Entropy, as Tom (and I) use it exists at the level of our digital code and data as an IUOC. Thus, since this is us as we exist at our core or base level, it has its effect upon any FWAU that we participate as. Whatever we 'fix' from here in PMR due to our interactions and feedback at the being level as we say, accrues to the level of our IUOC (which is our being level) and thus to all aspects of our existence as an FWAU wherever into the future and as an integral part of AUM as we so function. Entropy does not represent our functional level here in PMR as it relates to problems or issues of ego or intellectual development or lack of or bad PMR information. It is inherent to our existence at a level below, at the very base of our functional capabilities. Overlaid on this is the PMR rule set requirement to start as an infant and re develop our capabilities here within PMR up to the level of entropy and QOC inherent to us at the IUOC level.

Entropy level is inversely related to our Quality of Consciousness as entropy within our IUOC undermines our ability to experience a VR or to participate in our AUM performance. But QOC would also, as I understand it, be affected by our general capability as an IUOC, the decision space that we can handle. To explain, if our QOC as an IUOC fits us to be an animal (not including the case of being on the borderline) but not a human, then no lowering of entropy will turn us into a human. A much better, more loving and capable animal of whatever type we incarnate as, but not as a human. Lowering of entropy would make us better at whatever we are capable of, but not make us capable of things simply outside of the envelope of our capabilities.

I would understand it as being possible, and demonstrably so within society, to have a very high intelligence, drive and fund of intellectual information and all of those properties that normally allow us to succeed here in PMR yet have a very low QOC because we have a high entropy level.

Ted

JR?

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Who knows the capabilities of our IUOC or anybody else`s, including the ones that play animal platforms such as dog and cats. Not to get to far out, but as far as i know TBC was acting at our level at a certain point. Entropy, being a measure of order or disorder, with the available data at our disposal, can i think have an expanding effect that is personal to the IUOC. No doubt acting here and trying to figure out the limits of an IUOC is out of our scope. But i will give you that it is logical that most IUOC stay locked in to certain types of platforms, that would appear to be more efficient. Sabby

Ted, would not a lowering of entropy for an IUOC that is fit to be an animal, eventually allow it to expand its capabilities to be able to take on the role of a human in a future incarnation?

I ask because it would seem to me that a lowering of entropy would allow an IUOC to handle a more complicated decision space. The digital code and data of the IUOC would have more "power" to manage more complicated inputs. Or are you saying that an IUOC that is structured to be an animal is structured differently than an IUOC that can be a human (structured functionally in ways that are different than just entropy).

To me, there's nothing really special about a human versus an ape in consciousness space, except for decision space. It's all just data, input, processing, etc. The IUOC would learn as a baby how to live and function as a human as every other human baby does.

Or maybe I just misunderstood you.

On another topic... I could see it being possible that the entropy of one piece of an IUOC could be at a different level than another piece of the same IUOC. Surely the entropy level of an IUOC is not homogeneous? As an example, Tom frequently refers to spiritual gurus who spend their lives meditating in caves as "unbalanced" - especially in their future incarnations.

Of course, you can view the entropy level of an IUOC or even AUM as one thing. But I think you can also break it into pieces, just like AUM can be broken into IUOC's. It's all just metaphors to help us talk about things, right?

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Mike

From the gathering in Charlotte 2011 Part 2 of 5 - 1:37 in

My question: What determines what the consciousness gets to come in to participate in the VR, I mean some consciousnesses come in as an elephant, or a dog, or a person? What determines that?

Tom: What determines that is where it would be most likely for them to learn something valuable. It's what you're ready for. If what you're ready for is the decision space of a dog because you can deal with that, because maybe you have dealt with something a little less than that before. And you get comfortable enough to have a greater decision space you may then come in as a monkey or whatever else. And then you get to the point where you can handle the decision space that's bigger, in other words it's profitable for you to have a bigger decision space, then you come in as a human. I think that basically what ever your consciousness is - if you're a computer consciousness then you are probably not going to come in as a human because then you'd have to think like a computer - you would come in something that was more suitable to you.

Me: Then we've all been lower...

Tom: Maybe. It depends on where we all came from. It's not necessarily that everybody started out as an amoeba and ended up here. But, yes, generally consciousness is evolving. All those consciousnesses elephants, dogs, and monkeys they're growing too. Just like the sheep that evolved morality. They made their decisions and then lived with the consequences. But it's a much slower game. It's a real slow game because an awful lot of what they do is hard wired. It's just the way they are. That means their decision space is smaller. Stuff that's hard wired is not part of their decision space. So they have a small decision space. A bumble bee has a small decision space. A lot of it is just hard wired. It does it because it does it because that's the way its genetic - it's evolved to do it that way. So as it can handle a bigger decision space and is likely the probability is significant that it can grow by that challenge - it moves up to that challenge.
Which is part of the reason you say we have this open system. Stuff keeps moving in from the bottom up and it keeps moving out. Yeah, it is part of a big evolutionary chain. But that doesn't mean that all of us used to be birds and then we were cats and then we were dogs and then we were monkeys. It's not like that. It's just that you end up where ever it looks like is the best potential for you to learn. If you are only used to handling a dog's decision space you don't necessarily get over whelmed with suddenly a huge decision space. You wouldn't know what to do with it. It would be frightening and overwhelming So you work your way up.

A little later after a question from Bette:

Tom: Sometimes a being that was a human might come in as a dog or a cat just to hang out with somebody. Just to experience it. You know it doesn't take much. You know you have this IUOC - how much do you have to commit to a bumble bee's life or whatever - if you think there's something there to learn. Now if you're just doing it for fun then there wouldn't be much interest. Everything must have a potential for growth. So there would have to be a reason. Maybe the reason would be to be with somebody else or whatever. It's hard to say because its not impossible. Almost nothing is impossible. When you live in a statistical probabilistic reality it's hard to say that anything is impossible. You can only say things are unlikely.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJI68YgN ... =endscreen

well played ; - )

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Sabby, I am not certain how helpful it is to redefine addiction with positive connotations. An addiction is something that takes control over you, overrides your reasoning and desires, and steers you on its own course, irrespective of what is best for you as a whole person. This indicates a lack of inner organization and a lack of power: in short, high entropy.



This is absolutely accurate. It is a lack of power and imagination, weak will. This is not to blame addicts, as often their environment has never afforded them a way to think outside the box of their addiction. However, with 12 step programs and lower cost psychological and addictions counseling, our society is gradually starting to create these affordances, thus increasing the likelihood of people getting and staying sober. We are in this together, society should be a support mechanism for positive living, not a vehicle for one-upmanship.




I am imagining QOC entropy to be a sort of gestalt--an organized whole that is perceived as more than the sum of its parts--rather than a single variable. All decisions in all domains in all incarnations contribute to QOC entropy. Therefore it is inseparable from all of those variables.


That our FWAU is given a FWAU that contains the capacity for enlarging decision-space should be considered with fear and trembling...much of the horror of our world is attributable to this, as these FWAUs truly were not ready for this responsibility. What is reassuring is that this world and its suffering is impermanent.

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Everything is simpler than we can imagine, at the same time more complex and intertwined than can be comprehended--Goethe, Maxims & Reflections

S.Lareck, i know not everybody sees something positive in the (metaphor) word of addiction. If a clear positive mind, takes control over my negative reasoning's and desires, and leads me on a course of which my life becomes manageable. I see that as a very positive thing, enough so i would call it a positive addiction, that i can live with. As always find ways of describing your on going experiences in PMR, that suits you. Ever how either of us look at it, we should be able to agree that it is a very good thing, to have a clear mind and a manageable life, and with having good clean fun as the side-effects. Sabby

"Positive living" and smoking pot are NOT mutually exclusive and to think they are is small minded.
Love
Bette

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

I came to my own understanding of this quote today. I have been learning to play the keyboard on my own for the last 8 years or so. I don't really write my composition, but try to play already created musical pieces.



When I listen to a beautiful song, and listen to it many many times afterwards, I fall in love with the flow, the melodies, the pauses, the quirks of the various recordings, the lyrics. The music moves me deeply, touches me...



When I sit to learn a song on the keyboard, I break it into constituent components, I am listening for what keys to strike--for someone who knows chords and progressions, etc., this is even more deconstructive. I am looking for hand placement, and pauses, again, but this time where I will insert the pauses. The pressure of the keys on a particular note. This part coming up is difficult to play. The song plays itself in my head repeatedly. It becomes a mechanism, and I the mechanic. It loses its beauty, I hear it so many times and I am concentrating so hard on getting it right, that it becomes a series of notes, not a whole thing of beauty. But..



Once I learn to play the song at peace, it again becomes a thing of beauty, and I have a renewed love for the song: my own version, and the original.

This happens not exactly because the song has been intellectually deconstructed and analyzed...otherwise one would love the frog after one has dissected it. Rather it is because I have spent time understanding and looking at it...mixing it with me. It is loved once again, with a different eye, because it has been mixed with my soul.



*********

Perhaps one could say "Before I had studied MBT for thirty years, I saw mountains as mountains, and waters as waters. When I arrived at a more intimate knowledge, I came to the point where I saw that mountains are probabilistic and virtually rendered simulations, and waters are probabilistic virtually rendered simulation. But now that I have got its very substance I am at rest. For it's just that I see mountains again as mountains, and waters once again as waters.

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Everything is simpler than we can imagine, at the same time more complex and intertwined than can be comprehended--Goethe, Maxims & Reflections

another way to describe it may be like a mechanical engineer's experience of Disney World, initially as a child, later as a trained engineer, later visiting with his grandchildren.

initially as a child, one experiences Disney World as it was intended...indulgences, thrills, entertainments

as an adult, the engineer is fascinated by the technology behind everything, he tries to sneek peeks when operational doors are swinging closed, he is very interested in figuring out the plumbing of the system and reading about the history and finances of the enterprise, which somewhat undermines with the intention of Disney World's creators.

as a grandfather visiting with his grandchildren, he realises that the entire superstructure is merely an environment for intense interaction, not only with his family, but as well with staff and other visitors, teaching the children wisdom and such things as patience when waiting in line and politeness, and he is able to set aside his mechanical curiosity and enjoy the rides like a child again, and experience amazement that such a place exists.

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