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Discussion and Explanation of the Writings of Tom Campbell: The Paradigm Changes Here
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:06 pm 
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What, wait.. monthly?!? AWESOME! :D

Are there any indications that a larger then usual number of low entropy IUoCs have chosen to incarnated into this particular PMR in the last 40 years or so?

Our universe is extremely vast, and extraterrestrial planets with intelligent life forms somewhat similar to humans is mathematically not that highly unlikely. Are IUoCs usually sticking to one planet within a certain PMR for several incarnations before moving on to somewhere else, and would it show up in their behavior if they recently incarnated onto a new planet?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:02 am 
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Sometimes I say or feel that I would do nasty things to other people because of what I deem to be injustice.
For example, I see a video of a farmer abusing his animals, hitting and kicking them etc. and I'm like "man, if I had the chance, I wouldn't mind putting a bullet through that guys face" Other times it's more benign things. For example, there's this guy up the road from where my father lives, whom very often have his car holding across the sidewalk, so people walking by have to step off the sidewalk and onto the road, and I'm thinking; It would be kinda awesome to just casually walk over the front of his car, as if it's not even there. Now would I actually do these things when it comes to it? Probably not. I have had the chance to walk over that car, many times, but I just couldn't get myself to do it. Thinking it would just cause all sorts of trouble for both him and me, it just doesn't feel right to do, and the point of my actions probably wouldn't get through to him in any case. Where does these thoughts come from? My ego? And how evil are they?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:04 am 
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Are IUoCs usually sticking to one planet within a certain PMR for several incarnations before moving on to somewhere else, and would it show up in their behavior if they recently incarnated onto a new planet?
It is understood that people usually stick to one PMR for most of their incarnations. Whether there are more than planet occupied, occupied by more than one dominant species at a roughly human level or whether there are even multiple stars and planets in a given PMR are moot. As a Virtual Reality, there is no waste of resources to having only one occupied planet within a PMR. This also greatly simplifies doing things like 'rebooting' or restarting from what you might call a 'restore point' to recover from some disastrous decision point as no consideration needs be given to the potential conscious occupants of another planet in that PMR who might be doing just fine and therefore not merit a disruption of a society that is doing well. As there are so many PMRs, there is no problem of 'having all your eggs in one basket'. Tom has never said anything about this kind of 'problem' but other writers have done so, referring to someone changing from a 'water world' or at least 'water species' to here on the land and having considerable problems of adaptation.
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Where does these thoughts come from? My ego? And how evil are they?
They do indeed come from your ego and fear and are pretty much equivalent in 'evil' to the actions which led you to think them. Let those thoughts go and do not act on them but try to realize that the person originating/causing the thoughts in you has the same kind of problem and deserves the same consideration as you do.

Ted


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:46 pm 
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This also greatly simplifies doing things like 'rebooting' or restarting from what you might call a 'restore point' to recover from some disastrous decision point as no consideration needs be given to the potential conscious occupants of another planet in that PMR who might be doing just fine and therefore not merit a disruption of a society that is doing well.
Save/load, I get it :P As long as we haven't made contact, we could be simulated separately and when/if the need comes, a merge of the two VRs could happen?

If a save/load occurred, would anyone notices anything at all? Or could some people be left with the feeling of things have happen once before already?

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They do indeed come from your ego and fear and are pretty much equivalent in 'evil' to the actions which led you to think them. Let those thoughts go and do not act on them but try to realize that the person originating/causing the thoughts in you has the same kind of problem and deserves the same consideration as you do.
Yes, they are equal in evil, which is why I'm kind of justifying them I think. Do I want to drop the guy dead, or walk across the car? No. But nor do I want beings being abused, or pedestrians having to walk on the road. You have this saying in the US; you gotta break a few eggs to make a omelet. I guess I'm the kinda guy that's willing to break a few eggs for the greater good.

Edit: I just read this thread by SteveMac which I think ties great into this discussion. Sainbury post sort of summarize the logic behind my justification for doing "evil deeds"

I'm trying to walk a very fine line of morality, so I'd appreciate any inputs on miss steps on my behalf.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:33 pm 
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There are national and international organizations that fight these fights and you could help out. I get email from probably hundreds of organizations fighting to protect everything from human children to farm animals (Certified Humane, ASPCA) to animals in the wild to the disabled to the elderly to women and their reproductive health, right to education and right to freedom from abuse including from their husbands. I started to list some of those organizations but there are simply too many to do so. There are attacks going on against the free will rights of pretty much all IUOCs avatars on the planet. You can sign petitions, make contributions, try to gain converts to the cause, participate in demonstrations and individually advocate as a volunteer in society. School systems have mentor programs for children to improve their academic performance and fitting into productive society. There are dog, cat and general animal rescue programs for which you could volunteer.

MBT and Tom do not advocate social isolation nor pacifism. Protect the free will rights at what ever level you can and of what ever entities that you can. There is vastly more need than volunteers or contributors. Volunteering would teach you much and do great things for your ego. Not to build it up but to show you some of the reasons why it is a bad thing to have. Fight to optimize the balance of free will by protecting your own rights, but not by physical attack unless in self protection, and protect the free will rights of those who cannot protect their own.

Regarding the car parked across the sidewalk. Ever thought about having a sheet of typing paper with a marker pen note on it explaining why it is discourteous to park across the sidewalk and just slip it under their windshield wiper or in the gasket at the window seal on the drivers window if the wipers are concealed? Then just walk away. If that doesn't help, repeat as necessary. Make up a page to print on your printer if many repeats are necessary. Be creative.

Ted


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:45 pm 
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There are national and international organizations that fight these fights and you could help out. I get email from probably hundreds of organizations fighting to protect everything from human children to farm animals (Certified Humane, ASPCA) to animals in the wild to the disabled to the elderly to women and their reproductive health, right to education and right to freedom from abuse including from their husbands. I started to list some of those organizations but there are simply too many to do so. There are attacks going on against the free will rights of pretty much all IUOCs avatars on the planet. You can sign petitions, make contributions, try to gain converts to the cause, participate in demonstrations and individually advocate as a volunteer in society. School systems have mentor programs for children to improve their academic performance and fitting into productive society. There are dog, cat and general animal rescue programs for which you could volunteer.

MBT and Tom do not advocate social isolation nor pacifism. Protect the free will rights at what ever level you can and of what ever entities that you can. There is vastly more need than volunteers or contributors. Volunteering would teach you much and do great things for your ego. Not to build it up but to show you some of the reasons why it is a bad thing to have. Fight to optimize the balance of free will by protecting your own rights, but not by physical attack unless in self protection, and protect the free will rights of those who cannot protect their own.
I live in a small country, in a small town, without nether car nor driver license, and I don't have much money, so I'm kind of limited in my options. There's something called the parents house in the city that I've just moved to, which I've considered volunteering for. (They are currently looking for volunteers) I'm young, and come from a sub-culture and drug induced environment myself, so I'm not really sure whether or not I should come as a patient (for lag of a better word) or as a helper. But I'll definitely have a talk with them within the near future.

I buy my eggs from free range chickens, and try to avoid eating meat. And I freely share these kind of concerns when it's right of me to do so within the social norms. I have an aunt that runs a rescue center for cats in one of the larger cities here in Denmark. I've considered asking to take in a cat or two from her. I'll have to make sure with the guy running the trailer park where I live that I can have these cats living with me though. (He got several himself, so it should be possible I guess)
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Regarding the car parked across the sidewalk. Ever thought about having a sheet of typing paper with a marker pen note on it explaining why it is discourteous to park across the sidewalk and just slip it under their windshield wiper or in the gasket at the window seal on the drivers window if the wipers are concealed? Then just walk away. If that doesn't help, repeat as necessary. Make up a page to print on your printer if many repeats are necessary. Be creative.
I had not thought about that, but I had thought about knocking on the door, letting him know how I feel. (in a kind and respectful manner of course) But I'm not fearless, especially when it comes to social interaction. I got this issue of fear of social judgement from others. in ether case, it's not really that big a deal, and I'm sure he's a nice guy beyond that. I just used him here as an example in this case to give some perspective.

But at then end of the day, when I value the circumstances, a dead old time farmer is better than daily animal abuse, and a bump in a car is better than a pedestrian with a broken leg. And if I had to be the one getting the hands dirty, then so be it. Is this ego, or is it love, and where does the moral line go? There's is hatred involved in these scenario, but the hate seems to come from love. Which is why I'm rather confused about the whole thing.

I see injustice, and I get mad. Is that good, or is it bad?

I know the answer to that question myself. I shouldn't get mad, but be concerned. But that anger could be useful, and it really is something that comes uncontrollably. How does one work with such an issue? Just put the anger aside, and it will stop showing it's ugly face some day?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:11 pm 
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Basically it's what Tom describes as the PMR process. Interact and pay attention to the feedback. Serious change takes serious time. Remember that the absolute change within one lifetime is small. But there can be a sense of more rapid change if you put in the effort to catch up to the QOC that you came in with before being filled with new beliefs, fears and ego as a child and younger person coming from family, friends and associates and society in general. Just keep at it, working as diligently and moving as carefully as possible, avoiding making things worse through violence while trying to make things better. People do mange to do it all the kind, even when clueless about the big picture.

Ted


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:50 pm 
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When most people post a question, I believe that they are expecting an answer from Tom...albeit it is obvious that Tom is a very very busy person. Ted, Donna and others have done an admirable job of either fielding questions or supporting this process...yet from my selfish perspective they are still not the real McCoy...as in Tom. It seems to me that there is a very large gap of first hand knowledge and experience of the bigger reality system between Tom and the next evolved expert on the theory of everything...a real real big gap.

We cannot expect people like Tom, Donna and Ted and other experienced people with a wealth of Big T.O.E. knowledge to be with us indefinitely. I recall asking Tom a question at one of his workshop's when someone in the audience jumped in without invitation and decided that they would interpret or more correctly misinterpret my question on my behalf....which I found to be rather annoying at the time. I can understand that they were likely just trying to help out in their own way but I see this type of scenario being replayed time and time again in other situations.

So with consideration to my previous statements, my question to Tom, should he ever receive it unedited, is "So for low level IUCs, like myself for example, that want to receive information from the very very best available sources, like you for example, what are we to do when you are not around or we have third parties to deal with? You have very big shoes to fill and I don't currently see anyone close to being able to fill them."


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:22 am 
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Although Tom is special it is his information that is valuable more than the man. Many of the questions ask on this thread have already been adequately answered. It is just that no one wants to dig up the information or wants to hear it from someone other than Tom. Tom is always willing to answer any question, but it would be a better use of his time for him to answer questions that have truly never been addressed. Tom has faith in the forum moderators to answer most questions. It is generally information from NPMR that the moderators may not be able to provide.
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So with consideration to my previous statements, my question to Tom, should he ever receive it unedited, is "So for low level IUCs, like myself for example, that want to receive information from the very very best available sources, like you for example, what are we to do when you are not around or we have third parties to deal with? You have very big shoes to fill and I don't currently see anyone close to being able to fill them."

It is your ego asking this question. There is already more information about MBT here on the forum and in the YouTube videos than you will ever be able to process. The point isn't information. The point is using information to make better choices.

What will we all do without Tom?
1) make each tiny, great and mundane choice reflect doing the right thing for the right reason.

2) Search for beliefs, fears, and expectations, as well as attitudes and feelings that reflect ego, and eliminate them at the being level.

3) Live fully engaged in the moment, in the present, and approach existence with love, compassion, and open minded skepticism. Learn everything you can learn about everything, engage others in relationship, travel, and experience (this will broaden and deepen your experience base and thus enrich and support accurate interpretation in all the realities you experience.) Focus on those four and everything else (including your facility and exploration of NPMR) will fall out naturally around your interests and intents.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6319&p=45178#p45178


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:32 am 
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Sometimes I say or feel that I would do nasty things to other people because of what I deem to be injustice.
For example, I see a video of a farmer abusing his animals, hitting and kicking them etc. and I'm like "man, if I had the chance, I wouldn't mind putting a bullet through that guys face" Other times it's more benign things. For example, there's this guy up the road from where my father lives, whom very often have his car holding across the sidewalk, so people walking by have to step off the sidewalk and onto the road, and I'm thinking; It would be kinda awesome to just casually walk over the front of his car, as if it's not even there. Now would I actually do these things when it comes to it? Probably not. I have had the chance to walk over that car, many times, but I just couldn't get myself to do it. Thinking it would just cause all sorts of trouble for both him and me, it just doesn't feel right to do, and the point of my actions probably wouldn't get through to him in any case. Where does these thoughts come from? My ego? And how evil are they?
This is about what you believe is right, and that comes from your ego. Is it all about how you feel and how you would like to satisfy those feelings.

The farmer that is abusing his animals - why are you watching a video of animals suffering when in all likelihood you cannot do anything to help them? If you are truly concerned with animal welfare then volunteer at an animal shelter, get a law changed or enacted to help animals, call in any abuse you see to the proper authorities. The first is about "self" the second is about "other."

The guy who parks his car inconveniently... why do you even care? Because it is inconvenient to you? Walk a few steps in the road. Maybe the guy has a reason, maybe the guy is a jerk - why do you care? Think about your own reasons for your own behavior and choices. Let everyone else take care of themselves.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:52 pm 
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This is about what you believe is right, and that comes from your ego. Is it all about how you feel and how you would like to satisfy those feelings.

The farmer that is abusing his animals - why are you watching a video of animals suffering when in all likelihood you cannot do anything to help them? If you are truly concerned with animal welfare then volunteer at an animal shelter, get a law changed or enacted to help animals, call in any abuse you see to the proper authorities. The first is about "self" the second is about "other."

The guy who parks his car inconveniently... why do you even care? Because it is inconvenient to you? Walk a few steps in the road. Maybe the guy has a reason, maybe the guy is a jerk - why do you care? Think about your own reasons for your own behavior and choices. Let everyone else take care of themselves.
Yes, I believe it to be wrong, because it feels wrong in an empathic sense. Not just being abused, but also doing the abuse. All of it just felt so very wrong. The farmer abusing his animals was part of a video about vegan-ism. I was watching it because I was going vegan, and wanted information. I was trying to do exactly what you suggest that I should do. To pro-actively do something about those kind of activities. I'm not the guy whom laughs at "face of death" videos, I'm the friend sitting next to that guy, watching in horror. So please, don't suggest that I see suffering as mere entertainment. I know evil, intimately, and I'm trying very hard not to let it venture into my mind.

About the car guy; I care because it is disruptive behavior. How much do I care? Not enough to do anything about it. Yes, it was inconvenient for me, so it would probably also be inconvenient for any other person passing by, for example an old lady with trouble walking. I believe this is called empathy? This wasn't just a one time occurrence ether. That was the way he usually parked his car. I have only once explained about this guy, parking his car across the side walk, and that is right here in this thread, and that was with the intention of improving my own QoC. Certainly not because I care about some dude parking his car an inconvenient way, it is simply just not worth my time writing about. Using the episode as an example with the intention to improve my QoC is though.

I am thinking about my own reasons for my own behavior, that is the whole point of me sitting here typing. I have pondered my own thoughts, I found them somewhat disturbing, so I shared them with the hopes of getting feedback from beings with as good or even better understanding of the TOE as myself. It was with the intention of improving my own QoC, and dare I add, not getting condescending scolding. When I read your post between the lines, it seems to me that you're calling me an outright liar and a psychopath. I love Ted, I love Richard, I love Targobaath, I love Kurt, I love kroeran, I love you, and anyone else here. I love you all enough that I dare ripping my chest open and showing you my heat, what I'm made of, and my inner most thoughts. So it really hurts when I read that this is the kind of guy you think I am. A liar and a psychopath. I am not that guy, I know that guy, and I am not him.

Edit: On second thought, I'm probably overreacting, and maybe misinterpreting you post. I don't know, but there you have it.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:07 pm 
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Thinking about our own fears and beliefs is very hard and can be emotional. You cannot change anyone else. You can only work on yourself. Evil never seeps into anyone's consciousness. We are all responsible for our choices and Intent.

Is it ego or empathy for being irritated at someone else's thoughtlessness? Is inconveniently parking a car disruptive behavior? Are you irritated because someone is doing something that you judge is not right? You cannot control your environment. You cannot control other people. Most of the people we come in contact have average to below average QOC. You will lead a very frustrated life if you get upset by their choices. Their choices reflect who they are.

It is enough if you can make more thoughtful, loving choices. Be OK that you are playing with a lot of other kindergartners in a reality with a lot of randomness.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:08 pm 
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Thinking about our own fears and beliefs is very hard and can be emotional. You cannot change anyone else. You can only work on yourself. Evil never seeps into anyone's consciousness. We are all responsible for our choices and Intent.

Is it ego or empathy for being irritated at someone else's thoughtlessness? Is inconveniently parking a car disruptive behavior? Are you irritated because someone is doing something that you judge is not right? You cannot control your environment. You cannot control other people. Most of the people we come in contact have average to below average QOC. You will lead a very frustrated life if you get upset by their choices. Their choices reflect who they are.

It is enough if you can make more thoughtful, loving choices. Be OK that you are playing with a lot of other kindergartners in a reality with a lot of randomness.
It's probably a mix of both, in this case, mostly ego. Depends on the situation I guess. I do get upset by peoples choices sometimes, I also try to just led that slide, but it's not always that easy. I'm on the right track, I'm sure of it, I just need to keep at it.

Anyway, if somebody could rephrase the issue I've put forth into a one liner for Tom, that would be awesome. He has gone over it before I'm sure, but I suspect it's an issue many people are having.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:34 am 
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Thank you so much for including my question in the previous Fireside Chat, but I am afraid I did not do a very good job asking my question, so I thought I would try to articulate it a bit better :-)
.....The question I asked concerned Tom and his animals. In asking the question, what I was curious about is how animals select a virtual reality experience? How does a dog (or cat, or horse, etc....) determine the type of experience that will garner growth? Does a dog for example, have the ability to select a particular experience -- could s/he plan to come back and be with a former owner or particular human given attachment to that person? I think about dogs in loving homes verses those experiencing miserable living conditions -- are these situations freely chosen? Or is it simply more random in that any experience pretty much provides the same growth opportunities? And then once, let's say the dog evolves, and his/her decision space can expand, what happens then e.g., what happens next?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:05 am 
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I think this post from Tom may answer your questions.

Often I have been asked whether or not animals have souls and if so, do they exist as individual souls like ours or only as a group or species soul. Such an inquiry came to me again recently; because the question of animal spirituality represents such a common interest, I thought I would post my reply here.

By definition, all sentient beings are conscious, thus all sentient beings have a non-physical part called consciousness. If one calls the non-physical part a being a soul, then all sentient beings have souls. In MBT terms, all souls reside in NPMR/TBC/AUM, i.e., the larger consciousness system of which we are all a part. If you poke a clam, it will pull in its foot demonstrating its sentience (albeit at an incredibly low level), consequently, even a clam has a soul residing in TBC just as you do. The souls of conscious critters have always resided in TBC ever since there were conscious critters.

Now, though all souls are chips off the same consciousness block, they are not all the same in their awareness, capacity, functionality, or entropy (quality). There are no 'guides' guiding the day to day spiritual development of vaguely aware clams. Though individual clams have an individual non-physical part, there is so little decision-space involved that clam souls are all pretty much the same; so they can be treated, or interacted with, or ignored as a group. Because there is so little differentiation between one little clam soul and the next, individual treatment/attention/tracking would not be a good use of AUM's resources. Same for bugs and slugs and most of PMR's trillions of sentient entities. Perhaps a brilliant (relatively speaking) clam might every now and then get a little special attention, but surely that is the exception and not the rule.

Dogs and chimps and dozens or other species are different, there is enough individualization there to allow the 3 sigma winners (unusually highly developed members of their species) to individually advance themselves in consciousness evolution (increase their quality, grow spiritually) while the majority of each of these species may be dealt with as a group. Perhaps a very evolved dog consciousness will one day earn the right to incarnate as a chimp or a dolphin or a human. In this way consciousness evolution flows upward, individuals work their way up -- from the lowest (and slowest to grow) to the highest and speediest evolvers. All have been in TBC from their beginning and all have opportunity to improve themselves at least infinitesimally. Economics allows some of the slower changers to be dealt with in groups, group soul if you like to express it that way. Not all humans have individual guides, sometimes groups of humans (slow growers) share a single guide or have part time guides. Other individual humans have several full time guides. Here a 'guide' can be seen as rough measure of the degree of interaction with the larger consciousness system.

So the bottom line answer to this questions is that it depends on the size of the decision space of the individual (quality/potential) and of the species (capacity). Humans are not the only species that has individual members actively climbing the ladder of consciousness evolution. It is also not the only species that has members making little to no progress. Many species participate in consciousness evolution in their own fashion and at their own rate. All souls are individual but dealing with groups of individuals as if they were one -- Group mind and group soul -- is a practical matter of investing resources where they have the highest rate of return. There are sometimes exceptional individuals who stand out from their group (species) and deserve (and thus get) individual treatment. The higher up the ladder of consciousness evolution you go, the greater the number of standouts.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=882

AND:

Animals are not random actors; they know what they are doing. They solve problems, do analysis, come to conclusions, take appropriate action based on those conclusions, use tools, communicate, and build things -- just like people-animals. The decision space they operate in (within which they exercise their free will choices) may be small but all that means is that their consciousness is simply limited by different constraints than ours. Not inferior, not superior, just a different application/configuration of the same fundamental consciousness individually defined by its own unique constraints and opportunities for personal growth (such constraints also limit growth potential). Consciousness is consciousness — AI Guy will fall under that same description. All sentient entities are conscious — each has its own decision space that it must operate within. By definition, all such PMR critters, including people, furry critters, and AI Guy have a nonphysical part (because consciousness is nonphysical). If one wants to call that nonphysical part a soul, then AI Guy, your dog, and even that worm you put on your hook has a soul. Of course all souls, or nonphysical parts, are not equivalent — their extent, capacity for growth, potential, and entropy are a function of each entities configuration in consciousness space (decision space, limitations, growth potential etc.)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=125&p=251&hilit=random+actors#p251


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