Again another one sided. If you see the ego buttons being pressed point them out. If you think you can teach something be more specific, and let's see if you can deal with your fear as well as with your ego, because you just mentioned me, not Ted. So do you think he is perfect?, same way Bette thinks? So Ted never said or says anything wrong. Wow.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

We are all perfectly imperfect Clau, as it should be, perfection doesn't leave room for growth. I will give you that Ted has presented himself as capable of removing unwise posts, and in that way he is an authority here. He has, in fact, removed a post or two of mine when he saw that I was making an error in judgment in reveling something in this public realm that might come back later and bite me on my asset. That is one of the many bits (yep, using the word like I want, and sorry for being petty, petty bette) of evidence that I have been gathering for the past year here, who knows how long in the big picture, that shows me Ted is the man, I mean Ted has wisdom that I don't, and he is willing to use his energy to care for others well being. Tom is the authority here because this is Tom's website about Tom model of reality that he has been allowed to share with IUOC like me that may not even be worthy of having this information. Tom remains neutral, in my opinion, because he knows Ted can handle this. It doesn't mean that this is useful though, being a pain in the asset isn't always useful, only at special times when something needs some chaos. I don't believe that this is the place for chaos, like me calling you names, etc. I was wrong, I am sorry, and I apologize for being that way.

You want specific evidence of your ego interfering in communication here? What I see is that you may, and probably do have some very useful pieces of the puzzles we are all working on, our own little puzzles as well as how they relate to the bigger puzzle, that we are all exchanging our stories here to put our data "out there" so others can freely access it, discuss it, ask for clarification, say what we think, add to it, etc. You seem to be requiring me particularly, but whomever dares call you on your ego, to declare Ted "wrong" before you are willing to freely share whatever information you may have. That is an ego based choice, in my opinion, and one little bit of evidence I hope you will think about the probability of it being so. If you are unable to do so, well, we are all perfectly imperfect with room for growth, even Ted okay?
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

If you re-read my posts and Ted's posts you will know what I am talking about. I didn't say he was wrong, though, I just gave my opinion. I said that I think that you think he can never be wrong.

To declare somebody "wrong" is not ego if the person that declares has honest "intent" or intentions and feels that way.
What is "ego" playing is when somebody never admits he is wrong, and that's apparently the way Ted behaves.

If somebody can prove me wrong from the words I wrote (not the words I didn't write, like Ted does most of the times), I don't have any problems to identify my possible mistake and change myself (lower my entropy) so that next time that happens I can do better.

I saw a phrase today at the gym that I liked:

"You should not judge somebody for trying something that then did not work or came up wrong, but for not trying"

These means also that anybody can make mistakes but if somebody doesn't try to admit and change from his/her mitakes he/she is missing another opportunity to improve.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Claudio,

Most folks on this board have used Toms teachings successfully 'which Ted also follows' and proven to themselves what he has written is true and works, your writing goes against the grain a little bit and it is very confusing where your coming from. It looks like its not only myself that feels this way, I will be the first one to tell you I still have ego and fear that I am working on and successfully dealing with following the information / guidance in MBT and a few others. Everyone's path is different, you have your way of looking/interpretation of things and it looks like the majority of us have a shared /common way of looking and understanding, there is no need to debate 'Ego', or PRESS YOUR POINT with bold caps 'Ego" or believe in what others are saying, you along with everyone will find out on their own and in their own way. If you are trying to convert people to your way of thought its easy enough to start you own website / discussion group then you can have everyone there learn the Claudio way of thought.

Claudio I am not a good teacher, I consider my self a student.

thynes

If you say my writing goes against the grain (I don't know which grain), point my exact writings.
I guess you think this board follows only one specific direction and whoever does not follow that direction should go somewhere else. I totally disagree with you. The reason I keep posting is not because I am stubborn but because so far I agree 100% with what Tom wrote in his books and I love him and admire him a lot. I sent him a couple of private messages and he pleased me with prompt extraordinary answers. Unless he asks me to leave this board and not come back I won't leave because I want to learn and possible teach somebody from a different perspective. I am also open minded skeptic and I follow what Tom says that everybody should build their own My Big Toe. I am not trying to convert anybody to anything. I think this is a free country and we have free will. I don't mind anybody disagreeing with me, but it looks that Ted gets upset when I don't follow exactly certain way of thinking he has. Tom is very different from Ted.

If you think there is only One MBT you should re-read MBT because may be you did not get that the book is not intended to be followed by believers and create a close minded way of thinking.
If you don't have an open minded skeptic attitude you are limiting yourself, independent on MBT.

I have my own website for a long time: http://soprano.com and it has a growing "spirituality" section http://soprano.com/spirituality.asp. My site is open for anybody to add links for free. I am also an internet service provider and manage multiple domains, email, etc. I am a web developer and have a team and use latest internet technologies.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Claudio,

You have interesting insights and I respect them greatly, as I respect everyone's on this board.

BIG BUT:

You aren't going to win over a lot of the people on here by starting a contest of who's right / who's wrong with Ted or anyone else on here. You have been a member on here for roughly 2 and a half months. Ted has been a member for almost 6 years. Most of us didn't even know of MBT then. Accept that Ted isn't going to change his TOE for you. Don't change yours for him either. Say your piece, debate it peacefully if you like when he (or anyone) disagrees with you and then LET IT GO!

I have a lot of respect for Ted's dedication to the site. No, I do not agree with everything he posts or thinks but I do not feel the need to argue my points ad nauseum. I leave it up to everyone else to decide for themselves the veracity of the material. If it's useful to your growth great! If not, don't worry about it.

With your experience, intelligence, and writing skills you could eventually have become a voice many respected on this board. It's not too late, but quit digging the hole you're in or you may not be able to climb out. If you think Ted is being pig headed about things, be the bigger man and just let it go.

With utmost respect and concern,
Ramon

Oh yeah,

Just so it can't be said that I'm not being fair,

Same to you Ted!

: )

Ramon:

Good post. Your feedback was valuable. If you analyze why I do what I do is not because I want to disagree or argue. I don't want that at all. Like I said before I just go against posts that go against or neglect individual spiritual evolution. I don't think Ted and Tom hit the same notes with respect to individual spiritual evolution but I don't mind. I respect Ted's way of thinking. Ted's way of thinking or authority is not what bothers me. What bothers me is that when I give my opinion he gets upset because he thinks I don't follow his way of thinking. People should not get upset because people are different. But what I don't like and I don't do is to "create" words or statements from nowhere and make everybody else think they came from me. Judging somebody from words he/she did not write is not proper from my point of view. I am inline with Tom in opposing to "superiority" concepts. I don't judge posts because somebody is a "Newbie" on the board or whatever. I consider posts independent on who writes them. I respect Ted history of 6 years here, but Ramon, you should not rate postings based on time on the boards. "Newbies" may come with lots of NPMR experiences, and they may be very evolved beings, so you never know. Some "Newbie" can teach us very important things. Judging by the time on the board is not correct.

If I were the board moderator I would try to let people express freely. If they don't go inline with my thoughts, I would just leave my thoughts and let it be. I would never say "You keep choosing not to see it", or "You keep choosing to disagree".

I would also recognize my mistakes and take into account people feedback so that I won't cause people like Claudio keep posting. I would put my ego behind and admit I could have stated my words in a better way and make a difference between MBT's statements and mine and won't keep saying how great I am or compare myself with Tom several times.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

I am a big enough man to understand that my absolute refusal to accept Claudio's additions to, or opinions of, MBT concepts because he had not yet finished reading the trilogy only having read the first two books during the time my refusal to consider his ideas was in place probably started all this. He has since finished the trilogy, but on this goes. I also realize this probably is my ego speaking thinking I could have caused so much miscommunication or trouble in paradise, I hope I am partially wrong.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Claudio,

I concur with Ramon. We don't have to agree on each and every word or thought here. Each of us is making our steps as fast and as slow as we are able to make. Trust us or those who will be reading MBR and this board later on that we are able to get the best of all provided information. We, all of us IUOC, become better only according to individual abilities and readiness to become aware of this or that.

Ted has help many people here. He is a patient man, as far as a human being, or IUOC of VR could be on a board like this one. It feels to me that it is your test that you set for yourself. A wise man would not insist on his way of thinking, he would say it once and let anybody go his or her own way.

Sorry, Claudio. This is a voice of ego, believe me, I know it from my own experience, I have it too.

Lena

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

Claudio: "I don't judge posts because somebody is a "Newbie" on the board or whatever. I consider posts independent on who writes them. I respect Ted history of 6 years here, but Ramon, you should not rate postings based on time on the boards. "Newbies" may come with lots of NPMR experiences, and they may be very evolved beings, so you never know. Some "Newbie" can teach us very important things. Judging by the time on the board is not correct."

I wasn't meaning to say I was judging the posts. I was saying that you need to build a reputation HERE before you will be able to carry as much weight as someone who has been here much longer and has contributed meaningfully for almost 6 years, a la Ted. I meant you don't want to upset the apple cart too soon. That's all. Sorry for the confusion. The idea comes to mind of Tom joining another forum somewhere and being ridiculed for his ideas as a "NEW" poster. You're right in what you said.

If you recall some of my responses to you in your very early posts, I found them very insightful and a welcome addition. I still do.

Claudio: "If I were the board moderator I would try to let people express freely. If they don't go inline with my thoughts, I would just leave my thoughts and let it be. I would never say "You keep choosing not to see it", or "You keep choosing to disagree"."

A noble way to run a board. If you did say those things to me, I would say, "You're right. I disagree. We do agree on that at least, my friend."

Ramon

What can I say? I said I'm powerless in PMR and if having your thread hijacked doesn't illustrate that, then I don't know what does.

I also said that PMR is grossly inefficient. The arguments here have demonstrated that too. I can't for the life of me understand what they're all about! Anyone seen the Fawlty Towers episode, "Communication Problems"? Classic. I recommend it. It's a shame that my personal recommendation means you're all going to shun it like the plague.

But wait! I see a way to rescue the whole thread. Here goes:

Claudio, you could accept that like me, You have no power over others' perceptions of you. Zero! Zilch!

Since I suspect you come from a machismo culture, I feel absolutely confident that you will NOT take my advice. And that's OK! It just proves my point - that I have no power in PMR. By a weird kind of reverse psychology, that empowers me. Do I sound like Marvin the Paranoid Android? Maybe!

I reckon them-up-there are having a laugh at our expense. And why not? It must get frustrating in that computer room.

Ross,

For what it is worth, my favorite quotation from the Hitchhiker's Guide is "We apologize for the inconvenience." as a statement attributed to "God". My next most favorite is the reference to learning to fly by falling and failing to hit the ground. It seems so characteristic of living in PMR.

Ted

Ross,

It's ironic and maybe not a coincidence afterall that your "hijacked" thread ended up demonstrating EXACTLY what this PMR is for. Interaction with other consciousness units is what it's all about and learning and growing from it as a result. It has demonstrated both positive and negative ways to deal with disagreements and provided a fine example of ego related problems that are at the root of most conflicts.

You are mistaken that you don't have any power. Your recognition of the fact that "you have no power over others' perceptions of you. Zero! Zilch!" is in itself very powerful.

Thanks for the recommendation. I will check it out soon.

Ramon

I checked out the Fawlty Towers episode you recommended. John Clease is always good. It was hilarious. I appreciate you pointing it out. My dad is a fan of British Comedy so I will be looking for this on DVD for a gift. Another board member, Arthur, recommended Dad's Army last year which I bought and my dad loved. Thanks again.