NOTE: Since posting this, it has become apparent that hemi-sync is not actually "out of favor." Rather it can be viewed as "training wheels" which can indeed help accelerate progress but which one should strive to get beyond as soon as capable.This said there are a number of good responses and a link to Tom Campbell's own detailed instruction on how to use binuaral beats below.

Hi,

Just starting seriously on the meditation path and have a question. In one of his vids Tom says that Hemi-sync is a "trap" in that you don't learn to go OOB on your own, so it just delays your progress as an independent individuation, so even though he pioneered it, don't bother.

Sounds logical enough, but then again, if Tom started OOB "with" Hemi-sync, and then further developed on his own to the point he didn't need it, why shouldn't we?

Add to this, on the Monroe website there is a quote from the head of the Vancouver Buddhist temple who says that people are doing things with one week of Hemi-sync that took him 30 years to accomplish! Needless to say, I don't want to recite my mantra for 30 years before exploring astral domains!

I normally don't argue with a master before testing his approach, but the data is incongruent for me at this point and the timeline if this antithesis is correct is prohibitive.

So, what say ye all on hemi-sync?

It isn't my kind of tool it seems, but then again I have not put much time and effort into using it.

What was meant by it being a trap was actually slightly different than you may have perceived it.
It could be a trap in that you could get dependent on the tool and are thus limited by it.
You are supposed to be aware that this can be a tool to get you on the way and ought to drop it as soon as possible.

Also, from what I heard, Tom was quite capable of going "OOB" much earlier and without the help of hemisync.
He had the experience to notice that this kind of tool could speed up other peoples ability to do the same.
Back then they where searching to find such ways for more people without them needing to go through years of meditation and study.

Welcome to the board!

Hi Gnosis2078

I’ve tried hemi-sync, specifically the Gateway Experience series. For me the half-hour segments in this specific series were too short, and the CDs are quite expensive. I think you’re better off trying to make your own binaural beat file, or trying to find something that’s longer than 30 min. I also think that binaural beats are a trap only if you get stuck with them and don’t just view them as a tool to get you started.

As for me, I never had any unusual experiences using hemi-sync, whereas, when I first read about lucid dreams and tried to induce them using techniques that I found online, I immediately ended up with OBEs (the mundane kind where you don’t really leave your immediate surroundings, but I think this is common for beginners). I haven’t really pursued this, but if I wanted to induce OBEs I would try wake induced lucid dreaming techniques again, rather than binaural beats.

caspie

P.S.

I have also tried some other commercially available binaural beat CDs, one of them, which was in a higher frequency range than hemi-sync, gave me a splitting headache in under 15 minutes every time I tried it, I’ve also managed to induce the same type of headache meditating on my own, so in that sense binaural beats definitely seem to work☺.

Hi, Gnosis.

I believe in the video you reference Tom is talking about a visit to TMI where one of the people he knew said they were working with a new tone they had found and he said Tom should try it while he was there.

IIRC, Tom found that that particular tone kept snapping him back every time he try to OOB, so he asked for some pink noise.

I write the above just as a way to give more context info as to which vid it might have been. Far be it from me to answer for Tom or Ted re: Hemi-Sync.

Gnosis the thread below I think is what you are looking for - the thread starter is Tom Campbell

http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5056&hilit - Binaural Beats as a Meditation tool -- How To Use Them

Awesome answer from Tom himself! Thanks! From confused to expert in 3 minutes! Illumination is a wonderful thing.

I have gnaural downloaded and will be mixing up some files as per Tom's guidelines soon.

I plan to do regular beat sessions alternating with "manual" old school techniques. Has anyone else tried this two tiered approach?

Gnosis,

A search for binaural beats finds 328 posts. They are in 9 different threads on just the first page of 15 results. This has all been discussed and rediscussed many times on this board. If you want, you could check them all out and see just how many approaches have been taken. If you were ambitious, you could create a listing of what approaches in what threads were successful and which were not. We could then remove some of the failed directions from the board and you could post a list of winning approaches.

Ted

many references point to Tom being open to people using Binaural beats, but to move away from them once you establish some capacities. I suspect this is a love-based suggestion to the Hemisynch crowd to take off the training wheels.

I have put a challenge out for someone, anyone, to record that they got out for the first time with BB - so far no takers.

That being said, I dabble with Entrainment, the Apple app, which is easy to use, as well as gnaural, which usually ends up with me having an afternoon nap!

I also dabble in OBE4U stuff, but mostly, I just end up disrupting my sleep cycle.

I suspect the easiest pathway is lucid dreaming, and I like ReeceJones on youtube for his short courses on this, which begins with recording dreams and figuring out your dreamsigns.

Tom encourages people to get out of their PMR backyards, but he is very vague on how to go about doing so, other than his precise instructions regarding meditation. Virtually all TOEists who have NPMR capacity, arrive with it already in place, and I am aware of one old timer who got out for the first time, only after years of effort.

I believe Tom's intent by implication, is that his model is to provide comfort and orientation for those with PSI experience, not so much to technically help people achieve OBE who do not have this already, but most importantly, his fundamental teaching is to work on becoming love, which relates to your moment to moment intent->....

thats how it looks to me at this point

==

is there any way to upload MP3 files to this site? I have created a couple of binaural MP3 files that follow Tom's protocol - this would save people a lot of trouble, and I am sure others have such files.

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Randy,

If you wish to share files of any kind with others, there is a free service called Dropbox. This permits you to upload files to directories that you create there and give out links to those who you wish to have access to download those files. Here is the link: https://www.dropbox.com/ There is more to the service if you go to a pay for service level.

I have their free version and use it to send periodic copies of daily downloads I make of the BB and the Wiki to Tom and to Keith/Donna at MBT Events for archival purposes with geographical dispersal. I manually load the files in specified directories and the system should automatically upload them although last time I had to do it manually. Then it automatically downloads to their computers. I have Dropboxes minimal and free setup. They will give me more storage for referrals so if you would use a referral, it would be helpful. Let me know and send an e-mail address you wish to use and I will set up an invitation to you but you don't need one. The system just gives me another 250 MB of capacity for use by MBT without cost for each invitation that ends up being used. It is also available for each computer that you use for synchronizing purposes and also on mobile devices but I know nothing about that as I only have the one computer and a minimalist cell phone. Since you seem to work from home, you might find it very useful in communicating and sending large files back and forth to your home office.


Ted

Is this really the consensus? I took it from the section in Tom's book about the early days, his work at TMI, and the fact his co-worker Dennis also had NPMR experiences, that binaural was a strong catalyst and way of initiating.

Surely probability denies that Dennis M and Tom were BOTH already were travelling OOB before going to work at TMI. Also the "Is this real" section seems to suggest that while he had experienced OOB as a kid, which he states everyone does and just don't remember, it was only in working with Monroe and beats that he got OOB personally going again. The comments in the Wall Street Journal also implied that TMI attendees were initiating there.

Is my interpretation of the data incorrect? It has been known to happen... EG. My OP. :)

Thanks!

Try the start of the Monroe Institute Lecture. Should be whithin the first two parts.
It is on Tom's channel on Youtube.
You can also get it here from the list in this thread:
viewtopic.php?p=50964#p50964
This is audio only - download, then listen. It's not for streaming (but might work).

I don't have time to review the above tape, but my recollection is that Tom and Dennis got out using Bob's pre-BB technique, which is explained in Bob's books, and that BB for this application was initially developed after this by Tom and Dennis in Bob's lab (which is why Bob's heirs apparently own hemisynch, as a separate entity to TMI, the latter which is a non-profit, ....if I understand correctly, based on a posting by someone here - pls correct me if I am wrong). If one wants to seriously get into BB, or get feedback on it, one should probably hang out with TMI dudes.

It appears that for whatever reason, Tom's focus, apart from gunning for the Nobel prize for physics, is on promoting meditation and becoming love in this PMR, directed intent (healing), .....and exploring beyond PMR, when that naturally occurs, rather than forcing the issue. He has given advice on BB in this forum, but it is not something he goes out of his way to promote, and he warns against overuse, though this is a moot point for most of us still PMR bound, at least consciously.

It is possible that most MBTOE associates, once achieving NPMR capacities, would rather bomb around in NPMR than hang around this forum, discussing the model or answering my surveys about such. That being said, as far as this forum is concerned, no-one has stepped forward to say "I tried Binaural Beats and had my first OBE experience". I think part of what is going on is that the experience of NPMR is so profound and so unbelieveable, that few are prepared to talk about it, especially in a public forum.

The necessary crumbs have been laid in the woods to follow, and you follow them, or you do not, end of story...I suspect there is some of that going on. It seems to me at this point that trying to achieve lucidity in dreaming, is probably the most realistic first step, as gaining an OBE state from lucidity is apparently relatively easy.

For those with the money and time, a trip to TMI would likely be a good investment. A TMI person told me that very few are able to follow the TMI CDs on their own, and require the commitment of being at TMI. I presume Raduga's workshops are active in Europe. I see Moen is active and there is an institute north of Tampa that is running a workshop with him this month.

ReeceJones on Lucid Dreaming (skip the youtube intro ad)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3GJTkG60X4

TMI Gateway program
http://www.monroeinstitute.org/store/20 ... -2012.html

Moen's workshop
http://www.templemound.com/

Raduga's "experiments"
http://school.obe4u.com/

We should probably have a broader discussion of this, hopefully with input/advice from the "travelling" community.

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Kroeran;

As far as OOBE i have found there are two completely different Ballparks. The Sleep cycle yields I would guess 95 percent of all OOBE es. This I think is the group Tom referes to is easy. And that many people do experince.

When he says its exponetially harder to actually learn something from an OOBE. I have come to conclusion he is refereing the Other way. Non Sleep cycle.
This is where one can lay down at any time of the day and, and in a functional amount of time get to the void state. Say under 20 min.

That is the platform that one would need to gain data, do research, experiment, Learn.

I Feel i have given the Sleep cycle Way a thrur row working over. Intent is very deminished. One is more funneled. Less controll of the enviroment. Due to Not turely having the ability to hold the nessasary state of conscoiunses..
All experinces seem to have a purpose that one needed, Deviating from that Curiculum seems to Fog out the experince and ruin it. They seem more Supported. Proped.

The Sleep cycle way, Is a lot times easier to obtian with little other than solid intent on it. during sleep. That said It might only be accesable due to assistance. Atleast Having some Funneled/Curiculum experinces. Buzzes, vibbs, Input flumes of data, void might be a natural part of a sleep cycle.


OOBE from BB to me seems to apply to the other ballpark. Deriving the state. And i Feel this comes far after from the first method has been tapped dry.

In the Awake cycle. The void/ Stable state is foirgen. It seems to slowly evolve. not a sudden long experince suddely arrises from a med. It first comes, with say wafting after maybe 30 min of med.
As the Awake Consciousness. handles that. It slowly changes. To drops of sensation. Then maybe to quick sinks out. Each Slow change comes After 3 to 4 months at a time.

Binuraly Beats. Seems to me shortens and quickens this. I have developed sum. That I can repeativaly Sink out to the VOID state. First one In maybe 5 mins, Then sink for 10 seconds, Then in a nother 3 mins a nother one comes. And so forth. SLowly over time. The Sinking to Void last longer.

Goal being be able to hold it long enough, to go get data, Look in to an idea or sumthing.

Thats as best i understand it currently.