Hello everyone!

After studying MBT for quite some time and with two breaks in between (it felt a bit too repetetive and suboptimally structured at times), I think it´s time for my first (introductory) post on this forum.

Like I said in the heading, I am a philosopher and one with a highly critical but also open mind at that. Just like Tom did, I too am writing a holistic work where, in my case, I try to fit in and connect the important bits and pieces from all sorts of philosophic disciplines; the focus right now lies on epistemology. I seem to have forgotten the initial reasons for turning to MBT (questions concerning OOBEs perhaps?) which I was made aware of by a real life acquaintance. I can however say with certainty that my understanding of the world feels much more complete now and that MBT was and continues to be very helpful for my own work, where "consciousness" has now become one of the key terms for instance; I also quoted from MBT (concerning belief traps and the main goal of high-quality consciousness) and will most likely add more quotes before I´m done eventually (if that´s alright with Mr Campbell ;)).

To conclude this introduction, I have a question concerning my dreams. I´m usually very good at interpreting my dreams in terms of relating their contents to the thoughts I had during the day. A couple months ago however, I had a dream with a rather unusual quality to it: Vaguely speaking, I intuitively felt as if some sort of epistemic limitations were briefly lifted from me, that I briefly had a much less limited point of view which allowed me to glimpse "something bigger". I felt that this was something important, something that I should write down to remember it, but after waking up I didn´t, and whatever it was that had formed in my consciousness quickly got reduced to what I can tell you now.

Now for the past five days or so, I had similar happenings: Always dreaming of something (this time much smaller pictures or more detailed trains of thoughts) which I felt I should immediately write down on waking up so that I can remember them. But I was too lazy and it all became obfuscated again. Today after waking up I did write it down though: What I caught was the thought that, somehow, people with high-quality consciousness needed less to eat. Again, there is a perfectly "normal" explanation for that dreamcontent: The concept of high-quality consciousness is becoming more central in my thoughts, during the day I was eating more than usual and I also got a view of a somewhat more extended belly, so, as per the usual routine, it is not surprising that I dreamed about eating less and its correlation to consciousness quality. Nevertheless (and because of the psi uncertainty factor which Tom pointed out): Would there be some paranormal explanations for these dreams, especially for the first dream?

Hi Janus,

It seems like there is a period, at least, where the importance of journaling can't be over-emphasized. Follow those urges to jot down notes that occur during sleeptime (or even other times) and be sure to take the time to revisit them later. Not only do you get to hold on to nuggets that you would have otherwise lost, those nuggets get some refining with the attention, and more, it helps tremendously to integrate widely disparate portions of the psyche.

In my experience, both terms, 'dreaming' and 'paranormal', are almost more misnomers than indicators of some class of experiential event. The variety of experiences that can happen between closing your eyes in the evening and opening them again the next morning is so broad that it nearly amounts to injustice to let them fall under one label.

A couple months ago however, I had a dream with a rather unusual quality to it: Vaguely speaking, I intuitively felt as if some sort of epistemic limitations were briefly lifted from me, that I briefly had a much less limited point of view which allowed me to glimpse "something bigger". I felt that this was something important, something that I should write down to remember it, but after waking up I didn´t, and whatever it was that had formed in my consciousness quickly got reduced to what I can tell you now.

Yes all sorts of events can be experienced that defy epistimological attempts to pin them down: One can hardly think of them with any more facility than one can describe in words the difference in feeling between a major 6th chord and a major 7th chord. One group of such events could be classed as (relative to daytime awakeness, whatever that may be) 'hyper-conscious' : The experience itself is almost disorienting with its fresh depth, and the memory of it afterward seems to be a pathetically unfaithful record of the event. These hyper-conscious events, where epistimological constraints seem to fall away, are not that unusual. The best model that I have to work with at present has it that this is a PMR memory of what is an ongoing process in what amounts to 'some other part of our being'. Over time, you may be able to learn to access that 'flavor of perception' at will.

One method involves something that gets worded as 'Grasping the memory of that state with only the very edges of consciousness' ...leaving personal emotions and what usually passes as 'thought' totally out of the process.

The term 'paranormal' seems pretty vague and vacuous .... it means, to me at any rate, oh, maybe there are some UFOs involved, or some telepathy, some tea leaves, maybe a winning lottery ticket: generally untestable or unrepeatable anecdotal records of events.

Generally, it sounds like you would like some outside confirmation that your experiences are real and deserve your attention?

I would say that your experiences are real and deserve your attention. :-)

Happy trails!

Montana

Janus,

Regarding people with a high Quality of Consciousness, QOC, requiring less food, while it is not a normal aspect of looking at things based upon the principles of MBT, I would say that it is likely. Your QOC is not something which you as an individual incarnated here in PMR can actually gauge. It is simply not directly available to you or others. That is not to say that there might not be opinions held but there is not real certainty. Now as to the question of requiring less food, such an individual with much above the ordinary QOC would be eating with pretty good probability to sustain its activity level, energy level and physical integrity of its body under the PMR rule set. It would not be eating for purposes of entertainment, compensation for other negatives in its environment or sensory gratification. That in all probability to my viewpoint translates to eating minimally and certainly less that others who do eat for extraneous purposes than simple optimum nourishment. It is probable that such a person would be a vegetarian of some form, at least not eating the bodies of other sentient/conscious creatures. Tom has discussed this to some degree on the board. He chooses to not eat meat but will not as a guest at someone's table be rude or insensitive to his host by refusing what is offered. It is after all too late at that time to minimize the deaths of sentient creatures early in their life cycle just for the purpose of eating them. It is already dead and cooked, whether raised and slaughtered humanely or not. Insulting your host by refusing will not bring it back.

Regarding your dreams. That is a primary way that the Larger Consciousness System, LCS, communicates with and teaches us. I described some dreams to Tom for example which he recognized as training in teaching and counseling. Because we do not retain our dreams in our consciousness does not mean that we are not receiving benefit and information from them. Early on when Tom first asked me to post on his board to answer questions so that he could spend his time on the 'lecture circuit' and less time here on the board, I would frequently wait before answering posts until I could sleep and 'dream' the answer, which I might not consciously remember, especially as I tend to run a little sleep deprived as I wake up ever 1 or 2 sleep cycles, but the answer was there when I went to answer the post in question. I do less of that now as I have more of his model and how things operate in my conscious mind than previously and as far as that goes, I routinely answer questions that I do not consciously have the answer to but find I do have the correct answer. An example is in my answer to you above regarding eating less with high QOC which I had never had reason to directly think about but am perfectly satisfied that the answer I gave you is correct. Tom does come on the board to read around and occasionally post and has so far not chosen to correct anything that I have so posted as incorrect.

As a 'practicing' and I presume academic philosopher, perhaps you might like to look at our Wiki where Tom's model for reality is written out in a little more detail than in his books. http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/index.php/Th ... _Link_Page Another page that you might be interested in as a philosopher, or in which I would be interested in your comments on, is the page I recently added to the Wiki on metaphysics, particularly as within MBT. http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/index.php/Metaphysics I am going to terminate this here as the board will be taken down sometime relatively soon for repairs.

Ted

Janus, i was reading down your post and saw were you started to write things down of significance in your dreams. Good idea Tom highly recommends it, as far as you eating less, i think you had an intent at the being level to do such. And my science i do on intent tells me we follow that intent, rather it be positive or negative. For me i have no doubt about this as being real, I have written things down so much, that i now take it for granted that we can modify the future probabilities through intent. Do your own science as to find your own truth through your experiences. I find MBT the greatest tool available to guide us on a positive path of evolution. As to find our truth. Sabby

@ all: txs for your answers. I agree with Ted´s reasons for ppl with a high QOC needing less to eat. The question was directed more towards possible alternative models of explaining the appearance of that thought though (I think I should have been clearer on that). To put it more sceptically this time (playing a little bit of devil´s advocate): Do I really need to assume non-standard models of reality such as Tom´s to explain what I dreamed? (like I said before, my preMBT explanations for my dreams seemed to be rather satisfactory).

@Ted: What this IUOC thinks of your/Tom´s version of the term "metaphysics" is of no particular importance, because, as John Locke (1632-1704) has stated, we all associate at least somewhat different meanings (consciousness contents) with the physical word. For me "metaphysics" means above all "speculative ontology", and in my own writings, I have so far completely avoided the term because I prefer not to deal with merely speculative stuff. But I realize that when you talk about metaphysics, you mean something rather different, and I see how this term needs to be used in MBT and used with a different meaning, because MBT is full of new and different ideas, so it is basically mandatory that this must reflect in your/Tom´s rather different associations to the wordform of "metaphysics". Scientific terms always get redefined and rise and drop in importance and frequency of use; they are never that clearcut or even "right", just fitting. So as long as there is a very general overlapping with other versions, some general criteria of associating content and form are met, and the term "says" what you want it to say, I´m really ok with your version of metaphysics.

@Montana and sabby: I´ll make sure to have some pencil and paper near my bed from now on :)

Janus,

You ask:You do not need anything like MBT concepts to explain your dreams, if you are in fact satisfied with your prior explanations. It is simply a matter of how big the box is within which your thinking is confined. It does not negate prior concepts such as 'I overate a little today so it is not surprising that I dreamed about a reason to not do so' to also have the concept of QOC in your mind which expands the reasons to not do so as you are presently thinking in terms of QOC. The box bounding your thinking is bigger as expressed in your dream rather than just dreaming 'I can't believe I ate the whole thing' as they used to say in the AlkaSeltzer commercial.

When I asked for your comments on my write up on metaphysics, I was thinking more in terms of how you as a 'professional' saw it as clear and adequate. Perhaps you just did not so consider it and were being polite in avoiding saying so. As I stated in the writeup, I knew that we used a specialized definition as opposed to just referring to perhaps Wikipedia for a more conventional and extensively explained conception. One of the things I write about repeatedly on the board is to get across the idea that in the MBT view of reality, everything originated from the Void. There are no absolutes and particularly not in the definition of words with everything relative and subjective, dependent upon the history of the individual. One must therefore be careful at all times to use the right words to explain concepts and probably provide definitions tied to simpler concepts in critical instances when trying to be clear and discriminating in a discussion. All too frequently posters make statements such as "I fully agree" when it is pretty clear that they are not really 'fully' understanding each others context and not possibly therefore being in a position to 'fully' agree.

The suggestion to read the model write up was more a matter of thinking that you might find it less discursive and more succinct as well as being somewhat extended and add to your understanding of the original books. It was not clear from your comments whether you did read the suggested pages or not. Not obligatory of course, but I did believe it to be particularly useful information for one coming from a 'professional' philosophical orientation to include in your MBT input. No one so far suggested to read this has come back making clear that they did in fact do so completely and found no deficiencies or perhaps instead just gave up part way on understanding it. Again, you as a 'professional' philosopher would provide very useful feedback as to improvements required to make the presentation more fully understandable or perhaps logically complete. I am never fully satisfied with anything that I write as being fully adequate and complete. There always seem to be nuances overlooked and different viewpoints not covered. Since Tom has not found time for a rewrite, or perhaps not a need, I was hoping for a view informed from a different view and high level orientation.

Ted

I have done a lot of personal exploration and thought a lot about dreams. Here are the conclusions I have come up with:
* Your dreams are a personal data stream for you to learn and experience things that you can't in your PMR life.
* In most cases the situations and people in your dreams are unimportant.
* What is important is the overall feeling and challenge of the dream. Were you helpful, selfish, angry, etc.?
* Your emotions and choices in the dream are what is important because you participate in the dream data stream with you level of entropy and not your intellect.
* Your dream self is much closer to your real self than your PMR self. It will show you areas you need to work on if you pay attention.

There are a few exceptions to this where you have a meaningful experience with another consciousness.

Hi Janus and welcome. May I suggest a small tape recorder by your bed as it is easier as well as lets you stay more in that stream still as you just pick it up, push the button and talk in the dark if need be. Then it has to be transcribed but I think it would be worth it.
Love to you and yours,
Bette

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

apologies if there is repetition...I didnt read all the responses

- another point of recording dreams upon waking, even if in point form, is that it permits you to figure out your dream signs...which are repetitive things that almost always come up, but most importantly, knowing your dream signs permits you to recognize this and ask yourself if you are dreaming, perform a reality test, such as poking a finger through your palm, and becoming lucid in a dream. From lucidity, one can apparently work toward an actual OBE. I recommend the youtubes by Reecejones on lucid dreaming.

- I have recently discovered that a 5 minute snooze button on an alarm permits multiple wake ups and opportunities to remember dreaming, especially if your alarm is set early enough so that you are just a little short on sleep, otherwise you just wake up and can't drift back.

Caloric reduction, possibly unintentional, I believe was associated with Tom's first breach in some way. I suspect over eating in particular would lower your "vibration" level and increase your PMR grounding, likely to undermine PSI exploration if that is what you want.

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?