Hi Everyone, newbs and pros,

I am 22 and I finished sections 1-4 the past three days and skimmed through 5-6 today. Not out of disrespect but I have finals coming up and my mental focus began to wane and I wanted to finish before I start studying. I will definitely go back and read 5-6. I am still open and skeptical. Not in belief nor disbelief, just like "ehh-what?" but curious as well. One of the upsides of me is that I can clearly see my own ignorance and know I'm not that smart.

My main question is: So, to experience npmr, decrease entropy, raise consciousness.... all I have to do is begin meditating? And hopefully within a year I'll start having these experiences? Let's just get straight to the cookie and leave out all the "ohh but you have to come from the right mind.... be kind... etc" ideas. I do want to be a low consciousness entity... who doesn't?

My honest motives for trying to do this....
1) This is so stupidly out there that I am willing to consider it. (Open&Skept)
2) Who wouldn't want to eradicate all their fears, ego, desire, want, etc?
3) Success with women. Mind fuck women within the rules of AUM npmr gangsta yall and get my confidence from it. Say hi to my higher being etc. (I'm 22, male, give me a break. If pheromones exists, this isn't too far out either) (Yea, some of you may think my intent or entropy is high but I'm being HONEST. I'm not hiding my reasons)
4) I had a panic attack a year ago while I was abroad and fear of self, depression, anxiety, all that good stuff rose up. My delusional self shattered and started building up the ego and delusion again all the while knowing I rather build up truth and love but howwww.....<3 :)

Like seriously though....

I know I gotta go on my own path, do my own EXPERIENTIAL research, but as I asked, I start by meditating?
And I'm sorry if by asking "how I start" is a stupid question to ask... that's the only logical question I know to ask at this moment.

i sincerely ask for your insights.... and personal truths that may help me,.... no dogmatic ideas plz

Dhan,

Welcome to the board. I can relate to a lot of what you are expressing here. Perhaps telling you how I got started would be of interest, or help you in some way. You may be already experiencing NPMR and not even make the connection. This was the case for me.

Initially I had no interest in anything that wasn't "logical" or founded in "reality" nor did I have any desire to meditate. I thought it was for those people trying to get in touch with nature, eating yogurt and doing weird yoga shit. I figured it was just another branch off the crazy tree to be honest. Some years ago I began to notice something that got the wheels turning. I often would think of a song in my head and sometimes people near me, at work, or friends, would start singing it. Another example, I would be chilling at home and suddenly think "Gee, I wonder what so-and-so is doing?" Suddenly my phone rings and it's so-and-so. In one case I was at work focusing on my task at hand and all of a sudden I thought about a friend, someone I don't talk to regularly, or think about much. It was so pronounced that I couldn't focus on work for a moment. It seemed out of place, and because I had been keeping tabs on these types of events, on a hunch, I checked my email. I was not surprised at all to see an email from her at precisely the moment she came into my awareness.

I began to wonder how these types of things are even possible. My friends and I discussed these events and they say that they too experience this stuff but they had no explanation for it. I formed a theory, that perhaps thoughts were not just in your own head. (Of course later I learned it was not an original theory) This really had me searching for answers. I began to read every book about the strange and paranormal, I studied all kinds of religions looking for answers. In all my reading, the out-of-body stuff seemed to interest me the most. I wondered if thoughts were not just local in the brain, it made sense that perhaps the whole sense of self might not be either. I finally came to the conclusion that the realm of thought is where this kind of stuff originated, and thoughts were the way to find out what is going on. This lead me to meditation, and later I found out about Robert A. Monroe, and the Monroe Institute, and eventually made my way to TOE which put it all into perspective. I meditate now, but it has nothing to do with yogurt!

I did find confirmation to my suspicions, but much of the things I learned were not things I had originally intended, or had in mind. In order for me to understand things deeper I had to change who I am. This is a life long process which can be very humbling and challenging, but worth it in every aspect.

Meditation was like opening a door to greater understanding. You have nothing to lose and much to gain by opening this door. The fact that you are even curious is good. Those moments that made you reflect on your self and the situation could be a clue. Perhaps the best way to start has already been accomplished by you. When you take a good honest look at yourself and want to change and to learn more you are moving along, I would say. Keep reading!

One other thing, please read this thread about relationships. It might offer you some insight there as well.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2772

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Any introspective work, be it spiritual or psychological, is going to give you tools to manage emotions, be happier, or less tormented, and happiness is a strong attraction regarding women.

Happiness will increase your effectiveness in school and work, bring you better material results, and hence a sharper car, which is a fundamental part of the marketing package towards the opposite sex

Fear, specifically fear of rejection, is death for that game, so you may use approaching women as a development tool for overcoming fear, and once you get the hang of it, fearlessness will greatly magnify your results in this regard

Meditation specifically, and creative activity generally in my personal view, will stimulate your right hemisphere, which leads to you becoming more empathetic, and an empathetic persona is highly attractive, at least to certain women.

If you drift into using your skills or psi to deceive or take advantage of women, it my understanding that any small wins would be offset by significant painful educational circumstances that the system would arrange for you....kinda like karma

Get out an egg timer and see if you can sit still for 60 seconds, maybe repeat a mantra

Once you can do this, you are a meditator....see if it makes a difference....work up to 20 minutes twice a day...Tom's recommended dosage I believe

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

I hope my story might help you in anyway it can.

Anyway, I sucked in the relationship department for the first 27 years of my life (I'm still working on it). All through high school, I never had a gf. I participated in student gov and sports and was well known and "popular," but it just never happened.

When I was 18, I left for college and FINALLY had my first kiss, first gf. Four months later we broke up (my fault). This left me bitter, angry, and resentful. I was stuck in this stage of my personal development and remained single for the next 9 years. Nine years is a long time lol.

When I was 26 and sharing an apt, one of my roommates happened to jokingly refer to a book detaling the exploits of guys who could go into any bar/club and pick up any woman. She expected me to ridicule these "pathetic" guys as she did, but a light bulb went off instead. I asked, "Is this for real?" I read research online. Finally, I ordered 2 books that would change my life forever. They are The Game by Neil Strauss and The Mystery Method.

For the next 1-2 years, I religiously followed the principles. I explored more books by different authors. I even joined an online forum (similar to this one) in my city. I went out with fellow devotees to pick up girls every Thurs, Fri, Sat as often as I could. I was limited to these 3 days b/c I was working. Some of the crazy guys I knew went out 4-5, even 7 days a week. In this period, I cold approached maybe 800-1000 girls. I got rejected or the interaction fizzled the majority of the time -- maybe close to 98-99% of the time.

Anyway, these years were more about breaking away the layers of my ego and learning the basics of human courting. I finally found love when I was 27 - nine years after my first gf. Finally, I had another gf. Nine F'ING years dude, lol. What a relief. I look back and just can't help but laugh at myself and my follies.

This path worked for me. Maybe something here will resonate with you.

Again, I def recommend:
1. The Game by Neil Strauss
2. The Mystery Method

Those are good places to start.

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Rasa

Sliver and Kroeran,
Excellent responses.

Dhan,
Welcome to the MBT forum.

It is true that meditation is an excellent tool for growth. It may not be the only tool. We discover new tools all the time and we discard old tools. Some tools are like training wheels and eventually (like training wheels) they could hold us back if we dont let them go.

Tom said that "You dont need to get out of your body. Your consciousness is already out of your body. You need to get into your consciousness"

With that I would add, as sliver suggested, we all do get little "nudges" from time to time letting us know there is a bigger picture that current theories cannot adequetly explain.
And as kroeran suggested we do get feedback letting us know when we are going in the wrong direction.


peace
patrick

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LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

Dhan. Yes. Start by meditating. Clarity of intent will soon follow. Hope it goes well.

In the romance department - I recommend a practical book called 'Handbook for the Urban Warrior' by The Barefoot Doctor (AKA Stephen Russell). Should be available on Amazon. I picked up this book when I first arrived in London in my early twenties. The book takes ancient Taoist energy principles mixed in with affirmations and self hypnosis. Within a month or two of applying the exercises, I had girls literally throwing themselves at me. There was no pick up technique required, I simply had to walk into a room and 'bang' it all just played out in a highly predictable fashion. I hurt and angered a lot of girls (and guys) and compromised my integrity and conscious energy during a stage of about 5 or 6 years. I was basically filling the aching void within me with as much content as I could; and none of it could transform a basic lack of self worth that I felt and that I had tried to find in others. You will not find a sense of self worth in other people.

I would like to state that in no way is it the book's fault that I behaved the way I did. The book communicates the importance of the quality of one's intent, however like any powerful tool, it can be used for better or for worse. Either way, this is the path that brought me here.

In recent years I have become more loving, less ego-fixated and more aware of my intent. Now I lead a simple life: no women/woman (currently), artificial mind enhancers, or needs other than to express my love purely, learn, apply my learning, and share what I have. I meditate 2 hours a day - just holding a love vibration within my conscious being. I have never felt more love in my life than I do now, nor do I feel any need to derive love from others. I guess this is what happens when one moves towards becoming love.

Page 107, Chapter 15, Book 1:http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YxMf-lyn0qoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=my+big+toe&hl=en&ei=2754TaeNIsbdsgadisHtBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=how%27s%20your%20love%20life&f=false

Tom's patience as regards this sort of thing is an inspiration.

"Soon" is relative for feeling the effects of meditation, as I understand it. It can take months or years.
Love
Bette

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

...or lifetimes!

But ya gotta start somewhere :)

Thanks for welcoming me into the forums everyone and thanks for the replies. Very cool. Naturally, I have more teeming questions bursting but I am not going to ask them all for the moment. I'm going to take it in one at a time.

Can you go to npmr to heal your own self as in physical ailments? I took accutane as early college student and I think it messed with my already sensitive stomach... I have chronic gastritis. Am I being selfish? I want myself to be healthy so that I may be more productive in what I do and give good vibes to myself and others.

^ Does lucid dreaming fit into npmr or is it strictly obe and other stuff? Am I not experiencing paranormal because I'm not ready? I started meditating and some times I see images of hollywood and japanese movie ghosts. It scares me a little yea but it just proves to me that the media is so damn strong. Some times, I get scared about meditating because I think I'll see something I wont want to see. Again... influenced by media portrayal of psychotic etc and other stuff.

Thanks for giving me advices on the woman department. I have to say and its hard to explain... one of the patterns I see in me is that I tend to want to be with every woman that I find attractive whether I know that person through school or a random person at a mall. (Quoting a line in Adaptation: Why do I fall in love with every woman I meet?) And by want, I mean sexual intimacy. I catch myself in this pattern and it gives me a stirring of emotions because I usually do not speak to them. Perhaps this is high entropy desire running through me, etc. But speaking biologically, maybe its just pure sexual desire, a beta male gazing at the female it can't have etc. O btw, did I also mention I feel like a pussy that I'm here spiritualizing the matter of woman instead of just going to talking to these people because I lack some balls? :)

To say that it'll take months or years for the effects of meditation initially made me a bit overwhelmed but I guess that's the way it is. You know, from past year and a half I was drawn to and read about "these" things. Stuff like pranic healing, new agey feel good thing, the secret, quantum psychic, deepak chopra, etc, and now this. Some of them are wack. None really helped me be a better person. I hadn't intentionally sought this book. It just sort of sprang out at an online forum. Once in a while I wonder why am I reading this thing. I haven't tasted any pudding, dude. And the fact that I read the book expecting a 9 easy step to enlightenment but instead a bunch of quotes I didn't finish reading got me a little mad haha and made me feel dumb. So I guess that's it then? Meditate, experience your own consciousness, and take it from there.

Last question. Okay, so you do the meditation. for months. years. What about your external life. like school. and job. and stuff like that. do you just continue to do them normally? Will the meditation give new ways of going through your external jobs and duties?

Sorry for the extensive questions. I'm simply utilizing you all to make me understand lil by lil because my professors in school wont.

Sounds like hormones man. Part of the Human biological rule set and perfectly natural. You're 22? Good age to make mistakes and hopefully learn from them!



Tom's Hawaii Videos show you the ins and outs of healing in NPMR. This is something I'm trying to get better at.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ubikmonroe# ... Lw-VYw8DGw

Nick

Yes, but you don't necessarily have to think of it as traveling anywhere to do this, it doesn't have to be that complicated. You attempt to use your focused intent to affect the probability related to your health. It can be as simple as having an awareness about the food choices you are making. Things in your life may suddenly click in such a way that you do something different that brings you the health you desire. Hope for the best possible outcome and be willing to make changes. I don't think this is selfish at all my friend.


Hard to say. Things that are beyond our PMR could be considered paranormal. It depends on the experience of the individual ultimately to sort out what is what. To those that have much experience beyond PMR everything is normal. We are exactly where we need to be and you don't need "paranormal" things to grow and learn here. It does seem to be the case that the more growth you have the greater your perspective will be of the nature of reality. The things you see in meditation may represent a fear you should try to understand and overcome. Meditation is a tool to help you grow. When you encounter a problem try to work it out and move past it, so you can let these fears and insecurities go. You are what you think, consider what you expose your mind to and ask yourself if these are things that help you grow towards your goals.


I am very happy to hear you share your thoughts and feelings here. Please do not think negatively about your choice to share them with us. As you grow you will be concerned less about what other people think of you. This is that pesky ego popping up. You can't find security in the opinions of others. Security comes from within yourself. I would say that your desires are part of being a young man. As I got older I noticed these signals much less, now they are balanced and calm. I too see many beautiful people, these days I try to make it a habit of elevating my thoughts about them. I think "What a beautiful person." and generally try to send loving thoughts, look past the body and try to get a sense of the personality as a whole.


Look at meditation as just another thing you do in your life, if you so desire. I find that it is important to be balanced in everything you do, and try to enjoy everything you are doing. I work, and have friends. I do so many things, play music, joke and laugh, talk to many great people, and some days I meditate. I am not hardcore about it, a few times a week. The thing is, I am much more aware of my emotions and perceptions. I try to stop myself from saying stupid things, or acting foolishly. It really is just a daily effort to be more loving. I pay much more attention to everything and look for feedback on how I am doing with my growth. Every moment is precious for that. Find what works for you. I know some people meditate twice daily, others not at all, but as I said it's just a tool.


We are all teachers and we are all students. No need to apologize thank you for posting here.

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Re: meditation as another thing you do in life

Tom has pointed out even meditation/OOB/NPMR can be overdone. As he points out we incarnate for the spiritual growth opportunities and the most entropy reducing potential opportunities occur in PMR.

RBM, I agree completely thank you for making that point. Bringing some clarity to my attempt! :-)

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Thank you for responses.

Dhan im same age feeling tha same way about stuff.

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All Praise to Dez Bryant "Feed tha Beast"