Montana,

You are doing exactly what Rudy has been doing when I suggest that he read something and actually respond to it. It is too much trouble for you to read those 14 pages to see the truth of what I have been saying about his ranting. Tom, busy as he is traveling, found the time to read sufficiently to confirm my comments that Rudy was ranting. What do you consider ranting to be? In my book it is simply stentoriously stating your opinion as fact, presenting no verifiable basis for your statements as fact and denying that the other is right in any way. Repeating continuously. When you actually read what I have had to say both here and elsewhere, I might consider your opinion. At present it is too uninformed for me to consider.

Ted

Don't consider it then.

But if you expect people to sort through 14 pages of gah to find the thing you decline to take the time to quote yourself...~~~ ...um... not going to happen.

In fact, with that last post, you sound exactly chargeable with the crimes you there attribute to another: Stentorian statements of opinion with no solid reference to the substance of your complaint.

Yuck~

Oh that reminds me http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 8rQNdBmPek
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Be realistic Montan. You questioned things based upon insufficient information, you know that it is truly insufficient by your statements. You then want me to go back through the 14 pages that you could quickly skim and provide a listing of specifics. My point is distributed throughout the context of those 14 pages. There was a logical development. I read everything that goes up in this board, only perhaps missing something if more new posts were made than I knew of so I fail to go back far enough. As an old, retired man, my time is obviously worth nothing in the normal consideration of things. But I have more to do than time to do it. You don't know the long list of valuable things to contribute that are not getting done.

At the same time, there is a thread on basically how to seduce women. When I make negative comments about it they are ignored. When I state that I am considering locking it, there is a great cry of please don't, we find it so valuable. So I leave it hoping that someone will learn something related to MBT out of it as there are some perhaps useful insights being developed. The threads that I put up which I specifically steer toward MBT concepts, you want to shut down. You ignore the fact that I have reported that Tom has been made aware of them and agrees with me that Rudy is the one ranting. Tom's response towards the petition to Indict Congress was "Go Ted". Sorry that you don't like what you consider the political aspects of this but that is your problem. I don't relate it to politics but to the intransigence and stupidity of politicians. I simply hate to see the government, Congress, anyone do injury to others, violating their free will, through illogic and stupidity and venality.

Ted

As I said, the spending skyrocketed in 2006 under the Pelosi/Reid Congress. The recession was only the other half of the problem. The spending increase was like pouring gasoline on the debt fire. And the spending only got worse when Obama entered the WH and gave the Dems near complete power to spend willy-nilly.

Just look at the first graph on page two;
http://www.heritage.org/research/report ... mbers-2010

As I said, ask and you shall receive. Quote me exactly and ask directly for the data to back up a specific claim and I am happy to provide the data. If you ambiguously wave at a post and make muddled generalizations I can not know what it is you are asking for.

Rudy.

This however Rudy is not a cause and effect correlation. It is a matter of reasoning of the post hoc, ergo propeter hoc type which is a well known type of logical fallacy.

This proves nothing and refutes nothing that I said. At least that was an attempt at proof and thus an improvement instead of just a statement to be accepted upon your authority alone. I really wish that you would go back to links to data that I posted all along at various time and look at it. The data which I refer to in the post above is included that show what I said. I have posted links referring back to this before and don't care to search it out yet again. Better to just drop it and you maintain your beliefs without subjecting us to them as absolutes.

Ted

I didn't say it was, and it wasn't intended to refute anything you said. It was a reply to your request for the data to backup my claim about debt acceleration in 2006.

The Pelosi spending skyrocketed in 2006. With both House and Senate in Dem hands, Bush had to go along in order to get funding for the military and war effort.

The recession was inevitable at that point since the real estate bubble bursting was looonnng in the making, since the Carter era, when the first trillion$ were allocated for what are now termed 'NINJA' loans (No Income, No Job or Assets). That amount was doubled under Clinton. It was just a matter of time before the bubble burst and there was little to be done about it at that point.

The real-time out of control spending, however, was completely within our ability to control at that point.

Just say no.

;)

Rudy.

I just found out that "the government" already owns my home even before any foreclosure sale (delayed until 12/16/11 now) and that Chase is simply "servicing" the governments property. wtf I'm a derivative so now what? This is also one Occupy interest.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Occupy Ridgecrest?

_________________
LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

I'm considering it although now Katie says people won't do it form fear of being fired if they work because of how conservative this town is.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Prisoners of their own FEAR

_________________
LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

so, you are encouraging employed Ridgecresters to put their jobs at risk?

are you "occupying" in your town and putting your paycheck at risk?

fearlessness must be combined with logic to achieve effectiveness, and effectiveness is meaningful...its all not just data. Part of the mission is to be self supporting and take care of our love circle, and then beyond that... as Tom says...as if it were real.

some fear is actually rational, real enough, and part of being an effective FWAU

what you are espousing is a sort of TOE fundamentalist "all fear is bad" idea - a la the devil telling Jesus to throw himself from the steeple so that God would save him

it would be more productive if the frustrated were to turn their gaze to the mirror and honestly ask why they are bouncing along the bottom of the capitalistic food chain, develop some discipline and get back to school or otherwise acquire credentials to increase the value of their work to others, or start a business on the side, move to an area with jobs, or something.

your problem, is always you

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Randy,

I think if you will read the articles, you will find that those participating in Occupy events and encampments are those who can do so. They are unemployed, students with some free time, intellectuals who are involved in society, older people who are retired. The same who opposed the war in Vietnam. I could myself find the time to go but would either have to take my walker because of the distances involved from the bus stop or get someone to drop me off there with my electric 'mobility' cart. Otherwise I could only sit on a bench or the ground until someone helped me up again as I can't stand around holding a sign or such for very long. I think that I am more useful here. There are a lot of negatives that go with protesting by putting your body in front of hostile police in riot gear with the FBI and the 'internal security apparatus' organizing them and egging them on.

This does not reduce the truth of what the Occupiers have to say. It is true that one must develop one's own self, one's QOC and lower one's entropy as an individual by the quality of their interactions with others. But part of those quality interactions is to join in with others to curb the excessive acts of suppression of the 1% as they use their wealth and power to manipulate and control the government and government agencies to reduce the free will of those 99% who are not wealthy and thereby in a position to buy power. Do you seriously believe that a government controlled by the vastly wealthy and biggest corporations to support their further sequestration of wealth and do so by suppressing the 99% from whom that wealth is extracted or who produce it by their labor is a good and sustainable course for society?

Just like sustainable agriculture as one must fertilize soil to repeatedly produce crops from it. One cannot deal with members of society on the basis of slash and burn primitive agriculture. One must have a balance of taking care of the 99% if the 1% are to have anyone to sell their gadgets and gewgaws to in order to create their wealth. Being two year olds all together perhaps puts this concept beyond their easy comprehension, but it is a lesson that must be learned. The big corporations and financial organizations cannot continue to simply move from country to country on a 'slash and burn' basis seeking ever cheaper labor and lax tax, labor and other laws forever. Particularly not when the 99% are fully as intelligent and creative as the 1%. It will catch up with you and be forced upon your attention, gated community and paid off politicians or not.

Ted

This is the bottom line, really and it is something that envy ridden Leftists just don't get. They are so lost in their fear of hard work and a hard life and envy towards those who have more than they do they can't seem to get any traction in the self-help realm of entropy reduction.

My son graduated into this recession and could not find any more than a part-time job. He needed money to pay the rent so he sold some of his stuff. He was surprised how well certain things sold. Then he noticed the same things could be found at garage sales and second hand shops, etc. and he bought them and re-sold them quickly. This grew into a full fledged small business and he was soon buying scanners, bar code readers, office equipment, shipping supplies in bulk....

We even took a 5-day acquisition tour of neighboring states and came home with the car fully loaded down with merchandise and scraping asphalt on every bump. A few months ago he called and said, "Dad, we just had a record month. If this keeps up I could possibly clear a six figure profit in the coming year."

Of course then the inevitable happened. About a week later the supervisor called him into the big boss's office and they offered him a raise and a full time job. But the salary was paltry so he had to tell them that he appreciated the offer and that he would love the job but it really was not enough to live on considering how well his small business was going. They immediately added a 27% raise and larded it up with all sorts of benefits. He starts full time next week. (and they said they would allow him time off to pursue his small biz on the side!) :))

The Lard works in mysterious ways.

Rudy.

Randy you try to guilt me and Rudy you use envy and fear of hard work and a hard life which are all not smart ideas and trapped belief systems BS. It's okay because we'll be nice but you all are dinosaurs.
Love
Bette

PS I'm watching an Occupy LA event live and they are spinning it so hard. They say the cops are there to prevent violence when it is the cops who present the violence. There has also been use of the Patriot Act and private security forces used against the citizens too.

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.