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 Post subject: Re: PORN
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:40 pm 
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i think it is a good idea you have chosen to take a step forward and curb your addiction. generally, too much of anything is going to be a bad idea. maybe this passage from Far Journeys can help you avoid over-emphasizing sex in your life as well as it did for me.

Quote:
I found I was standing a few feet away from an enormous pile of writhing
forms. It reached up, slanting back as high as I could see. In each direction,
right and left, it swept off into the distance. It reminded me of
nothing so much as the interweaving of huge fishing worms in the bottom
of a can after being left there overnight. The motion was continuous,
thousands upon thousands, each wet slippery form wiggling in and out
among the others in the pile, searching, trying to do something . . . but
never achieving satisfaction.
Three perceptive shocks hit me simultaneously. The forms were not
worms, they were human! Second, the incredible, staggering radiation of
sexuality, both male and female, that emanated from the seething mass.
Third, they all were physically dead. I wanted to turn and run, but some
other part of me held me in place. I finally calmed down enough to
become analytical. Did I want to join in? My whole being shuddered in
rejection. No vestige remained of the sexual drive I found so important
moments before. I had the strong percept that it would come again, but
never where it would control wholly what I thought or did.
With this flash of knowing, another emotion washed through me—
intense compassion for those trapped in the undulating mass, so focused
and intent on seeking sexual satisfaction they were unaware of any other
existence—anger at a system that could so inhibit, repress, and distort as
to create the situation in front of me. Were these the castoffs of the
human process, to remain so throughout eternity?
I moved forward slowly and stopped close to the edge of the pile. The
moving bodies were male and female, of all shapes and sizes, glistening
with wetness. A bare hairy leg thrust momentarily from the pile, and I
grabbed it by the foot and pulled. . . . The leg pushed out blindly, trying
to move more deeply back into the pulsating mass. I pulled harder, trying
to keep my grip on the sweat-covered ankle. Slowly, I was able to pull the
rest of the body clear of the pile. It was a man, small in stature, darkhaired,
fine-featured, of indeterminate age. He lay there on his belly, his
arms and legs moving crablike, attempting to pull himself back into the
pile, totally oblivious to the fact that I was holding on to his foot and
preventing him from doing so.
I easily held him in place, bent over, and shouted in his ear, (Hey, I want
to talk to you. Hold still for a moment!)

There was not the slightest indication that he heard me. His face was
fixed, a gleam of anticipation spread across it. He kept trying to move back
and I held him in place, wondering what to do next.
I tried another approach. (It's the cops, the police, they're raiding the
joint! Gotta get out!)

I waited for some response, but there was none. I couldn't provide him
with the radiation that would get his attention. I released his foot, and he
crawled back into the mass and was swallowed up in the movement. I
turned away sadly and stretched for my physical ident, and returned without
incident.
From that point on, I had a new technique to control any surfacing
sexual drive. All I need do is think of that wriggling, writhing, mindless
pile of humanity. That does it.


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 Post subject: Re: PORN
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:35 am 
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Montana wrote:
The first thing to be said is that this topic is well off the main topic of MBT. However MBT claims to be a model that subsumes all other models ( it is a theory of everything ), and so if neither Tom nor Ted object, a good TOE should take on all comers.

The second preliminary thing to be said is that this thread should almost be a sub-thread of the "differences between the sexes" thread. Men consume the vast majority of porn, many gravitate to it like moths to flame; but women seldom are consumers of the stuff, and when they are, it is generally because a male companion wants them too.
Montana,

this topic is well off the main topic of MBT I think this topic is very much about MBT. Let me dessect it from MBT perspective, as I understand it.

A big picture is not about details, and in this case porn is a characteristic of attachment or addiction, but it can be sugar, tobacco or any other strong addiction as well.

A young man, Dhan, becomes aware of his belief/attachment/addiction, i.e. he is more open to a bigger reality, and therefore his decision space (DC) has been expending for awhile. Otherwise he would have no concerns and keep watching porn as it was before.

A young man's intent is to be free of his attachment/addiction. He is acting upon his intent, i.e. stopped watching porn, and at the same time he is learning about himself a lot. Changes come very slow, but if his intent will prevail he will be free of his addiction. In a process his DC and his confidence in his free will grow, as a result, when he will part with his attachment/addiction he will be stronger and wiser, be aware of his power to change himself and much more.

And this is only a short list.

Lena

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 Post subject: Re: PORN
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:28 pm 
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Interesting thread, perhaps I can offer some food for thought.

It's interesting to me that many of the posters here are simply assuming that porn and/or intensely sexual people are 'bad', and can only result in bad things, or is itself the result of bad things. Let me offer some alternative ideas.

My wife and I are extremely sexual creatures, and do not practice monogamy. In other words, we're swingers. Now, when viewed from the perspective of traditional western morality, which for the most part has it's roots in Judeau-Christian morality, we're dirty, nasty, immoral scumbags. Many of you may be thinking something similar of us as you read this post.

But let me share with you something about our life and adventures.

Once a month we get together with a group of friends for a party. Yes, it's off the hook with sexuality, orgies, just about anything you can think. But the truth is, for most (but certainly not all) of us, it's about much more than that. It's relationships that become friendships that become love. It's about the monthly parties, sure, but it's also about sharing time with good people at breakfast the next day. It's about family time where families meet and mingle. It's about the casual, primal connections that become lifetime friendships of others that we actually consider more like family, and not just friends. We've formed more real relationships with our fellow humans as a result of our kinky activities, compared to so many others that we know who are 'normal' that I can't help but wonder if it might be something to recommend for others.

We know, personally, many people who are involved in porn. Actors, actresses, producers, writers, you name it. Despite many of the horror stories you have read (many or most of which are probably at least partially true), most are very much doing what they want to be doing, and are happy with their lives.

Not exactly sure what I'm trying to share, I guess the bottom line is that extreme sexuality is assumed to be bad without examining that assumption for accuracy, and in light of our experiences, it's something that's been positive, especially where the amount of love in our lives is concerned.


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 Post subject: Re: PORN
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:23 pm 
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kmoze2001,

Sex drive, as many other things, is not bad or good by itself. Our intent only matters, to see why one does this or that is important. As long as you and your adult friends enjoy a swinging party, and nobody gets hurt, or mistreated, and a mutual concent exists between all participants, or no minors involved, I cannot see anything wrong, even it wouldn't be my idea of entertainment, when I was younger. If all this done only to enjoy each other, and there is no other purpose behind it, this is fine and dandy.

Lena

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 Post subject: Re: PORN
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:34 pm 
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kmoze2001 wrote:
Interesting thread, perhaps I can offer some food for thought.

It's interesting to me that many of the posters here are simply assuming that porn and/or intensely sexual people are 'bad', and can only result in bad things, or is itself the result of bad things. Let me offer some alternative ideas.

My wife and I are extremely sexual creatures, and do not practice monogamy. In other words, we're swingers. Now, when viewed from the perspective of traditional western morality, which for the most part has it's roots in Judeau-Christian morality, we're dirty, nasty, immoral scumbags. Many of you may be thinking something similar of us as you read this post.

But let me share with you something about our life and adventures.

Once a month we get together with a group of friends for a party. Yes, it's off the hook with sexuality, orgies, just about anything you can think. But the truth is, for most (but certainly not all) of us, it's about much more than that. It's relationships that become friendships that become love. It's about the monthly parties, sure, but it's also about sharing time with good people at breakfast the next day. It's about family time where families meet and mingle. It's about the casual, primal connections that become lifetime friendships of others that we actually consider more like family, and not just friends. We've formed more real relationships with our fellow humans as a result of our kinky activities, compared to so many others that we know who are 'normal' that I can't help but wonder if it might be something to recommend for others.

We know, personally, many people who are involved in porn. Actors, actresses, producers, writers, you name it. Despite many of the horror stories you have read (many or most of which are probably at least partially true), most are very much doing what they want to be doing, and are happy with their lives.

Not exactly sure what I'm trying to share, I guess the bottom line is that extreme sexuality is assumed to be bad without examining that assumption for accuracy, and in light of our experiences, it's something that's been positive, especially where the amount of love in our lives is concerned.


I fully agree with what Lena has posted.

If you have looked at your own intent and motivation with honesty and humility, and have found that swinging has the potential to reduce your entropy and will make you a more loving being; then this would in fact be a "good" choice relative to you.

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 Post subject: Re: PORN
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:38 pm 
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I agree Lena.

I guess I was trying to tell people to challenge your own assumptions about things. Many of the posters on this thread have treated the idea of using or creating porn, or intense, outside 'normal' sexuality as 'bad' without questioning whether or not that baseline presumption is actually true.


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 Post subject: Re: PORN
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:50 pm 
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kmoze2001,

It was their experience, and it made them unhappy, uncomfortable or they felt, that have outgrown this, and it was time to part with it. I used to like to have a glass of red wine with my dinner, or gin and tonic before dinner or little bit of liqueur after it. I don't drink anymore, and all of them don't taste to me good at all.

Lena

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 Post subject: Re: PORN
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:17 pm 
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The 'bottom line' as they say is whether the Intent and the intent are good. Whether the free will of one is not violated for the pleasure or other benefit of another. This can be difficult to maintain in this kind of environment, but not impossible. These are the true determinants of good and bad within Consciousness Space.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: PORN
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:53 am 
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kmoze2001 wrote:
I agree Lena.

I guess I was trying to tell people to challenge your own assumptions about things. Many of the posters on this thread have treated the idea of using or creating porn, or intense, outside 'normal' sexuality as 'bad' without questioning whether or not that baseline presumption is actually true.


I believe Tom's son wrote a piece on ethics where he cites swinging as an example of an activity that is moral because it does not involuntarily constrain the decision space of another.

Whenever I see references to "Bikers for Jesus" or "Porn Actors for Jesus" I know I am looking at a pure form of AUM penetrating PMR, stripped of all the puritan holier-than-thou BS.

As the Nazarene said, we have to take care that we avoid being whitewashed tombs, pure and holy on the outside, but dark places of rot on the inside.

That being said, the old rulesets regarding sex were established according to the Darwinian process carving out cultural memes over tens of thousands of years, subject to the consciousness and technologies of earlier eras.

The key question is whether or not swinging and porn and the rest are profitable under the current technology and local consciousness environment of the specific FWAU.

Personally I would welcome swinging if it would help men avoid the deception and damage of affairs and support families remaining intact. For everything, there are costs and benefits to be weighed, short, medium and longer term, and differing impacts on the sexes and children.

Some really great datasharing here! A ten minute conversation with a 70 year old grandmother who lived that life would pretty much answer this question for me personally.

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 Post subject: Re: PORN
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:46 am 
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Thank you all for your responses. It is very insightful.

My personal intent behind quitting porn, as I have said, is to just become a better and more awesome person. I don't want to be a loser in life. Thinking of myself watching porn on a random wednesday night or tuesday afternoon with nothing to do just makes me 'personally' feel like ehh. I want the real deal, real 'women.' I realize that there are tools here that can help or not help us. Porn, in my case, doesn't help me because (whether it is placebo or not) I become complacent with regards to the other sex and my motivation. My imagination and attraction for women becomes muddled. I haven't even considered the background of the porn actors/actress until one of the posters mentioned it. Now that is also part of my reason for not doing it, but honestly, it's for a better growth of me right now.

I like what Lena said about the DC expanding and opening myself to a bigger reality. That's what I hope to gain from this. I don't expect that this end with porn will miraculously bring great fortune or happiness upon me today. I know the change will be slow and tedious. All I know is that I can intuitively sense that this decision is a growth inducing one. And it's common sense, as well.

Another of my intent with no porn is to have a healthy and clear sexual spirit--in physical and mental spheres. I just have to say... Within 12 days of not watching porn, I ended up having sex with a close girl.... we've had sex before. But this time, the sex was... amazing. I realized that human connection is stronger when you're not having a connection with porn. I like to think esoterically that my sexual spirit is cumulating and energy just pumping until sex happens. But constantly masturbating and watching porn makes that spirit go all over the place. To say that sex is just sex and at the same time special is so true. Routine porn watching, to me, is a signification that one is too caught up on an objectification of sex and women.. it's a crack in the vase and the water is leaking and the flowers are wilting. The bees wont pollenate it and the world will end. haha.

This is just another small decision in my life ahead of me. It's empowering and humbling to me to that I have made this decision and that at the same time it is hard. Sure, no one will know in public that I don't watch porn. No one will give me a job for it. A beautiful woman won't come up and say "oh, I think you are such an awesome man for not masturbating and being a cool". But I know I have made that decision to grow. And I know that my choices in life thereafter will be about having a clearer intent on who and what I want to be, etc etc. yawn.

Thanks for your support once again guys. My posts are a bit more on the pmr related stuff because I don't have any npmr experiences and I've accepted the fact I grow within pmr. it would be cool to experience nmpr but maybe I'm just not ready and as many of you said, pmr is where the pudding is at.


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 Post subject: Re: PORN
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:56 am 
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I understand completely. That is why I stopped having casual sex. It made me feel icky.
Love
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 Post subject: Re: PORN
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:24 am 
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kmoze, an easy way to realize your true motives would be to try and be monogamous for 2 or 3 months. if this idea doesn't appeal to you perhaps you can ask yourself why that is.


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 Post subject: Re: PORN
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:02 pm 
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I think each of us has that next thing that we know we should change based on our perception of feedback (rather than someone else's judgement)

I think we just need to be clear in our minds to separate our own PMR ego and health and power issues from issues of the higher rule-set

To construct an extreme example, in a way, the hooker who cannot beat her meth addiction, and is a few weeks from ending up dead in a ditch due to lack of impulse control or other weaknesses, faces the supremely important intent tree of precisely how she crashes, specifically how she manages her impact on others as she is crashing.

That being said, I also feel it is a bit disrespectful of AUM and our IUOC to choose to abuse the gift of a sensor platform (as perceived from an unevolved state).

We may be obligated to make the most out of our PMR tour, and while becoming love is the primary goal (according to Tom), optimizing use and effectiveness of our sensor platform perhaps is an important secondary goal (my speculation), maybe something that is as well being communicated through the feedback mechanism.

now that you have completed a feedback-led self modification loop and see how it works, you might want to think about the next and after next thing you should change to increase your effectiveness.

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 Post subject: Re: PORN
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:53 pm 
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pondini wrote:
kmoze, an easy way to realize your true motives would be to try and be monogamous for 2 or 3 months. if this idea doesn't appeal to you perhaps you can ask yourself why that is.


While the idea does not sound appealing, the reality is such a thing happens on a regular basis, and it's no big deal. Not sure what to make of that.


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 Post subject: Re: PORN
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:59 pm 
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Last edited by Marcello on Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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