My red herring comment implied nothing about the Occupy membership or the scope of its appeal. I am saying that it is designed to deflect attention from the huge failure that we see in Washington and the horrible representation and lame decisions we see coming from that mess.

According to this article the Vancouver-based Adbusters came up with the "occupy Wall Street" idea.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... sters.html

The Leftist organizers in the USA had originally planned to do an occupy Washington DC protest but it looks like they opted for the Wall Street diversion instead, since the Senate and White House are both Democrat controlled... the DC protest, though more focused on the real problem, could be counter-productive for those trying to prop up Big Government as a solution to humanity's problems.

http://citizenactionmonitor.wordpress.c ... anization/
“We’re going to go to Freedom Plaza in Washington DC . . . and we’re going to occupy it beginning October 6. And we’re going to remain. And we’re going to non-violently interfere and shut down the offices of our government until we begin to get some improvements. . . . So we’re going to be there until we begin to take back control of our government. —David Swanson"

I find your comment, " The Tea Party is supposedly being irritated when parallels are drawn and claiming that the Occupy movement members are uneducated and unemployed" to be unfounded. Can you point to a link that shows this?

And a couple posts ago you said;

What various Republicans say that? I have never heard anything close to that. If you could better establish that with definitive data from a trusty source that you can point to as a link, it would be welcome.

I've never been married Randy although he has an ex-wife and a daughter with her that has nothing to do with him at all. He actually lost his drivers license recently from child support owed to her and she is in her 30s. His ex-wife is suppose to write and say she doesn't want it from him to make him be able to get his drivers license. She may or may not do that for him.

I have a guy who is a good person but very selfish and thinks the world owes him a living. Animals like him and he is kind. He's a bit touched in the head but then he would have had to have been, wouldn't he to have thrown away two families for drugs. I practice being patient with him but Katie (our daughter) thinks I am mean to him. His presence here if for the kids and he is a mean cleaner and he is starting to listen to what I have been telling him for years more so recently and me him.

Sex isn't an issue for me although one never knows what may happen. I tend to avoid it in the tiny amount of dating I did since kids (One guy two dates and he started talking about how he wants to have sex, no more dates) actually Randy I know exactly when I outgrew that. It was around 2003 when a mechanic from a local business driving me home tried to drive me home and after it got through to me he was flirting with me (I had to ask him "Are you flirting with me) and he was I turned him down because I had a teen aged daughter to be an example for, he had an older lady girlfriend, and I knew I would feel icky after. He was 23 and hot and several times I wondered if that had been my last chance for that type of sex you mention, but I made the correct choice. He actually tried the "Let me show you something" line that apparently many woman go for like one look and they lose control. It's sickening and the kids father did that to my "best friend" and she went for it back when I was pregnant with the twins and we were trying to escape town because he escaped from the police so I stashed him at her house to find a way out of town. She told me several years after. I should write a book. I associate him with aluminum. :)

What do you mean I might get sick? I have hepatitis C Randy two treatments no remission. Apparently he has it too. Katie is getting married on 11/11 and they will live with Art and I still. I'm going to sell my book and pull us all up out of this. The safety net keeps crumpling as we just had over $200 more a month cut.

The kids dad made Marley the dog able to be handled as his biggest gift besides the sperm and first thgree years as a really good hands on dad unable to stop drugs, lying, and stealing.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Rudolph,

I have thought that the Occupy movements were all about the failures of government all along. That seems pretty clear. They actually point the idea back to the Arab Spring protestors which were about governmental change, not about Wall Street. Regarding who had the idea for the Occupy movement, what is your point? It seems that many had a hand in the concept and seem to claim some degree of ownership of the idea. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... sters.html

I suggest that you set up to regularly read the news.google news of the world feed. You can customize it as you wish as to content and sources. All of my comments you refer to are based upon news articles that appeared there. I did not link those particular articles as not that memorable or definitive, or at least I can't find them at the moment, but a search on any search engine should readily bring up the same information from many sources as it did for me below. The following links were picked out of many others saying basically the same thing. The things you question seem to be quite well documented.

Stories about Tea Party dislike of comparisons with Occupy movement: http://www.onthemedia.org/2011/oct/14/t ... ll-street/

Story about Ron Paul's aide's death: http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics ... e-scenario

Story about Tea Party member's applause and laughter responses: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnntea-party ... e-man-die/

Electrified Border Fence at Tea Party Rally: http://www.drudge.com/news/149377/cain- ... rder-fence http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011 ... as-a-joke/

I think that you will find that most of the Republican primary competitors were involved at one time or the other, these being comments made at Republican debates and rallies, in one way or the other and they are now embarrassed and trying to talk their way out of what they earlier said.

Ted

wow!

I will just repeat that literature is a story with a counter-entropic message/teaching woven within it - consider that your book, which I assume is non-fiction, may be more valuable if you weave in your life story, and maybe add a third note, how MBTOE is helping you. Look at how they do it on Gray's Anatomy (which she who must be obeyed makes me watch), action-commentary-action-commentary

I would also write it with a screen play in mind if you are going to get some serious change out of this, so think of how it would pace out as a film. Regardless, you will have to live with the results of your decisions in this regard, so don't let me bully you into anything that does not also make sense for yourself.

It would be fun if you were to post a few pages a day on this website for discussion/comment, with Ted's permission, and we could cheer you on.

Also, keep your eyes open for an alternate way out of your situation - I find that if I make an intense effort to solve a problem, AUM/agent of AUM has mercy on my pathetic efforts and comes up with a solution from an unexpected direction.

I think the message of MBTOE is that our impulse to save/improve the world is more effectively redirected to saving/improving ourselves, which is actually something within our power to do, and if we see some progress on that front, we try to save/improve our partners/significant others, and spending a lifetime trying to save/improve them (99% loving intent->decisions->actions, 1% expanding their decision space at the mental level), is a highly suitable expenditure of our emotional energy, even if it totally consumes a life cycle. Of course, it is for you to figure out the most profitable balance between engagement/involvement/compassion and structure/safety/sustainability for your particular circumstances.

that letter may be easier to get if someone shows up at her door with some flowers/booze/grass with the letter already typed out and pen at hand...pick a time of day/day of week where she is most likely to be in a good humour and the person who she is most likely to respond positively too. Maybe even pay an off duty cop or send a male strip O gram...whatever you think will work....if indeed he can be trusted with liscence.

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

It took me a while to figure out what "letter" you were saying a bribe might help get Randy. The letter my ex needs from his ex to get his license back? The way I think you think if very seriously not outward based it feels to me as I interpret your symbols...

Why would you assume his ex-wife would be motivated by "flowers/booze/grass" that's just not correct.

The book I am writing currently will be a series of books almost limitless because in the story that IS basically my families life in 20-30 years in a mucked up Reality with my daughter telling her twins a story about an alternative Reality frame beginning in a PMR with the rules of this one but with ability to access for ROTEs for a few specific things that change everything and where "open access" is always practiced (meditation is normal). It is Clan of the Cave Bear meets Left Behind as far as underground networks for not mucked up food but without religion meets MBT meets what is wrong in the government and environment today and the effects it may have on. Since I'm still in the story it's a fairy tale but it could happen. In the story in the story they haven't even developed language yet and the Reality falling out can go as far as people want to read about while eventually the story will deal with death as will the story in a story. All norms get to be reworked, what death means, what to do with the body, how to live, everything.

All legal ways of pulling ourselves up from this are open except finding some man to do it in the traditional way because that is the tradition, finding a man to take care of the woman. Women trick men into marriage in order to be taken care of and I refused to do so. Things take a bit longer here but it'll get done eventually. I don't count on anything other than the fact that I'm working towards something and can count on me to keep doing so. I entered a contest that Donna sent me that might provide $5000 to get this first book edited and published yesterday and a friend on facebook just asked me about doing publishing and wanting to know if I want her to work with me. I think that is what she said...

But of course I am not expecting to win that but I do expect something will happen to help the cool parts of the future Reality I am creating for my family in this book comes true and then maybe be able to help the not cool parts (environmental because of greed) not come true.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

"The things you question seem to be quite well documented."

Lots of total BS is well documented.

I did not ask about "dislike of comparisons with Occupy movement", Ted. (there's that leftist trick I mentioned earlier -- add, drop, or alter a word or change word order)

"But the Tea Party–or parts of it–objects to that comparison."

Ummm. ... So I have to click on links within the leftwing links to try to find some basis for your claim?

Hahaha... "the Tea Party... or PARTS OF IT"... ???

are you serious?

I can provide all sorts of clips of the Occupy movement that show clearly that PARTS OF IT are totally out to lunch.

So... if you could please, Ted, provide links AND a relevant clip the way I did above to show what part of the big wild goose chase that you sent me on following all those irrelevant links, actually demonstrate the impossibly absurd claim that you made and I challenged.

Ted>"As various Republicans say, if they can't afford health insurance, then they can just die or if they try to come into the country illegally, then just kill them at the border, resulting in laughter and applause from those who would love to bring us another Hitler for the modern age."

So... you are trying to justify that sort of libel and slander with some grossly misrepresented quip?

What does an electrified border fence have to do with my question? (A suggestion of an electrified fence does not equal "killing"... and get to the "Hitler" part if you would please).

??

So then... can we talk about the dope-tokin' Occupy losers demanding $20/hr minimum wage... no wait... cut to bubblehead claiming there should be a "no money" economy... wait...cut to Occupy protester upset that there is no port-a-potty handy when he needs one... "hey, this police car should do nicely"... :))

?

Two can play this game.

The Republicans I know "L-U-V", love the Occupy debacle... it just underscores and highlights what the Left is all about. They are luvin it.

;)

Rudolph,

You can be a regular board member if you can get off your ranting kick. You have been so posting in an entirely satisfactory manner. I wrote above basically agreeing with what you said. The links that I provided at your request are perfectly ordinary high listed links off of Google search. There were many more as I pointed out. One must either state things of substance as to why these particular links are incorrect or accept them. Every time I present you with specifics, questions or statements, you simply avoid answering the questions and start another rant. You have not ever caught on that nothing that I said was praising liberals above conservatives. It is perfectly rational to know that one must consider the cost of things and cannot continue to live on borrowed money. No one ever advocated this, only you ranted against what was never actually said. It is likewise not rational to deliberately reduce legitimate tax income and then state that on the basis of this reduced income, one is to shut down the government in effect as if you had not caused the problem in the first place.

Tom wrote me back after you wrote complaining of your treatment and advised me that he had looked at the thread and found the only one ranting about politics to be you. He noted that the rest of the thread in general involved principles from MBT. It is clear to me that a number of members learned useful things from that thread. I am not going to delete it and Tom has not asked me to do so. But you will learn to not rant about politics or you will not continue to post on this board. Do you understand? You are certainly intelligent enough to understand this if not carried away by partisan sentiments. This is not open to further discussion, even if you can maintain civility, on the board. Send me an e-mail or PM. Just keep in mind that I do not plan to argue with an irrational point of view.

Ted as Administrator

Randy,




If I remember correctly, when he said that changing the system having no change, he was reffering to a military dictator being violently overthrown, and replaced with a new dictator. And I agree with that, you cannot defeat "evil" with "evil", and you cannot defeat anger with anger, you can only defeat anger with love.
During the womens liberation movement they said "What do you expect to change? what good will this do?"
Improving yourself is important, but improving the quality of your choices and interactions with others is where the true nature of our intentions are revealed. We can never separate ourselves from our environment. We are inseparable from our environment, And you can never truly understand an organism unless you observe it interacting within its own natural environment.

When I was younger I played the game of monopoly a lot. but there was always that one kid that was caught stealing money from the bank. Or the one that would always get caught miscounting the squares when it was his roll of the dice, conveniently ending up on "community chest" instead of the property with "Hotels" on it, unfairly avoiding their penalties. And making up their own rules.

How long do you allow a cheater to remain in the game before you call "FOUL"?

The game is great fun when everyone plays by the rules. But whenever you discover that the one that has been winning for so long, was also cheating, it takes all the fun out of the game, and then its time to pack it up and put it away. Nobody wants to play with a cheater. Do you?

Sometimes if you dont stand FOR something, you stand AGAINST it. And by NOT making a choice you ARE making a choice. There are NO neutral players, according to TOM. Everyone chooses sides, whether they know it or not. What side are you on?

_________________
LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

if you actually want to change the system, you have to correctly perceive the levers and then position yourself to pull a lever

largely, history is nudged by the powerful, and whether it nudges in a profitable direction, or an unprofitable direction, is determined by who shows up - usually, there is a good side to the table and a more self serving side to the table, and often there is only one good guy against the mob, and often there is no good guy, its just the scoundrels slicing up the pie

as a wage and salary slave, one has virtually no power or role in this drama, and students, people on welfare and people too incompetent to even get on welfare, that populate the occupy movement, are an entertaining annoyance, but the passion is to be admired, it is age appropriate, and you have to start somewhere. Shall I scan you a photo of me at 20 in a poncho and beard, heading down the highway with a guitar strapped to the back?

in pre-democratic countries, this drama is determined with guns, in democratic countries the drama plays out at the ballot box....and the ballot box really really matters, contrary to loser mantra that all politicians are the same. Anyone who tries to instill change in a democratic system, separate from the ballot box, and does not show up with a gun, is joke. Anyone who shows up with a gun, is properly put in jail.

the pacifism of Ghandi only worked because the tactic was targeting a relatively advanced democratic country, Great Britain. It is pointless when there is an established democratic mechanism, and futile when the opponent is high entropy (ie. Tibet vs China).

For myself, I am about actually getting something done. That means the hard work of door to door canvassing in campaigns, political donations, direct lobbying of senior politicians at political events, ...within the limits of the law, loyalty to my employer, and true to my security clearance.

MBTOE is about seriously, absolutely, passionately, ... dropping in, not dropping out or pooping on police cars. Tom himself mentioned political lobbying that he himself has done.

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Really Randy. Your words and obvious BS behind them are in line with the "joke" about tokers at Occupy and it's so much BS. The rich use the police as their private army as they create violence and then pretend that they didn't as is happening in Rome probably. The police State is happening right now in an Occupy and should be the last because the 99% has more people to come in and Occupy. Heck perhaps that's where we will end up if I can find a place for the animals for awhile. The system is broken, for example, state aid we get for Arthur's care is taxable but has no tax taken out so at the end of the last two years since Art turned 21 I have had to pay taxes. This last year I could not pay taxes so the state is garnishing the actual help at 25% until the tax I couldn't pay on the tax dollars we get is paid out of the assistance monies. Broken.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Randy,
I am sorry but you are misinformed and incorrect in so many ways and on many levels.



Wrong, the system has been corrupted so badly that our problems cannot be fixed through the electoral process alone. Obama was elected in a LANDSLIDE of overwhelming support for "CHANGE". Including Ending the war and helping people (none of these changes has occured).
Obama must be concerned with the main contributors to his campaign ...The Banks and Wall Street (who are profiting from the war spending, foreclosures and they even found ways to profit from economic collapse, by privatizing profit and socializing the losses)
So we cannot allow the "machine" to keep running uninterupted, because keeping silent and doing nothing is no longer an option, and, simply voting for a new candidate is inadequate






This is quite a judgement from someone who has aparently never "DROPPED IN" to see WHO EXACTLY these protesters are and what their message really is.

I have been down to Zuccotti Park (more than once) in support for this movement, and I have seen people of ALL ages, cultural backrounds, and education levels. I have seen people come from far and wide to support it. Last weekend I met a Buddhist from Maryland, and a hippy from Woodstock, a grandmother from the westside and a group of Doctors and nurses, from area hospitals going through "budget cuts" ( They have closed 3 hospitals in my area already and tried to close 4 but protests did make a difference. But it is always social services that get cut first)

I do have a job and I am a wage slave, I am NOT on welfare and never have been. (but I suspect that I would be smart enough to if need be, and I am glad we have social safety nets like welfare and social security to help people survive during tough times and old age) I am over 50 but in many ways I am STILL a student. This band of "Lunatic Fringe" protesters is the true face of patriotism in this country.

http://www.evolver.net/user/oddedges/bl ... ch_end_fed

Obviously someone can hear the voices of the protesters



This seems a bit contradictory, How is it it effective against an "advanced democratic country", such as Great Britain, yet "pointless" when there is an "established democratic mechanism" ? (like the USA?)
Or are you saying that America more closely resembles China than Britain?

By the way you should probably do some research into the East India Company
http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/Hi ... /EAco.html

They were a fairly ruthless, but extremely profitable company that had its own private army and even collected revenues from the native indians. They were the first wave of Britons entering India setting the stage for the total Colonization of the Country of India. They brutalized the citezenry of India for nearly 250 years.
Do you see any parallels to the United States today? we have more private soldiers in Iraq today than actual US military personel, The amount of "privatization" of this war is repugnant because it is for NO other reason other than PROFIT (the short term kind) and it is not only interfering with the free will, and the Robbery of Iraqi people it is also stealing from the American taxpayer.

_________________
LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

from here it looks like the California public sector unions are out of control and have created an unsustainable burden, and you are starting to feel the meaning of unsustainable - which means persons such as yourself and your son who legitimately merit support, but have no political power, will suffer, while those empowered by the public sector union shakedown retire to Mexico on their rich public pensions. Public sector unions are an economic abomination that eventually destroys its host. Well, same goes for private companies as well, but that's not your particular problem. Up here, the unions are very much behind occupy, as it serves as a misdirection from the actual problem.

it all comes down to the organic process of permitting markets to clear and find profitable voids, and avoiding the entropy of coerced artificial constraints on organic decision space, and doubling our efforts to help those who truly cannot help themselves

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

indeed...part of the political maturation process is waking up to the fact that republican leaders (the openly conservatives ones more so) are conservatives in essence who tell the truth, and democratic leaders are conservatives in essence who's business model is bald faced lying to confused.

imagine my confusion at age twenty or so to find the leader of my socialist leaning party sending his kids to a snooty private school

If you look at Obama's life and decisions, he is obviously through and through a conservative, and his words are gauged to achieve and hold onto power, and it appears to me that AUM provided this leader so that the left would follow and support the difficult decisions that need to be made, to mitigate the division in the country.

occupy will have some benefits, but not what you think. If you wish to channel this energy productively, you need an "occupy electoral district board of directors" movement and engage the actual system - the scoundrels love occupy, as it is a misdirection from the actual game.

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

The citizens of India could not vote in UK elections...no rep by pop, so the tactic was appropriate, and effective due to the target which had a sufficiently high QoC to be responsive to the tactic. That tactic did not work for the Tibetans, and I believe the Dalai Lama has since renounced state pacifism.

Yes, the East India company and British Parliament are separate entities - the target was the latter

Their was a range of decision space available to each colonial power, with Britain being on the lower entropy end, and Italy being on the higher entropy end...Italy actually formally apologized to its former colonies. Planetary wise, any country touched by British colonialism greatly benefited on the whole, and why this is the case is a subject of intense curiosity. Virtually all of the democratic order on the planet is due to British-based institutions and values.

Profit generally results when resources are combined to form something new that has value greater than the sum of its parts, that someone is willing to pay for at a price that covers the cost of inputs plus a return to capital investment = profit
This organic process is the foundation and essence of PMR activity. There is much ugliness and inconvenience to this system, but the alternative is much much worse.

75% of the intent behind Bush/Obama interventions in the middle east is discomfort with tyranny, 20% is keeping the battle line well away from soccer moms, and 5% is protecting the oil pipeline. Iraq and Afghanistan may be the last acts of dying superpower, but its was a great way to finish up. Now we get to see how Putin and China run things and make comparisons.

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Randy,

In light of this great wisdom, based upon economics, that you claim, please explain the following sequence of facts and events and why they have not been clearly demonstrated as the truth of the situation.

1) Based upon then existing tax policy and rates, a budget surplus existed.
2) The US government under a Republican administration modifies that tax policy, reducing the rate applied to the highest incomes and introducing a number of loopholes that benefit large corporations and financial institutions. Furthermore, regulations on financial institutions existing since after the Great Depression and intended to avoid the causes of that recession in unrestrained financial activity are repealed. This is purportedly to result in the creation of more jobs and the 'trickle down' of 'wealth' to the lower income members of society.
3) As a result of this change in tax and other policy, the country rapidly develops large balance sheet deficits and begins to borrow heavily.
4) During the subsequent decade, there is a vast transfer of wealth from the least wealthy 99+% of citizens to 1-% of citizens, increasing this pre existing imbalance of income and accumulated wealth. There is demonstrably no 'trickle down' and no job creation and the creation of a depression rivaling the earlier Great Depression.
5) Political ideologues of the right within Congress disrupt government by insisting that this budgetary imbalance be addressed by shutting down governmental services to reduce spending. They even advocate default of the country's debts to the point of nearly bringing down the economy and even damaging the world economy based upon lack of faith in the competence and self interest of the US government to be able to hit the ground with a rock.
6) These same, truthful by your claim, ideologues of the right use this budgetary imbalance, self created by past actions of the US government as both the Legislative and Executive branches, to demand the maintenance of the tax rate reductions and loopholes of the past on the basis that they will stimulate the economy, crate jobs and trickle down to the poor.

To quote youHow do you possibly justify this statement in light of the above cited sequence?

Ted