Bette, Sorry to seem dense. In my effort to bring out some metaphysical thoughts from others on this forum, I seem to have oversteped. I did however get one response of what appears to me to be somewhat metaphysical. I was looking to learn more from the members of this forum about specific "psi phenomena" that they may have encountered. Should I say paranormal or metaphysical?

I really didn't miss the "E" in MBT.
Jake

Don't worry about being dense (if you were, it could be I am touchy and protective), it's my middle name most of the time. We are mostly "up to speed", but once you have a level of understanding of MBT nothing is "paranormal" because it is all normal, see? That's one of the things this TOE did, make EVERYTHING understandable, and normal. Perhaps call it "cool $hit", just kidding. ;)
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Bette, If only everyone had this same understanding, however the vast majority haven't a clue. If you can't see it, feel it, touch it, hear it or taste it, it doesn't exist.
Jake

You have found the exception here.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Well, you are really preaching to the converted in these here parts brother. ; - )

One perhaps cultural or communication issue for your consideration is that MBTOE is conceived to be an approach to such topics from the POV of the left hemisphere....at least, this is "new art" or novelty of the project.

A "fundamental" is that we are here attempting to leap the divide of the corpus callosum and consider these issues as non-mystical or non-metaphysical "realities", fully subject to the discipline of empirical evidence.

You are speaking the poetic language of the right hemisphere. My recollection is that Tom's view is that this ground is respected but well-serviced by persons such as yourself and your wife.

The new paradigm which began with Bob Monroe's experiences and now continues in the two friendly branches of "Monroeism" (TMI and MBTOE) is that humans have grown up enough to consider all this dressed in lab coats rather than tie-died T-shirts or Louloulemon hot yoga togs, examples of "tells" of the right hemisphere.

This is the realm of jackets and Brooks Brother ties and cable company millionaire entrepreneurs (Monroe), military remote viewers (McMoneagle), Atomic weapons physicists (Campbell) and large-structure engineers (Ted).

The strategic mission statement is to penetrate the unopen skepticism of the secular scientific priesthood, some day achieve acceptance of Big Truth in a peer-reviewed mainstream scientific journal, and then employ "the enemy's" resources against itself so that small truth PMR-centricity is relegated to the same closet as the flat earth society.

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Randy,

I am not actually from the 'large structure engineer' world or the left brain side but rather through the right brain side. I work 'both sides of the street' and Tom is not actually from either, in my opinion, but writing to not upset those who think only the 'left brained' way. Tom has said that he considers me to be balanced R/L and I so consider him. We are really talking the same reality, just different perceptions of, ways of perceiving it. That is where the deepest understanding comes from, again in my opinion.

No complaints, just clarification.

Ted

oops!...some misfiled info or over-interpolation of datapoints

as far as R/L...for sure...I think its sort of like the "what's water" joke from that other thread reference (what's his name's commencement speech)....R, like water, is pervasive in this consciousness racket....and L is what defines MBTOE, or more specifically R+L

before MBTOE, a person of equal R/L development would have to more or less "leave their (left) brain at the door" regarding exploring consciousness...this is no longer the case. Division Theory started to wade into these waters philosophically and TMI opened things up experientially, but without a theoretical framework.

I am particularly sensitized to the R/L thing as my personal obsession for a few decades now is R/L + D (D=Rcomplex)

The family joke is how long it will take me to bring up my Theory of the Four Rings.

1- Primally driven persons dominated by their R-complex (ie. street and biker gangs)
2- Practically (&power) driven persons dominated by their left hemisphere (ie. accountants and fundamentalists)
3- Poetically (mystically) driven persons dominated by their right hemisphere (creative professions and spirituality)
4- Balanced persons who draw on each of these three "voices" (old money, mediterranean culture and American prep)

The hypothesis is that pretty much all individuals (and sub-cultures) fall into one of these four groupings. The implied therapy is that individuals are "happier" if they invest in being mature in all three aspects.

Did I read correctly that Tom is now focusing on the primal aspect and is writing something on this?

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Randy,

I was saying nothing about anything that Tom might be working on as to subject or basis as I do not know. He has already listed some general plans for more books. I do know that one of the bases upon which MBT was written was to not be threatening to the Left Brain oriented and scientists in general. As the 'high priests' of our present culture, they need to be enlisted in as opposed to being alienated from the general movement towards a new paradigm. It is my feeling that what we can see is that many individual scientists are in fact doing research that leads their thinking in the direction towards the new (old, rejuvenated) paradigm of reality being based upon Mind/Consciousness. Other than this, I am not clear perhaps as to what you are asking at the last.

Ted

sorry for taking shortcuts...I should have provided the link to the primal reference

I traced back to this from a comment someone had made on it

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2482&p=2887&hilit=primal+man#p2887

looks like it may be more about the male female thing than the more general topic of the sensor platform primitive rulesets

Regarding the D (of R/L/D), "my" hypothesis (I assume I am not the first person to suggest this) is that part of reducing entropy is to explore the hard-wired genetic code that programs our impulsive life and adopt what could be called "Anthropological Correctness"...which is a bit counterintuitive in that its a good thing in this context.

It basically boils down to a study of the lifestyle of primitive tribes as a benchmark for the conditions that our genetic code "expects" or anticipates upon birth...and taking a measure of the extent to which our lifestyle choices deviate from this benchmark...which is a measure of our primal stress coefficient.

Some speculative results and therapies from this are:

- Adoption of a paleolithic (organic high nutrient) diet
- When possible, stand if you are sitting, walk if you are standing, run if you are walking (the body is optimized for movement), and burning calories permitting higher high nutrient intake
- Have children as young as possible (for the female) and have grandparents take a significant or even primary role in their supervision (the younger the mother's DNA, the healthier the child) [a ruleset that the British aristocracy had/have adopted ie. Diana not going to University was typical]
- Women and men should look to their own sex for each other's social company for most waking hours rather than spending most or all of their time with their spouse (latter puts inorganic stress on marriage) [this diminishes when both partners are hemispherically balanced]
- There is a base "need" or appetite to work for about 4 hours a day (whether you need to or not financially)
- There is a base need/appetite for low-intensity non-work sitting around with your own mind, which modern life thwarts (Italians call this "the sweetness of doing nothing - la dolce far niente") [which meditation attempts to compensate for]
- We have a baked in hunger to be surrounded by life in the form of village arrangements, livestock and plants. Tropical and semi-tropical is even better.
- A fire burning on in a fireplace is cheap therapy.
- Camping.

Of course, all this has to be balanced with practical and higher ruleset considerations...its just one perspective to consider. Not saying I actually do all of this myself.

If one is living alone in an apartment building with no social network and no garden to tend or animals to care for, and trudge to work to spend the day in a windowless artificially lit cubical seeking to avoid social interaction (Joe vs the Volcano), and you spend all your spare time occupying your mind with video games, forums and mass media...well, no wonder we are depressed. (this is just a general compulsive rant...not directed at you Ted!)

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Memo to paradigm: there is an old adage, uttered, for the most part, in youth as a retort to a perceived insult: it takes one to know one. If you call me delusional, then that implies you actually know what it means to be delusional. It's the old "pot calling the kettle black" thing. How could you not be delusional yourself?

Let me offer my own TOE. Succinct. Unassailable. Unequivocal. And maddeningly, disappointingly, rigorously "true".

Nothing IS
Everything IS NOT

To wax prosaic: Everything is the elaboration of nothing. Not one jot of difference between the two states. There is not a goddamned thing human beings can do about it. Tom Campbell asserts that the goal of existence is to achieve the lowest entropy state possible. That goal is inherently achieved, since there is absolutely nothing, which is the lowest entropy state possible. Everything already equals nothing. That will never change. Because there is nothing TO [sic] change.

IS=IS NOT
IS NOT=IS

'Tain't no theory.

Oh, I thought you said it IS no theory. Welcome to Tom's MBT discussion site either way.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Kornellred,

Interesting TOE you have. You say it is unassailable. So let me try to "assail" it. :)

Your premise is that "everything" is just an elaboration of "nothing", and we are already at the lowest entropy level, then why do there appear to be "local" differences in entropy at least at the human level. Individuals, families and systems (ie governments, communities, organizations) operate at different levels of entropy in our world. We appear to be able to lower(or raise) entropy at least at a very local level (especially the individual level).

It seems likely to me that a virtual system that ran on "autopilot" with no input from units of consciousness having free will probably would operate the way you say, with all being only virtual, running according to a "rule-set". I think conscious intent, which actually exists outside "the elaboration of nothing" changes the state within it.

Welcome to the forum.

Jeanne

Kornellred,

I guess then you have NOTHING to say :)

Welcome to the board and hope you can bring more than nothing.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Red,

Actually you have something there more than whatever you possibly aimed for in that everything did arise from nothing. The Void is the primal state of nothing/random meaninglessness that is described by mystics of all ages (i.e. it can still be perceived today as well as preliterate times). Tom described this as the origin of everything. The Taoists and the Buddha himself has described this nothingness as the source of everything. Mystics of all 'stripes' have described the same source for our reality. Ultimately there is no meaning except those of relationship which we create. That is why it is so important to keep our nihilism and our antagonisms under control and use care in attempting to communicate.

Ted

This is probably not the proper section of the forum to discuss this, being the negative-rant section and all. I chimed in here to possibly incur the wrath of the original poster (paradigm). It seems paradigm considers anything that is not immediately demonstrable to be nonsense. I don't. I consider EVERYTHING, including my opinions, to be nonsense. But that does not in any way invalidate personal experiences.

Reality is summarized instantaneously as the totality of what is happening, exactly as it is. It is easy to assume that individual units of conscious awareness exist, because they do. If you (any of us) practice any form of introspection, it will be obvious that you simply appeared. There was really, really no kidding around a point at which awareness commenced. The inevitable outcome of introspection is that prior to your individual appearance, you were not. That state of "not-ness" (so to speak) is the primordial condition which pertains. It is not imaginary - it is what allows imagination (Reality/Everything/Nothing) to be. Because that primordial condition has no attributes whatsoever, it cannot be modified or affected by anything which exists.

Everything that exists did not exist at some point. Everything that exists will cease to exist. Before there was the universe, the primordial, indescribable Condition pertains. After the universe ceases to exist, the primordial, indescribable Condition pertains. This Condition cannot be affected by existence, which is inherently transient. Existence is inherently transient because of the primordial, indescribable Condition. Existence, therefore, can only be intrinsic to the primordial, indescribable Condition.

While there is existence, everything will happen, or not. Humans may destroy the planet before consciousness conjures up a method to sustain awareness of itself. Consciousness may transcend biological embodiment and sustain awareness in a more durable vehicle. No matter what happens or does not happen, existence cannot affect the primordial, indescribable Condition, because existence is that very Condition. That Condition cannot exceed itself, because it has no size (or lack of size for that matter), shape, duration or lack of duration, wants, needs, desires, wishes, impulses, intentions.

Once again - that Condition is precisely why existence is transient. Individual consciousness does not seem to think so. The low entropy state that Tom Campbell describes is most certainly possible. Maybe even probable. Inevitable, even. And even if it can last forever, it can never exceed or supersede the primordial, indescribable Condition that pertains, because existence IS EQUIVALENT to that Condition.

As for little old me - my life has been difficult. I do not want to survive my physical death. Of course, what I want or do not want is totally irrelevant. Paradigm is not worse off for thinking that the forum participants here are delusional. Nor are the forum participants better off for ignoring the naysayers. I wish everyone well and leave it at that.

Willie R.
"kornellred"