This PMR we seem to be in up close and personal seems to be all there is sometimes. You can think its just a mirage all you want to, But that experience we are processing is what it is all about. Its real!, That is why we seem to be here to find better ways of experiencing life. I tell myself all the time just relax and be myself, it seems we should find a way that best suits us. Its that inner processing (Stuff) mechanism that I think we really are. Call it what ever you want, That is the only thing that is real. PMR and other data is what activates it to become more. Try and relax and enjoy the ride its just an experience that seems to never end. Fred searching for truth

speaking from the point of view of someone without PSI experience...I am sure this all looks different for others

Because Tom appears to approach all this initially from a physics point of view, there can be moments of apparent existential discomfort, wading through all this

there is a risk of jumping to the wrong conclusion and drifting into "its just data" nihilist thinking

Just because the mechanism of experiencing PMR is virtual, does not mean it is meaningless, or that it seems less real.

Clearly, someone or something of unimaginable capacities has gone to a great deal of trouble to give you this life experience. It could be no other way.

Watch Joe vs the Volcano for homework ; - ) ...which was written by a dude following an NDE experience

There is the mechanics of how the car works, and then there is driving the car and where you going, and the connection between the two is not obvious.

How you drive the car relates primarily to ego and fear, giving up the entropic game of ego, living a more authentic life, rather than a fantasy life

Where you are driving is this "becoming love" stuff, and you steer there through forming better intent at each decision fork of the road, of significance

Opening up the connection to your IUOC and interacting with other IUOCs through their FWAUs is very very real

There are the props on the stage, and the actors on the stage...props only have value to the extent that they provide an authentic purpose - some actors are overly concerned about the arrangement of their props and how many props they have, independent of function or efficiency, and to the extent that this MO underweights the importance of the actors on the stage, this violates the agenda of your IUOC, leading to pain (negative feedback)

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materialism should not be confused with the genuine aesthetic compulsion of the IUOC, which requires interaction with the props, that is an independent force from trying to keep up with the Jones's, and that is disrespectful of the cost or provenance of aesthetic objects - the same object, which might be an expression of ego for one person, may be an expression of beauty for another person, and it is not obvious how to tell the difference.

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Then let's combine:
it's just data + real = it's real data ;)

So even if our PMR (as we see/sense/taste it) is not real, but the data at the core of our PMR _is_ real. The experience we get while interacting with this real data (using our unreal bodies with unreal sense organs), also is data and again - it's real for us, experiencers.

But there might be another level above us where we (IUOCs) are unreal, and again there may be even more super levels. So I guess, to really discover the unreality of some environment, you have to get at the next level. There are always two levels involved - each level may contain the evidence for the "unreal" nature of its inner levels. And this parent->child nesting also explains why the cause of our PMR is outside of it. Because child can be born by its parents and not by itself... but maybe it's only a PMR logics...

Hmm, so I have come to the chicken-egg problem. Anyway, I am sure, there is no way the egg could come first. Most probably it was a hen with an egg inside. Such a big NPMR hen with many PMR eggs :D

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In order to understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.

Midix,

PMR does not originate from NPMR. There is a link in that the NPMR from which most of the IUOCs that incarnate here in this PMR come from as in existing continuously there in that NPMR. The origin of PMR is just like the origin of NPMR in that it is generated and maintained at the level of AUM, the LCS itself. What we experience in PMR is as real as anything gets. That it is Virtual does not mean that it is not real. The physicality is a simulation but it is intended to be a very convincing one. We are to take it perfectly seriously, even when we know differently about its nature versus the appearance.

Ted

I walked into my daughter and son-in-laws room yesterday and said "I'm about to say something deep" and said "Virtual Reality is realer than real Reality" to them all, a friend was there too. Then we all laughed as I said, "well maybe I shouldn't have said it was going to be deep." Katie told me she loved me and I left the room. :)
Love
Bette

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

I think it's important to remember that the effects are as real, whether they are caused by objective external reality or by subjective probabilistic data. Tom says there is no brain in anyone's head until someone's skull is opened up and it is viewed. This is a massive challenge to how we see the world but it doesn't mean we should start acting as if we haven't got a brain. The effects of having a brain remain but the effects come from the generator of the virtual reality not from the brain itself.

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"There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them"
George Orwell

I know how you feel.. When your boss is yelling at you( not particularly at you i mean..you get my point) its hard to just rub your head and chant "this is not real..this is not real" cause its real..its part of reality. Small picture..which is part of big picture. Tell your boss that!
Jk. If i offended you unintentionally.

Tom talks about this ultimate big picture "mysticism" of the absolute origin, which is beyond our grasp. The impossibility of existence itself becomes your foundation and the basis of absolute openness. We don't really know what is going on - Tom cooks a very good model, the best around, but its still all very perplexing and mysterious, amazing. Joe vs the Volcano addresses this waking up to a fundamental state of amazement.

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

I would say this is the one effective use of "its just data"...it can be used to dial up detachment from the specific datastream

for example, I can be experiencing a severely negative emotion...every couple of months I get a very down day...I just ride it out...but as well, in bad moments, I have discovered that I can say to myself

"I am really depressed...this is interesting"

or

"wow, this is a very impressively negative state"

...shifting my point of conciousness from being the emotion, to observing the emotion

its very important to not let intensely negative days to trigger negative behavior

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

the mechanics of something exist as a separate paradigm to the usage of the device

an airplane mechanic or engineer, will experience an airplane completely differently than a pilot.

the engineer may never have flown an airplane. The pilot may not know basic physics.

Ultimately though, flying the plane is the point, if your role is a flyer.

You do not want to be the guy who's plane sits on the tarmac because he is obsessed with reading the manual.

When on a ride at Disney, you need to get out of your mind the reality that there is a warren of tunnels, electronics and activity below the park, in order to be an effective Disney guest.

The actor on the stage, becomes and embraces the character.

The thought comes to mind...who arranged this trip and where do I post my thank you letter? ; - )

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

what is an airplane

Aka aeroplane

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"There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them"
George Orwell

The whole virtual reality thing is a potentially useful model but should not confuse the matter of the value of the experience it provides. Its value is in what it teaches us about that which is fundamental.

Another way to approach the issue of PMR as real or not is to consider that question as irrelevant in favor of the question "what insight into that which is fundamental does PMR experience help provide?"

zzz

Spiral, i am not quite sure what you are saying. I think you are trying to describe consciousness as being some type of physical stuff. From where all of the interactive matter, that we interact with comes from. What do you think is perceiving the data as matter when we sleep, a physical waveform, or are you saying we are some kind of stuff that we simply can not describe any other way but as to be physical. I would agree that consciousness is indeed a interface of a process, of the stuff we call data, that some how intertwines in the interface to become aware. But i really have not a clue as to what this stuff is made of. other than it being something other than what it is creating. And my logical interpretation would be that it is something, some kind of non physical stuff that is growing into the void, which is nonphysical also. Fred