As this PMR was generated by AUO/AUM how come it doesn't share the FP of evolving towards lower entropy? Why does PMR evolve to higher entropy?
Is it just this PMR whose non-sentient environment tends to increased entropy, or do AUO's virtual reality systems generally have a set up where FWAUs are working for decreased entropy against the flow of their environment? Does the ever-increasing entropy of the environment present special challenges and learning opportunities for us and does it ensure that this PMR has a very definite, albeit lengthy, time span and end point?

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"There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them"
George Orwell

I think that you mix concepts of entropy. It is part of the PMR rule set as 'physics' that entropy increase in the sense of thermodynamic entropy. Stars burn out. The universe will eventually end in a so called 'heat death' at a uniform temperature. But that is long term and insignificant. All that needs be done is push reset or create a new and slightly different PMR which no doubt goes on elsewhere all the time.

Then there is the question of 'social' entropy, as we might call it, if that is what you mean. That is not necessarily increasing here in PMR. To the extent that entropy remains a problem, it is because newcomers, new IUOCs at a beginning level, keep entering this system which keeps the level high. Thus Tom refers to this regularly as a kindergarten level VR. It is thus something that never becomes 'fixed'. It just metamorphoses into new shapes and threats. While some develop and mature with lower entropy, perhaps leaving the system, many others enter to hold the entropy level of IUOCs participating here at a high over all level.

While NPMR is not a democracy, PMR world wide is not either but developing that way. In NPMR, the appointed managers are high quality individuals who all in all, produce good results. In PMR, besides the dictatorships and bad social systems, individuals reaching or taking positions of political power and control are more likely to be capable high entropy IUOCs rather that low entropy IUOCs. They are the ones who tend to be driven in that way. Low entropy participants have other concerns in general that politics. Just look at our own politicians in our nominal democracy for prime examples. Tell me that the US Congress is not composed of high entropy individuals, by and large. Tell me that PMR politicians are not also by and large, high entropy individuals. There lies the problem. And voters are, as relative kindergartners, not inclined to vote based upon good and rational reasons with a good understanding of the situation but based upon their high level of entropy as the kindergartners that they are leading them to be so called, low information voters.

Ted

I think this (and probably other) PMR evolve to higher entropy because it is part of the rule-set that is designed to facilitate high-intensity interaction for us as consciousness.

Your body is constantly fighting the effects of thermodynamics. It forces you to eat, move around, etc. and therefore interact with others. It's the interaction with others that helps us reduce our IUOC entropy.

That's how I see it anyway.

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Mike

Got a reply from Tom from his Youtube channel:

"A "yes" to all your questions. Rule-sets create simulated enviornments. Most likely, enviornments that dissapate their energy over time are the only ones that are stable in the long term and don't continually require more computational resources."

He's very quick at replying to his comments and messages :-)

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"There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them"
George Orwell

What were your questions as the ones above don't seem like yes/no questions?
Love
Bette

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

I think this PMR has the potential to become much more than so called daycare, i just can not buy into stagnation, call it wishful thinking, but i think the intending goal for consciousness cycling here is to change the overall high entropy in this PMR by changing ourselves. I hope to see the graduation of us to explore the universe at large with quantum technology and beyond. Once we stop all of war, and start looking to the stars for answers, i think that is when the snowballing will start. New IUOC coming in, will in my opinion start changing (lowering entropy) at a much faster rate. To put it in new age terms, create a heaven on earth. Sabby

Change is slowwwwwww

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Are you sure it was Ahash31 really typing this? If it helps you out, does that even matter?

hashjazz.com

I don't recall stagnation being suggested. I do recall it discussed that while newer bits come in and more Evolved bits move on there is also a gradual reduction in Entropy going on in the entire system meaning it is Evolving too. A slow lowering of Entropy for the entire system where the newer bits coming in are a tiny bit more Evolved than they used to be and the ones not coming back are even more shiny. :)
Love
Bette

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

That's interesting, I hadn't thought of it from the computational resources point of view.

Could you link to your YouTube questions?

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Mike

Hi Bette and msagansk

Here is the link to the youtube comments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4pbEgSUPYI



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AA

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"There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them"
George Orwell

I've just read a bit in Tom's book where he says that this 50 year period will determine the next 500 years for humanity, and whether we destroy ourselves or evolve depends on each of us as individuals improving the quality of our own consciousness. So I guess the future is still in the balance.


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AA

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"There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them"
George Orwell

AA,

Please in general provide a link or reference when you make comments like this. Where specifically within Tom's books are you referring to? For reference purposes, you might go to the version on the Internet in Google Books as linked to the Wiki. Here is a linkage page to an alphabetized index to this on line book and matching paper versions. http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/index.php/Index_Link_Page Every page on the Wiki also includes a general linkage in the left hand margin to this version of the books on Google Books. If you can go to the corresponding page there to what you are referring to, then you can provide us on the Internet with a link to what you refer. This is much more useful than just a comment like you made above.

Ted

Book one section two chapter 27 bottom half of page 224 and first half of page 225

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YxMf ... oe&f=false

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"There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them"
George Orwell

Thank you, that is better. Tom actually says 'half century' which while precisely 50 years, more roughly means up to perhaps the year 2050. When you talk about years, it implies a certain range of variation versus when you talk about centuries, it implies a wider range of variation. Not a big deal in this kind of situation, but now we know more clearly.

MBT is not principally about this but it is part of the over all project being undertaken as implemented from NPMR, in my opinion. Tom has described how and for what specific purposes he was set up to undertake the MBT project to change the paradigm of science. As Tom has also described, it is very difficult and takes time, multiple reincarnations, to make major changes in individual entropy. But as I have described, we are within a nexus of many factors within PMR that are coming to a head as we might describe it. There are all of the factors that I have talked about in terms of environmental degradation. The dying of the oceans from pollution. The over use of fresh water from so called 'fossil' sources as aquifers are over pumped. The degradation of agriculture with the use of GMO foods and chemical fertilizers and pesticides. The potential for disease vectors and uncontrollable diseases from excessive use of antibiotics and spread of viral diseases such as hemorrhagic fevers. The potential for climate change as rising temperatures from carbon dioxide and other atmospheric chemicals that promote global warming versus the potential for the normal cycling between glacial and inter glacial warm periods to continue.

On top of this, we have the social evolutionary question of whether wealth and power is to continue to be sequestered to the very few versus the many on a local societal and also on a world societal basis as I have described on the board in the threads regarding "Required Reading" for informed Americans. There is, if you look for it, a clear movement towards the consolidation of the power of wealth through effective manipulation and outright purchase of our political systems and politicians and it goes on world wide, not just here in the US.

Opposing this, we have the concepts of MBT providing a true understanding of the nature of our reality and the Internet as a potential world wide resource for the spread of knowledge of MBT and also of what goes on within society. And of course there is an effort at control of the Internet to minimize it as a potential source for change. The Occupy movements are world wide with information being spread by the Internet and also by the technology that results in cell phones which provide person to person communication in parts of the world where it is not so readily available by older technologies and the nominal news media which are increasingly owned and coopted by entrenched wealth and power. This is entirely outside of any knowledge of MBT with its own sources of analysis and information about the global economic forces and political forces and the nature of this struggle. Blocking this effect is the inertia of entrenched elites and the tendency of the uninformed as so called 'low information' voters where there are in fact even opportunities to vote. The more violent Occupy type movements are going on in the Arab Spring continuing events which are more revolution than evolution.

Much of this will indeed play out over the current half century which is mostly as yet ahead of us. Whether there will be a major 'die back' of world population or whether there is an effective leap into lower entropy institutions for world governance and agricultural and manufacturing technology and practice? Or will we see profit being the only continuing motivator and power and control being the only goal? What part might proponents of MBT concepts yet play in this evolution versus remaining an aloof and intellectual/metaphysical 'elite'. To repeat yet again, we indeed live in interesting times.

Ted