Much of MBT consolidates for me much of the spiritual teachings that exist
..provides a higher resolution of sorts into the big picture.
However, I cant but intuit, are we supposed to know the intricacies of the VR system?
Does this not detract from the effects intended?
So does it really aid us in learning/develpment.. when playing the game.. to be told / to know where the treasures are buried?

ic,
My answers would be, no, yes, and no, in that order. I also felt, when first coming here a year ago, that this was something "we" weren't suppose to know, but I was wrong on many levels. First off, "knowing" doesn't mean you can just go and manipulate the system as you will just by knowing, it means you have a better understanding of how things work so that when they work as they do it isn't so much of a surprise anymore, you can see how it works in a useful way thereby making choices that support the future you would like to see actualize. Next, see above. Then, do you know where the secret puzzle pieces/treasures are buried? If so, do tell, secrets go against my grain...I think they are right here, personally. Good thoughts, deep (good) questions, I hope this is useful data.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Apparently, "Tommy the Swami" (affectionatley) is compelled to get the message across at this time for some reason or to some end. I am on my third go around with the book and there are some interesting clues that are haunting me about this. He has drawn an incredible outline but he has not colored in the picture very much in fact he has downplayed in my mind all of the aspects except the bare model of reality.Tom does not seem to suffer trivia or fools who seek it. If one really backs off and looks at the whole of MBT media capsule then you start to see that his approach may be a meditation within itself. Perhaps his references to Lao Te Tzu are a clue. I believe that the Tao Te Ching is a good companion book for MBT and I recomend it for anyone embarking on the trilogy.

Just my 2 cents.

_________________
Shut up and meditate

Simba,

I too, have thought something very similar and also had the same intuitive response to Tom's "Tao Te Ching" reference. Tie that in with the iceberg analogy and well... I guess we'll have to wait and 'ask Tom' - "on the other side" -as it were, for the multidimensional colors we are missing... ;) Or something like that.


Cole

_________________
Never live so certainly as to confuse your own convictions with what is true.

Thanks for responding Cole

Yeah , when you realize what he is doing and how he is doing it, well, it becomes quite a formidable task and I don't think anyone has Tom's western experience or the personal constitution to pull it off. He is holding aces but you have to go there to see them for yourself. He is right not to spoon feed us. You have to admire that.

_________________
Shut up and meditate

Thanks for your input Bette, et al.,
I guess my real underlying question is.. are we to derive wisdom from experience or knowledge.

I intuit that data such as MBT can be disseminated and its acceptance not guaranteed by the reader (an uncertainty of sorts based on his/her "level"/"state"/"whatever").. and therefore does not necessarily translate into knowledge or wisdom for all who digest it.

It just seems to me that the knowledge being disseminated in more modern times has a higher resolution of sorts than that more esoteric in the past.. and thusly I am pondering the nature of this and its purpose..

Thoughts..?

ic: I guess my real underlying question is.. are we to derive wisdom from experience or knowledge.

Tom: Wisdom must be derived from experience. However, for experience to be understood and interpreted such that it has the potential to lead to wisdom, requires knowledge. Knowledge from a big picture perspective facilitates the conversion of experience into wisdom. All increases in one's quality of consciousness must take place at the being level, not at the intellectual level.

Hi Tom, yer book has been a rosetta stone of sorts for an eclectic tying together some esoteric loose ends. For this I'm thankful as it saves me some time and effort in the knowledge gathering/understanding/consolidation process.



"Wisdom must be derived from experience. However, for experience to be understood and interpreted such that it has the potential to lead to wisdom, requires knowledge"

Since one's situational existence in a PMR lifetime cannot possibly provide all experience needed to "graduate" (or is this too big an assumption), you imply that lifetime after lifetime must be spent in accruing wisdom.. for in your equation of sorts, there is a dependency on experience.
Granted one being's experience in even one existence could be much more varied and richer than another, yet does this mean we are generally burdened with having to definitely live an X number of additional lives? How best to optimize maximum experience? Awareness in the present?

Can it be said that wisdom = experience + knowledge
at higher grades, wisdom = experience + intuition ?



"All increases in one's quality of consciousness must take place at the being level"

What is being-level? Are you speaking of intent & direct experience?



Regards,
IC

Hi Tom:

I think I am doing this every night when processing with dreams and other NPMR experiences at different levels. I know it is not done in one night, and actually I see sometimes several iterations (repetitions with variations).
Am I hitting it right or may still be missing something?

Thanks,

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

In my understanding if we are using the word wisdom to imply a higher quality of consciousness than one with less wisdom, then building our wisdom occurs during our life experience packet here (the only experience I feel somewhat confident on having something useful to say about) as we "be" or are "being" in this experience packet. The data gathered is organized into more profitable knowledge in that the knowledge actually changes your quality of consciousness, your level of wisdom if you will, your choices and behaviors. When we die here and our virtual physical bodies no longer are needed, the wisdom, love, quality of consciousness that we are is what is conserved, as conservation of quality of consciousness. This is the "level" at which the next life experience packet this soul chooses will have to work with, once their VR physical development with all the meanings and contextual stuff built up to fight through, to get to where we are today, to where we seem to be going today, to get more or less organized in that new life experience packet, in my opinion. I always defer to more organized.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Bette, don't forget that we spend 1/3 of our PMR lives (as an average) sleeping. When we are sleeping our beings are out of the PMR input (in NPMR) and we still "are" and can change during that time (with more or less awareness that this happens).

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

To All,

Let me see if I can add some perspective to this thread. Tom has answered a specific and clear question (wisdom comes from experience) but not the actual original questions. Your true wisdom and the quality of your consciousness resides within Consciousness Space on the Reality Wide Web. This is the real 'you', your core being. Here in your PMR VR lifetime, you are a virtual subset of this real you, constrained to follow the rule set of the PMR VR. This includes developing from an infant and learning up to whatever level you are capable of. The wisdom, the quality of the consciousness, contained within your core being is the result of the experience accumulated from interaction with other IUOCs. This occurs primarily here in the PMR VR life experiences because that is how these PMRs are set up. The intensity level is much raised compared to the NPMRs. We have a clue to the how and why of this in the scientific research referenced on these forums regarding the use of digital neural networks in the creation of soccer playing robots where they had to be taught, versus programmed, and were superior to competing robots that were controlled by conventionally programmed computers instead. The 'true us' is probably in the form of a digital neural network and thus the quality of the consciousness within us is a matter of learning from experience rather than some kind of programming or teaching.

Regarding the information that Tom provided in My Big TOE, yes it is permitted as otherwise things would be happening to suppress the information or to block Tom in the process. Why not? Think about it and put this information into perspective. This is in a substantial measure the same information that mystics and The Buddha have been providing for centuries. That this world is Illusion and not all that there is is certainly not an entirely new concept. The Buddha sat under the Bodhi tree of legend for years doing much what Tom did: travel within Consciousness Space and tell us about the results of that travel in terms of his understanding. Tom as a scientist with the intervening centuries of developed scientific understanding and technology available to him applied that knowledge to his observations and created a much expanded model, an explanation, of his understanding of reality. Coming from the direction of religion and metaphysics, this information, the concept that reality exists on the basis of consciousness rather than strictly physicality, has been overwhelmed by the successes of science and technology. As a result, many imbalances have been introduced into PMR world society. As I have noted before, these concepts have started arising within the scientific community and the general society as so called New Age concepts. Tom's work can be observed as the cutting edge of this information within PMR society.

As Tom has provided this information, it should not in any way detract from the effects intended. It is simply a restatement in better and more understandable terms of the truths available for centuries. The intended results are still dependent upon the interactions with other IUOCs that you experience. You just have the opportunity to handle these better on the basis of greater intellectual understanding until you can convert them to actualized experience as improved quality of consciousness. You can play the game better but you cannot game the system. You can dig up all of the metaphorical treasures of wisdom of which you are capable. You can't thereby mine for treasure in PMR terms. Put something else into perspective. The development of wisdom, improved quality of consciousness, requires multiple PMR experience packets. You are not beginners now or you would not likely be seeking this kind of information. You have many lives behind you and more to come. But by virtue of what you learn and experience on this basis rather than just raw, unaided experience passing relatively blindly through the system, the path to 'graduation' will be significantly shortened. And do not be surprised if you, from your eventual higher perspective, choose to continue to reincarnate for the furtherance of the Consciousness System's purposes by furthering the development of others.

Ted

Ted: The 'true us' is probably in the form of a digital neural network and thus the quality of the consciousness within us is a matter of learning from experience rather than some kind of programming or teaching.

Tom: Wisdom must be derived from experience. However, for experience to be understood and interpreted such that it has the potential to lead to wisdom, requires knowledge. Knowledge from a big picture perspective facilitates the conversion of experience into wisdom.

Claudio: Hi Ted: Even though you are not contradicting Tom, I wouldn't leave knowledge on the side. Knowledge and wisdom are constantly embedded in our beings and/or accessible (knowledge) through the network.

Ted: You can play the game better but you cannot game the system.

Claudio: I don't know exactly what you meant there, but I don't know clearly what is it that we cannot do. If we keep evolving I don't know exactly what our limits are, specially knowing we are made of the same substance (Consciousness) and are part of the One (AUM).

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Okay Claudio, I won't forget that, until my next life experience packet where I will have to remember that all over again, in that fractally way I love so much.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Bette: You can have all the knowledge possible available, well we DO have all the knowledge available, and it has NOTHING to do with wisdom, using wisdom the same as quality of consciousness, in my opinion. It is what your IUOC does with the data during all aspects of this VR PMR life packet experience, awake, aware, not aware, asleep, dreaming, meditation, starving, helping, hurting EVERYTHING, how it organizes it into a gestalt, into more than the sum of its parts, that is what is "important", in Bette's TOE.


Clau you say three things you do not know, let's stick to what we think we know at least, okay? You can't cheat, cheaters never prosper, you are only cheating yourself, we are the world, oh wait not that. I think Ted means that you can't game the system, but if the rules are somewhat clear you can play "better" or a more profitable character, profitable to the entire system.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.