Return Home

My Big Toe Forum

Discussion and explanation of the writings of Tom Campbell

To register for the forum, click here

It is currently Thu May 23, 2013 11:15 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:23 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:05 am
Posts: 134
Location: Modesto, Ca
Quote:
From this fertile mental ground, an intellect that thinks or at least thinks it thinks,eventually develops. Now it is time for individuated consciousness to pay the price for munching those tasty apples - the ability to think, reason and exercise free will (or at least emulate those processes) ...


Am I reading to much into "... thinks it thinks ..." and "... (or at least emulate those processes) ..." In other words am I in for a new reality concerning my thinking that I think, etc.? The inferences on the above two phrases are quite distinct and on a par level with knowing that I know I think and that I know that I have the abilities of thinking, reasoning and exercising free will, not emulating them but in fact displaying those abilities.

I am continuing on with my reading. I may run into the answer directly but if not, I await an answer and will keep this particular paragraph in mind, expecting to be shown that I'm only thinking that I think, etc.

That revelation will definitely be a new one for me. If I am not doing this, who or what is?

_________________
May you be the consciousness.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:34 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:16 pm
Posts: 7067
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
I am not sure precisely what Tom refers to there. He makes it clear along in his books that our five senses data does not come from our bodies but rather from TBC to simulate the fact that we have a body within PMR as our PMR body is also a simulation. Have you covered the part yet where the relative speeds of the base Consciousness system, of NPMR and of PMR are described? Where NPMR 'clock ticks' are described as just a very small fraction of the rate for the base system? And where PMR 'clock ticks' are described as just as small a fraction of the rate for that of NPMR? So does that tell you that your IUOC, which is part of the mind of AUM as well as being the whole mind of yourself as you experience NPMR and as you experience PMR thinks at a rate, even here in relatively slow PMR, that is fantastically fast as a digital consciousness than PMR science can even begin to measure? Does that tell you anything about the thoughts that pass through your mind as we function here in PMR on the basis of thousandths and hundredths of a second? What Tom is not telling you in the beginners book is pointing this out directly, although he obviously must know it as nothing I have ever asked him about as some advance on what he has said, he could point it out in the books as at least a hint, and that therefore, while TBC does not think your thoughts for you, it must select out for you what is representative from those thoughts what you become conscious of. Otherwise they would fly past at such a rate that you could not possibly, with PMR consciousness, be aware of them.

Now whether this phrase you point out is such a hint, I do not know. But as I say, I have made advances on what Tom clearly says and every time he can point out in TBC that he already knew it but you have to figure it out first to see that he did already write about it. He knows that he has things sort of 'hidden in plain sight' there that you only catch onto when you are ready. That is part of why everyone who has read the books repeatedly as I have reports that we keep finding more things to learn that we somehow never noticed on the previous readthroughs. Some implication that goes deeper but you don't see until you are ready to notice it, having assimilated your previous readings with time and being ready to understand more deeply now.

Ted


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:16 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:43 pm
Posts: 329
From my view it appears you read a bit much into it but not that you're totally mistaken. I read his quote "or at least think that it thinks" as a joke. Like he does all the time; teasing the little grandois selves with their grandois consciousnesses.

He does say, somewhere, that there's a change when a conscioussness becomes aware of its consciousness, a moment when it can start programming itself, and that this have a big impact on the development. I think you've reached that a long time ago. But it increases all the time. You will have change and you create it yourself, through your intentions and expectations. But I don't know.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:29 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:05 pm
Posts: 1146
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I agree with k0liver, that it is written in a joking manner.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:23 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:05 am
Posts: 134
Location: Modesto, Ca
Hi Ted,

For myself, I am fully aware of the speeds of thoughts in NPMR and PMR. What is real to me is that thought is truly from the realm of NPMR. The fact that the origination of thought is from TBC is a new concept. Being skeptical of that I believe that it ultimately can come from AUO but not in all cases. There is also the free-will originations.

So I can see what you are alluding to. I can also imagine that as one advances in consciousness, one will also have the ability to know where all of one's thoughts originate. There is AUO, others, another and oneself. If one were to imagine that all of their thoughts were self originated, then one would obviously think they were doing the thinking when they were not. This is a common symptom of the not-to-bright.

Once again for myself, I have been aware of other than my own thoughts appearing in my thoughts and have readily debunked and discarded them upon entry. I have had this facility for so long at my disposal that it is easily and readily applied in weeding out thoughts that are non-sequitur and group derived along with other's individual thoughts. Such typically, although not always non-sequitur are generally inappropriate as a viewpoint or certainly as a means to an optimal action. I really have to say that this ability is couched in being able to entertain several ideas at the same time and picking the most viable/productive without getting stuck with the first thing in or stuck with a pattern of what was always entertained in the past. And yes, there is the situation where an outside idea is just absolutely brilliant and one learns. I have definitely found such jewels in MBT.

In addition, there is always the situation when another obviously cannot entertain anything other than his own robotic, always think and do this activity. This is most pronounced when you verbally espouse an idea to another that goes nowhere. At times this all can be overcome with command value but in truth, I find that kinda boring, un-sophisticated and leading to responsibility/blame being mined into one's field of play. Really no fun at all. Certainly it is an ego thang. However I feel that on rare occasion there is the necessity employ command value when averting certain catastrophe. Those situations do come up that one finds themselves in. For myself, under such circumstances I have had paranormal solutions.

_________________
May you be the consciousness.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:35 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:19 pm
Posts: 175
PTipon wrote:
If one were to imagine that all of their thoughts were self originated, then one would obviously think they were doing the thinking when they were not. This is a common symptom of the not-to-bright.


Or of Gods of their own universes, perhaps. Like the Point in Flatland http://downlode.org/Etext/flatland/part2.html:

Quote:
"Behold yon miserable creature. That Point is a Being like ourselves, but confined to the non-dimensional Gulf. He is himself his own World, his own Universe; of any other than himself he can form no conception; he knows not Length, nor Breadth, nor Height, for he has had no experience of them; he has no cognizance even of the number Two; nor has he a thought of Plurality; for he is himself his One and All, being really Nothing. Yet mark his perfect self- contentment, and hence learn this lesson, that to be self-contented is to be vile and ignorant, and that to aspire is better than to be blindly and impotently happy. Now listen."

He ceased; and there arose from the little buzzing creature a tiny, low, monotonous, but distinct tinkling, as from one of your Spaceland phonographs, from which I caught these words, "Infinite beatitude of existence! It is; and there is none else beside It."

"What," said I, "does the puny creature mean by it'?" "He means himself," said the Sphere: "have you not noticed before now, that babies and babyish people who cannot distinguish themselves from the world, speak of themselves in the Third Person? But hush!"

"It fills all Space," continued the little soliloquizing Creature, "and what It fills, It is. What It thinks, that It utters; and what It utters, that It hears; and It itself is Thinker, Utterer, Hearer, Thought, Word, Audition; it is the One, and yet the All in All. Ah, the happiness ah, the happiness of Being!"

"Can you not startle the little thing out of its complacency?" said I. "Tell it what it really is, as you told me; reveal to it the narrow limitations of Pointland, and lead it up to something higher." "That is no easy task," said my Master; "try you."

Hereon, raising my voice to the uttermost, I addressed the Point as follows:

"Silence, silence, contemptible Creature. You call yourself the All in All, but you are the Nothing: your so-called Universe is a mere speck in a Line, and a Line is a mere shadow as compared with - " "Hush, hush, you have said enough," interrupted the Sphere, "now listen, and mark the effect of your harangue on the King of Pointland."

The lustre of the Monarch, who beamed more brightly than ever upon hearing my words, shewed clearly that he retained his complacency; and I had hardly ceased when he took up his strain again. "Ah, the joy, ah, the joy of Thought! What can It not achieve by thinking! Its own Thought coming to Itself, suggestive of Its disparagement, thereby to enhance Its happiness! Sweet rebellion stirred up to result in triumph! Ah, the divine creative power of the All in One! Ah, the joy, the joy of Being!"

"You see," said my Teacher, "how little your words have done. So far as the Monarch understands them at all, he accepts them as his own - for he cannot conceive of any other except himself - and plumes himself upon the variety of Its Thought' as an instance of creative Power. Let us leave this God of Pointland to the ignorant fruition of his omnipresence and omniscience: nothing that you or I can do can rescue him from his self-satisfaction."

_________________
Everything is simpler than we can imagine, at the same time more complex and intertwined than can be comprehended--Goethe, Maxims & Reflections


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:49 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:16 pm
Posts: 7067
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Paul,

I think that you misunderstand. I am not saying that your thoughts originate anywhere other than from you as your IUOC which is your mind, just dividing its attention between serving as part of AUM, serving as a continuous experience of NPMR and also serving as your present experience of PMR on a time sharing basis. Your thoughts only originate from that portion of the attention of your IUOC that is devoted to its functioning as you here in PMR. I am pointing out that as an IUOC/digital consciousness that thinks at a vastly higher rate than your PMR consciousness can follow, TBC must select out a primary focus for your thought and give you that to be aware of as you simply cannot be aware of all that transpires within your PMR related thought stream. If you were aware of it, it would just be a 'blur' as if flashes past and you would really be aware of none of it.

Ted


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:36 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:05 am
Posts: 134
Location: Modesto, Ca
Hi s.lareck and Ted,

I feel that I have not conveyed to both what was meant. For s.lareck, I know that all thoughts that exist are more than just my own. Others in PMR and NPMR also communicate to me with their thoughts and I do not designate or take them as my own but as sourced from others, those other individuated segments of AUM, NPMR and PMR.

Ted, the same is true here. I was not conveying that 'my' thoughts come from anywhere else but from me. I can also see that as you further explain that my thoughts also come from those parts of me that are AUM, NPMR and PMR inasmuch as I am an individuated part of those too. I went on to say that there are thoughts from others which through various means of conveyance that I am also aware of.

Quote:
TBC must select out a primary focus for your thought and give you that to be aware of as you simply cannot be aware of all that transpires within your PMR related thought stream.


I understand this. I would like to clarify that this action by TBC would also have to be under my direction and formulation or there would be those items not selected out, not focused upon which I would never be aware of or ever be able to be aware of. A clitch in one's free will and self determinism.

_________________
May you be the consciousness.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:32 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:16 pm
Posts: 7067
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Paul,

Be aware that it is necessary for you to have your 'conscious' thoughts provided by TBC. If not, you would be so busy 'thinking' your internal thought stream that you would not have time to actually do anything. Some people think about things obsessively. Some people have their internal thought stream turned off by a 'glitch' in processing as in Suzanne Segal. I personally asked that mine be turned off and eventually, it was. This is something that you have no normal choice over but you can have something to say about it. There is no way to tell TBC what to select for your conscious awareness instead. As I explained, you have no way to access all of it and make that choice of 'this' instead of 'that'. You can, with considerable effort have it all turned off. You can have it reduced if there is excessive 'rumination'. It does not violate your free will and as I have explained, you don't really have any choice. It is just the way the reality functions so live with it.

Ted


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:48 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:05 am
Posts: 134
Location: Modesto, Ca
Quote:
I personally asked that mine be turned off and eventually, it was. This is something that you have no normal choice over but you can have something to say about it. There is no way to tell TBC what to select for your conscious awareness instead. As I explained, you have no way to access all of it and make that choice of 'this' instead of 'that'. You can, with considerable effort have it all turned off. You can have it reduced if there is excessive 'rumination'. It does not violate your free will and as I have explained, you don't really have any choice. It is just the way the reality functions so live with it.


Fascinating! Tell me more about this. I understand what you are saying and agree with the inability to look at each and every 'thinking'. This is the first time that I have bumped into the phenomena where this stream of 'thinking' can be modified and even turned off (which I also agree is possible). My interest is not in getting it turned off or on but on what basis selectivity for presentation occurs. Is this selectivity completely out of one's control as well as one's inputs on what that profile is going to be as being out of one's control?

'nother question. On the basis that the stream of 'thinking' can be turned off and on, to whom, to what or to where would one address such petitions. And, given that, is that the same entity that one could petition for profile changes if that is even possible?

Paul

_________________
May you be the consciousness.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:29 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:16 pm
Posts: 7067
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Paul,

If you feel that you are dealing with specific 'guides', then ask them for help. If not, you are dealing basically with the LCS. Just ask during meditation when you are as disconnected as possible from PMR experience. This will have to likely be repeated until it is understood that you are serious and a reaction obtained. I have mentioned Bernadette Roberts and Suzanne Segal before on the board and their names on an Internet search brings them up readily. They have both published books describing their experiences.

I have no real knowledge of how TBC selects out of what must be passing to present as your thought. It has available everything and can discern the continuity of your concerns. You will make decisions as to what you wish to think about normally, unless you have a problem with rumination and perhaps even Obsessive/Compulsive disorder or OCD. TBC knows you better than you know yourself and barring glitches, knows what is your primary focus as time goes on. Tom has described how TBC or the LCS as you care to think about it knows us very well and can pretty accurately predict our choices out a reasonable way into the future based upon our most probable choices given the also predicted functioning of PMR. The Big Computer after all 'creates' the future of PMR based upon the rule set and computes it as a probability function. Our choices then actualize this probability function into the specifics of our experience. This results in the future probability data base as a tool of the system to look ahead to probable actions for planning purposes. But this is only the most probable future and we have free will to take alternative paths. The future is not set, just reasonably predictable with the resources available to the system. The system after all completely generates the representation of that future, it is just a matter of our steering with our free will choices which are predictable to a degree.

Ted


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:09 am 
Very interesting topic, one that i have thought about for decades, my feeling is that intent and pattern matching connects us to the TLC as to give us our thoughts from the available data banks. I think in this buttoned PMR from birth to now, that we have acquired a specific data bank of knowledge and thoughts that are accessed with our intent and pattering matching at all levels, within the speed cycle of our virtual brains processing capabilities. I have studied seizures and the placebo effect at stopping them due to thought control with intent, and know it to be effective. Another topic but very much related. So basically i think it is intent and pattern matching that mostly causes the rendering of our thoughts. Just some of my thoughts. Sabby


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 2:41 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:05 am
Posts: 134
Location: Modesto, Ca
Hi sabby,

Quote:
... my feeling is that intent and pattern matching connects us to the TLC as to give us our thoughts from the available data banks. I think in this buttoned PMR from birth to now, that we have acquired a specific data bank of knowledge and thoughts that are accessed with our intent and pattering matching at all levels, within the speed cycle of our virtual brains processing capabilities. ... So basically i think it is intent and pattern matching that mostly causes the rendering of our thoughts. Just some of my thoughts. Sabby


I presume you mean TBC, not TLC. That being the case, yes that does happen and in fact it can be shown scientifically that as individuals that we have contributed from our intent to that pattern over and across many previous lifetimes to our personal TBC data file.

I also know for myself and that it has also been shown and proved by and thru others that one does have the ability to change those patterns with new intent. On that basis it can also be said that the original intent can even be changed to null concerning particular patterns or to any new intent. In other words, one can change their minds and from then on under similar circumstances to earlier intents and patterns now operate with new intents and patterns. I would have to say that this is a form of generally improving one's life as to the way they lead it. It is also what I see as happening when one decreases entropy, basically the same scenario of improving one's life, becoming a better person. Of course I am only looking at it as one is improving their life and decreasing entropy, the opposite may also occur. It's a matter of being knowledgeable and intelligent in making changes for themselves as to how they will live in the future. It's also a matter of changing one's operations towards love vs. fear and avoidance.

I would also have to add that if one is really capable and has the intent to improve that, one can change their intent and patterns over and over again until they get it right. A simple example is training to perform a particular task better and better each time such as playing a piano or chess or just doing one's job better.

Paul

_________________
May you be the consciousness.


Last edited by PTipon on Sat May 05, 2012 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 2:42 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:05 am
Posts: 134
Location: Modesto, Ca
Quote:
... my feeling is that intent and pattern matching connects us to the TLC as to give us our thoughts from the available data banks. I think in this buttoned PMR from birth to now, that we have acquired a specific data bank of knowledge and thoughts that are accessed with our intent and pattering matching at all levels, within the speed cycle of our virtual brains processing capabilities. ... So basically i think it is intent and pattern matching that mostly causes the rendering of our thoughts. Just some of my thoughts. Sabby


I presume you mean TBC, not TLC. That being the case, yes that does happen and in fact it can be shown scientifically that as individuals that we have contributed from our intent to that pattern over and across many previous lifetimes to our personal TBC data file.

I also know for myself and that it has also been shown and proved by and thru others that one does have the ability to change those patterns with new intent. On that basis it can also be said that the original intent can even be changed to null concerning particular patterns or to any new intent. In other words, one can change their minds and from then on under similar circumstances to earlier intents and patterns now operate with new intents and patterns. I would have to say that this is a form of generally improving one's life as to the way they lead it. It is also what I see as happening when one decreases entropy, basically the same scenario of improving one's life, becoming a better person. Of course I am only looking at it as one is improving their life and decreasing entropy, the opposite may also occur. It's a matter of being knowledgeable and intelligent in making changes for themselves as to how they will live in the future. It's also a matter of changing one's operations towards love vs. fear and avoidance.

I would also have to add that if one is really capable and has the intent to improve that, one can change their intent and patterns over and over again until they get it right. A simple example is training to perform a particular task better and better each time such as playing a piano or chess or just doing one's job better.

Paul

_________________
May you be the consciousness.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 6:01 am 
Paul, my experience with intent especially a highly focused one is that this is how our reality is changed, rather it be for positive or a negative outcome, it is up to us for the most part in creating our reality whether we know it or not with our intent. Even the random things that happen to us by chance are by us choosing the path we are on Sometimes. Also there are things that happen to us randomly outside of our control, then it is up to us to choose what is best from the available data in our awareness. I talk a lot about fear as does Tom, because it is the biggest thing blocking the flow of thoughts coming into our awareness as to give us creative solutions to grow and to lower entropy. Once we realize that we follow out intent whether it be positive or negative we start to realize this is how reality works. It is up to us which way to go the feedback is there, intent changes modifies the future probabilities of the data (reality) coming into our awareness with what is possible according to the rule-set. Some of my views this morning. Sabby


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group