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Discussion and Explanation of the Writings of Tom Campbell: The Paradigm Changes Here
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:17 pm 
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Hello everybody,

in the regular Fireside Chats we only have adults as members since no teenagers ever asked us to be a part of it. I recently became aware that there is at least one kid/teenager interested in Tom's theory.

Since there will be no regular Fireside Chat this December I talked to Tom about using the slot for an experiment to have kids / teenagers ask Tom questions about his theory and just see how this works out. Tom liked the idea but he thinks we will need more than just one person to join so it becomes a more relaxed interaction and nobody feels put on the spot. The format would be that of the regular Fireside Chats but probably more interactive and tailored towards a younger audience.

Having a couple of teenagers would be great but they should already be familiar with the basic concepts of Tom's theory.

If you are a teenager or you are a parent of an interested teenager, please contact me at mbt@matrixwissen.de so we can work out the details.

The event is scheduled for Sunday, December 18

Starting Time: 20:00 UTC / 21:00 CET (Germany) / 12am PST / 2pm CST / 3pm EST / 7am (Dec 19th) AEDT

(this is 1 hour later than we normally start the Fireside Chats to make it more suitable for a participant from Sydney)


FYI: Today we had the last Fireside Chat of this year and we have managed to go through most questions posted on the corresponding forum thread. The next regular session will be on January 8 2017


Best regards
Oliver


Last edited by matrixwissen on Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:16 pm 
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Devil's advocate here- is MBT really something that the still developing mind of a teenager can grasp, or should be seen attempting to grasp?

Yes, the concepts can be watered down- but hardly enough to convey the undoubtedly more important messages of "respect your elders, do good in school, make good choices, don't be a sex fiend". Moreover I'd worry about charges of "indoctrination of the young" as a further means to condemn or otherwise write off Tom's ideas.

Maybe there has already been younger crowds present at MBT events who handled it well, but that is still not to say a teen-targeted presentation is the best move. Thoughts?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:00 am 
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I would have had no problems with the concepts of MBT as a teenager. I was a teenager when the Scientific American articles on Cellular Automata came out and I learned how they function then and carried it on through to now. If you can understand the idea of CA, and add to it a little biology and neurology, you have the core of what you need to understand the concept of the LCS as a CA and PMR as a VR which really gives you the basis you need for understanding everything in Tom Campbell's model of reality.

Now perhaps not the typical Artisan or Guardian personality types as they have other proclivities and concerns provided by their IUOC. But Rationals and Idealists have the iNtuitive aspect to their personalities that would prepare them for this understanding. There is something to be said for dealing with a Tabula Rasa that has not been already set into the ways established by family and society in terms of being able to deal with ideas that are not based on how do I grab my share of the pie and take and keep it away successfully from everyone else and 'my dog's bigger than your dog' of ego.

Ted


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:14 am 
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I don't see a problem with teenagers being able to grasp MBT as is. MBT was designed to be understood my the western mindset; most older teenagers have that. Exposure to this material at that age might help with cognitive dissonance caused by the current system of indoctrination, thus leading to an environment more conducive to growth. The messages you mentioned are more important than the simulation aspect of MBT, but not the evolution part, they are pieces of it. If teenagers are given a bigger picture understanding of why they should do those things, rather than simply telling them "because I said so", etc., they might be more receptive to them. I don't know the age of the members here, but I learned about MBT and the larger reality at 46, after having raised 2 children. I wish I had found it sooner.

I do however wonder how they will treat the simulation aspect. Will they take PMR seriously enough if they know it is a simulation? Isn't the "not knowing" one of the benefits of PMR? This concern has been mentioned before as it applies to the general public.

Looking far ahead, a new environment might help in raising QOC more quickly, but it might also reduce the number of ways in which to lower entropy as some of the more difficult challenges might no longer exist.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:06 am 
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Last edited by ch79 on Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:39 am 
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I would definitely reask Tom the question.

He had NPMR experiences as a child, and holds up the notion that before age 6 people have frequent "OOBEs"

BUT

He also talks openly about his final experience in this stage of development when he was shut off from continuing in the NPMR to prevent his skewing of sense of reality in PMR. That has to be taken into serious consideration.

Personally, on data provided I would rule out children altogether from engaging in MBT until mid to late teenage years.

As we all know, Tom is a bit of a special-case where he is more adept at undertaking the understanding and formulating MBT than most regular Joes. I think all of us would put a lot of bets on Tom being able to deal with continued NPMR experiences as a child, but data does not support this notion, so I'd err on the side of restraint as far as youth involvement.

There is also the concern of indoctrination which ties to this, and we need none of that.

If anything Tom's descendants should stand as an example of growing up with exposition to MBT, and so far I have not seen them coming forward. I've seen one lengthy article of Tom's son - but that is barely standing any standard of proof that would be conclusive of introducing MBT to children.

In an indirect way - this may be a good idea - gather your progeny's questions that you don't know how to answer, and ask Tom on how to. Otherwise I strongly advise against engaging anyone still having a guardian to interact with MBT unless it is entirely under their free will and choice.

I'd like to remind everybody that as humanity, we still have to get up a few levels before we even know how to raise children properly within out current understanding of limitations - that is to instill negotiation over force/coercion and get the non-aggression-principle to be status quo in interpersonal communication.

MBT is for us dummies to finally understand some basis on how to progress, and raise - once we get that at the being level, we can ponder on what to instill in the next generation or just do it.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:54 am 
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I tried to look up imaginary friends to see how common they are but did not find it in the short time spent. Here is what Wikipedia had to say about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_friend I suspect that the imaginary aspect is just the psychiatrists concept and they may well not be any more imaginary than Tom's were.

I don't see that explaining MBT is any more confusing or damaging to children than church or Bible school and telling them about an Authoritarian God, hellfire and damnation or sitting there singing simple minded songs. One of the 'things' of Fundamentalists is that it is their absolute right to screw up their children the way they want to so why not the same right for the more rational among us?

Ted


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:50 am 
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that's a good idea to hear the side of teens personal outlook of tom's theory.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:02 am 
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You are operating and making decisions under a model of reality whether you are conscious of it or not.

If MBT was the pervasive narrative of the culture than we would be indoctrinated since birth and we wouldn't think twice about this being a VR or that obviously love is the most optimized way to interact in a digital consciousness system.

You can never be taught soon enough that love is the answer. Kids have questions too.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:32 pm 
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I suspect that the imaginary aspect is just the psychiatrists concept and they may well not be any more imaginary than Tom's were.
I agree that the term imaginary was likely used by those that haven't experienced it and don't understand.

I still haven't outgrown my imaginary friend. I know a 25 year old who hasn't either. Both of us have frequent "conversations" with it. Our friends are not physical, we cannot see or feel them. Sometimes the conversation is verbal (talking to yourself), and sometimes mental (telepathy). I never knew or even questioned what it was, I just accepted it since it was real to me and very useful. They provide answers/statements/understanding that we could not have possibly known. I now know that it is our connection to the LCS. My friend refers to his as "self developed AI". He already had a gut feeling that reality isn't real, he knew there was another layer. After discussing some basic MBT concepts with him, he says it explains his experience too.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:24 pm 
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I tried to look up imaginary friends to see how common they are but did not find it in the short time spent. Here is what Wikipedia had to say about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_friend I suspect that the imaginary aspect is just the psychiatrists concept and they may well not be any more imaginary than Tom's were.

I don't see that explaining MBT is any more confusing or damaging to children than church or Bible school and telling them about an Authoritarian God, hellfire and damnation or sitting there singing simple minded songs. One of the 'things' of Fundamentalists is that it is their absolute right to screw up their children the way they want to so why not the same right for the more rational among us?

Ted
I agree, it couldn't be worse - but it could be comparable, see instead of a kid talking about God and hell, he'd be walking around and saying that nothing's real or that we live in a game - catch my drift? ; ) Depends on the parents how well they explain it. I'm over exaggerating of course, but I think that there's a reason as to why Tom was cut off from the experiences at a certain point in development.

As to imaginary friends - that is a fascinating subject! I had one as a kid, and I think I did only because I heard the concept of an imaginary friend somewhere, so I made one up. Never saw it, heard it, talked to it, but I did try to imagine it and talked about it. All along I knew that I was making it up, but it was sort of fun but also disappointing. I called it "sir ray" it was literally supposed to be a tiny ray of light that would be infinitely small, but bright, or a really tiny little man that would have a house wherever, in a corner of my room, or outside in the neighborhood. Funny...


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:53 pm 
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If you remember a description Tom gave of his guides consulting together and sort of going off to consult, presumably at a higher level of management, my interpretation would be that they had done their job and were inhibited from further interaction so that they did not interfere with the plans for Tom's life later.

After a certain level of communication with individual guides and creating an LCS connection, my individual guidance communication ceased and it is more like just having information available when I need it. Tom, if he needs information or assistance just talks direct to whoever he needs in the LCS and gets what he needs.

Ted


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:53 pm 
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If a teen dont wanna participate or ask questions THEN THEY WONT


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:04 pm 
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but to be quite frank , I would boldly guarantee you 95%+ of teenagers on planet earth
"Couldnt give a fuck" (In there own words) about Fear ,Ego or Love etc.
(ahem) exuse my french


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:38 pm 
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I would boldly guarantee you 95%+ of teenagers on planet earth
"Couldnt give a fuck" (In there own words) about Fear ,Ego or Love etc.
That is in large part due to their external environment. Exposure to MBT could help reverse that mindset before it becomes more permanent with age.

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