Now that quamta, is the kind of extremely useful information that I have been suggesting to Fast that he provide rather than just pronouncements and opinions. There are good sources of information on the Internet. Each of us can individually go out and dig up sources and then try to evaluate the quality of that source. But board members will not go out and do that with no perceived reason to do so. Why should they if they have no present need for it? That it might be of value later is evaluated against the certain trouble in the present.

If you, speaking in general, have developed that kind of quality information, then failing to provide the link to that information, provide a description of the information available and make some kind of statement about its quality, presuming that you know, but instead you say "I know that so and so is true", "go and dig it out for yourself" is not a desirable way to interact on the board. The reaction of others is justifiably to be at least a little irritated and then to ignore your posts in future. The idea is to be helpful to each other and provide information, bringing it to the attention of those who likely are unaware of it. Not to brag about supposed knowledge and then withhold it. To share and expand valuable information available to all.

Do you not see a fundamental difference here between what quamta has done and what Fast has been doing? This is the basic reason that I repeatedly suggest that others do not just post a link and say 'check this out' but instead provide some description of the information and why it is valuable and certainly to post a link and not just someone's name. It is a little bit of trouble but it saves that trouble to each if the 50 or more people who will possibly investigate over time, if not thrown off and with no interest at all since they are given no basis for making an evaluation.

Ted

I think the broader issue here is the effectiveness of the Forum "immune system" in identifying actual disruptive threats vs merely novel information, holding the overall health of the forum in profitable balance with what is best for the newcomer.

In particular with active passionate newcomers, the entire focus of interactions should be on studying their needs and interacting competently, but most importantly, lovingly, rather than the other thing....defending our own prejudices, pumping up our own egos and so on...(I am mostly reminding myself on this latter point ; - ) )

I thought this was a particularly good event in that once Ted initiated his "challenge probe", we did not all "pile on", but rather assumed emotionally supporting postures, and it seem to have concluded well.

My suspicion is that the system is waiting on us to step up our game in this regard and that it will feed the forum traffic as we develop the skillsets to handle it.

==

Indeed the book is irritatingly long, heavy, and embarrassing to explain to others. The first read through I expect is normally just to say you have done it and to get the T-shirt, with little absorbed. I believe the second read through is actually the first actual read through with absorption.

One way to interact with the Trilogy is to bookmark the google books version and do keyword searches that might be inspired by forum conversations or youtube videos. A key tool is to learn to cut and paste trilogy quotes as a forum argumentation tool.

MBTOE is either a very elaborate lie, or the most important book on the planet, the universe. Even if your assessment is a 99/1% split on this, why would you be so determined to not spend time with it?

The physical book is convenient to have around, open at random pages, underline stuff, make notes in the pages, think of questions to torment Ted with. There are used versions that can be bought cheap, though this is not as supportive to Tom's effort to cover costs.

Woven within the detail of the book are subtle fantastical nuggets that you will not capture by simply watching the videos or participating in forum discussions.

As part of TOEist best practises, I propose that you find a fun comfortable way to weave the Trilogy into your routine. One thing would be to structure a point of the day where you pick up one of the books and open at a random page, and read one page, or something similar with the electronic version. Doing it this way would introduce some uncertainty for the system to play with.

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Ted! I agreed you had a point, And the detailed data that Quamta posted was very ordered, And I learned a lot from it, My main point was that our current system in play is seriously flawed, And buyers be aware, If I where to post individual reports of such things there would seemingly be no end. But maybe I or others should post enough sites for this current topic to have enough credibility, Just to open peoples minds to the bigger picture of our health. Fred searching for truth

The concept proposed is neither to post every thing that you run across on the Internet nor to post adamantly or egoistically your opinions about things. The concept proposed is to post on the basis of providing real information to open board members awareness to concepts that they may not or probably are not aware of and that are appropriate to the My Big TOE 'world' and expressing or illustrating MBT concepts. Providing full information to make the value of the links clear so that viewers can see a reason to bother to look up the actual information, rather than simply reject it as someone's posturing. To provide a service to others rather than a grandstand for one's own passions or opinions.

Our only certain task is to interact so as to improve our own quality and to not contravene the free will of others. We cannot act directly to improve the quality of another, only our own. At the same time, we do have a responsibility to protect the free will of others and to optimize that free will for all. Part of doing so can be to provide information so that others become aware of threats to their own free will as being misled by society and the propaganda and agendas of particular groups acting deceptively.

Ted

Kroeren, I am working on growing up, And I am not afraid to be myself, And I am very happy with my progress, If my way of delivering my truth is offensive to some, It Still does not mean it is novel and not true. Being prejudice towards our motives especially if they are loving, I don't see as a bad thing. As far as reading the book, Read as many books as you like, If that is what you choose. Find a way that best suits you. I get what Tom is saying loud and clear. Fred searching for truth

There you go again Ted with your double standard! I don't think your strong persistent political stance is any more in line with MBT concepts than the stances I take, In fact one might think they would take a back seat to mine , As far as your views on our motives for posting these things they seem to reflect as much on you as anybody. I don't see whats been going on as a bad thing in the process of growing up. Fred searching for truth

Yes Fred, we know that you do not understand. Nor can you be bothered to try to do so. As you say:Continuing in that vein, you never will understand.

Ted

Fred - I think participation in health and medicine is about common sense and balance. I too feel a frustration for a populace that doesn't take care of themselves and then expects the health care system to cure them. And I agree that the health care system can be very flawed. It is not based upon wellness and prevention but rather on treating symptomatically. That is not surprising since in this country health care is a for profit business.

I am always amazed that in all the talk about future health care expenses there is never a discussion about reducing costs by making the population healthier by diet and exercise. Oh well, maybe that time will come. In the mean time you can only work to make yourself healthier (and your loved ones if possible.)

But we do live in a reality that has a rule set and a large degree of randomness. That means you may have a genetic predisposition to certain illnesses. And you may have something random happen to you. If you are in a horrific car accident you may be very glad to have a system that is, in most ways and in most cases, geared up to take care of you competently. And if you get appendicitis I imagine you will go in the hospital and get it taken out. Otherwise it may burst and kill you.

On the other hand you have to weigh by whatever scientific evidence is available and your common sense what preventative health care and medicine is best for you. My mother (who was a nurse) could have lived much longer if she had started getting colonoscopies in her 50s. Unfortunately she waited until her early 70s when she got diagnosed with late stage colon cancer. Her only option was radical surgery and aggressive radiation and chemotherapy. The radiation did a lot of damage to her system and she had long term complications from it. But she did live for 3 years and otherwise would most probably have died within 6 months.

There is a lot of changes happening right now in recommendations for preventative tests in women's health care. I don't particularly want the radiation of a mammogram if I don't need it. I have discussed it with my doctor and she disagrees with the newest recommendations. I then have to weigh my decision based upon my family history and health before deciding what to do.

Common sense doesn't throw the baby out with the bath water.

I do highly recommend that you read the book. You will never really understand the theory until you do. There is just so much more detailed information than in the podcasts and videos.

Sainbury, I like your honest views, And yes I whole heartily agree the system offers a lot positive things. I just like to open peoples minds up, So to think for themselves, And not fall into the trap that they are powerless. It seems we give up power to a particular way of doing things, and forget about there may be better ways, Especially ways that best suit us instead of somebody else. As far as your recommendation I will consider it. Fred searching for truth

Understand what? And continuing in a vein of honesty especially to myself is my mainstay for growth. It seems one of Toms main reasons for putting this data out there was to inspire us to become aware of the LCS, And to find our truth from our experiences. I guess you are going to beat that quote of mine like a dead horse! Maybe you should be on a political forum where that practice would be welcome. Fred searching for truth

Yeah we do too. Please read the book then you can better know the openness which exist here. I haven't seen or heard you say anything bigger than what I'm aware of although it doesn't seem like you've said anything that made it obvious you hadn't read MBT. You could always learn something new too you know? It's just data, take it in why wouldn't you want more data? http://books.google.com/books?id=6To090 ... rs&f=false
Thank you in advance. :)
Love
Bette

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

That is a point well taking Bette, Thank you, I will consider it. One thing about the mind set of the people on this forum I like is they don't follow the leader. Whoever they think they are! Fred searching for truth

Fred,

Perhaps you should consider that you will never open our minds just by showing us that your mind is closed and just how tightly closed.

Ted

Possibly nothing is so invisible as the closed-ness of a mind when seen from the inside.

Montana