigger picture) point of view:

This is how I imagine a nice future PMR. You are walking on the side walk and you see a cute girl. You say: "Hi, how are you doing? I like your body, you got a nice avatar. I feel I'd like to offer some love to you. How about you?" .... "Oh, thanks, I also like my avatar, I like to take care of it. Sure, no problem, I love giving love, specially to the ones that honestly ask for it, like you do." ... "Thanks, your avatar does not have any problems, diseases? I see in your aura that everything looks OK," ... "As you see, yes, I don't share my body when I see aura's with STDs." ... "I see from your aura that you do the same." ... "Let's hold hands and walk together ... I see an enjoyable future ... I am excited, I am vibrating all over :)"

Some day :) lol

Clau

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

I would make one correction. In a case like this sex is not equal to love, even in PMR. Oh, and I would drop a future part too. Another chance to have sex, may be a good one. If we learning to talk honestly, we have to stick to it. Otherwise this scenario exists now already.

Lena

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

Hi Lena:

Actually you can use the words love, sex, pleasure and they all apply to my post. Sex is different in PMR because of society's perception. For me a more important distinction than sex or love (I prefer love) is how much of it is about giving. If you just think about satisfying yourself is just an arrow pointing inward. I don't see anything wrong with giving love, or giving pleasure or giving sex. It is the giving or taking what is important. In NPMR you can send and receive, pleasure, love, sex (virtual), but that is more of an interpretation from the receiver. I can send love to another being and that being may perceive it as sex. When you remove fear; love, sex, pleasure can be all the same, it is just applying a metaphor for the real intent of sending energy (information) in a certain way, and the reception of that depends on the clarity of the receiver. I receive pleasurable vibrations (which I can also create from nothing), and it is up to me how I want to interpret them. I tend to use the term pleasure or love, instead of sex, because there are no real spatial constraints. The less I analyze what I receive the more I can enjoy it for what it is, different from animal PMR sex. It is all about the perception, the man made created beliefs that people follow through society.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Your whole scenario is based upon what the woman looks like not QOC. The only thing mentioned was physical attraction. So to me it is just a PMR little picture perspective.

Hello Linda:

I wasn't posting a love theory. In a sense you are right that it was limited to a little picture perspective, because of just being attracted to a shape. Beings can be attracted to shapes, to personalities, etc. (which are all information systems, anyway). If a personal computer or a robot is attracted to shapes you may not complain, but a computer and us are both information systems.

But how many women will act like the one in my example? And they wouldn't easily give like the one of my example because of all the fears that they have and probably Lena and you have as well. Most men and women just think of what can they take from the other one or what does the other wants to take from you. Not too many, just purely think of just how to give love and pleasure for the other one to feel better without any conditions. I have a more different view from a typical PMR view because of having experienced no fear giving and receiving in NPMR without the BS (stolen from Bette) that society broadcasts in this PMR.

In Star Trek episodes and other sci-fi movies others had a similar vision. There are episodes where they visit a planet and the beings there see it natural to offer pleasure to anybody (including visitors). No fear there. Of course no progress either if they just focus on pleasure all the time.

Clau

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Sex might be a part of the loving relationship, but sex as a physical act does not require love to be present. Physical desire of pleasure can be good enough. (Krishnamurti's explanation of pleasure and desire, and why both of them cannot be considered as a part of love is excellent.) To be caring and think about a partner at this moment depends on one's level of entropy or QoC, but PMR love is something else, much more than sex, though sex is a part of love between man and woman. I know that words sex and love used interchangeably, but it brings only more confusion in PMR understanding what love and Love are.

Lena

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

Jiddu Krishnamurti, The Only Revolution
and more...
The Way of Intelligence

Lena

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

Thank you Clau, we are making progress, hey?

Lumpy, he didn't have to, I did it, right? ;)
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Hi Lena:

I don't think there is a PMR love as something defined for everybody. Love or love are just metaphors and each being interpretation of it is different. I like how Tom made it simple by just defining love or better Love as the state of lowest entropy. I think you are focusing just in one aspect of my post but not really giving an opinion about what I see as people in PMR not quite evolved on how to handle "giving", being love, pleasure, affection, sex, help, etc., without conditions, without thinking of what they can get or other conditions they would like.

I don't think sex is a part of love, at all. They don't need to be connected. They are, just because society and beliefs make it so. Sex is driven by pleasure created by the PMR rule-set through sexual sensors as part of the body interface. All that of relating sex and love is just a man/woman creation that then society broadcasts and people just do what others do. When you can get out of what everybody else does and just re-think, re-feel without those beliefs you can see and feel things differently.

Let's say you want to become a more evolved being. In the PMR there are only 3 people left in the world, two men and you. You want to evolve and you want to make them feel good and give them hapinness. One man asks you for sex, because his body makes him feel the need for sex. The other man says he does not want sex, but he'd like some affection. Would you give them or try to give them what they ask for? If not, where is the ego and fear in all of this?

Clau

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

lol Consciousness porn, you should write some more Claudio. ;)
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Hi Lena:

He gave a good understanding of sex. The metaphor sex in NPMR can also be used as an expression of desire, a search for pleasure outside. I don't think it is so important to find the right definition of love if there is one, as long as you understand the different aspects as mentioned by JK. Love as an expression is a creation from within a being. We generate love and we can feel expressions of love. Anything that is external to us helps that expression to arise but it does not matter as much in my opinion. This is why I think "giving" is the main thing. Giving, creating, projecting is what's important, not the source or external stimuli that helps creating that. As Tom says we wouldn't feel different if our brains are plugged to a computer that generates our input. In the same token, if your perception of some external stimuli is for example coming from a real being or it is just computer generated (TBC or other CS source), it does not make a difference. It is about how you can lower your entropy and are able to generate and create love to give away without expectations or conditions nor external stimuli.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

lol ... whatcha talking about? Do you want me to be banned again?... I am trying to behave :) hahaha. I'd like you to enjoy vibrations. All the love and pleasure for you :)

Clau

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <