I thank you both for your succinct answers.

@Lena: Your post worries me a little. At the beginning i thought this was gonna be relatively easy. Just find the foods that contain no sugar and switch to a diet made up of them. After your post i think it's more complicated than that. Tough as it is i have come to realize that sugar cannot be eliminated 100%, just very heavily restricted to the point that it as good as eliminated as far as your organism is concerned. Carbohydrates is a necessity of life as they provide our energy so one has to find the right kind of carbs to eat, am i getting close in my understanding? I am going to switch to whole wheat, bread and generally whole wheat everything. I will start with my breakfast which is the most important meal of the day and eat Quaker oatmeal nuggets with milk(i will try to find soy milk, does it taste funny?) and maybe some fruits dropped into the milk.

I will have to figure out what is allowed in terms of meat though. I need a steady source of protein now and since i don't eat fish i will have to find the right kinds of meat to eat. Do you have any general recommendations? Thanks in advance for taking the time to help me Lena.

@Ted: Your approach is quite natural and subsequently finds me in resonance. A drawback is that such a process takes time. Also will my organism respond as it should and give me the proper feedback or will my long formed habits reject the right foods because of unfamiliarity?

How should one feel after having eaten the proper meal? How will i know that what i ate was right?

Now since i decided to drastically change my diet besides the long term advice i am going to need a short term plan to start with.

I am coming up with my own kind of diet, but i need some kind of model to use as a basis. Is this diet a good one to use like that? http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/sugarbusters/a/sugarbustrlists.htm

Sorry guys for the million questions but i really need to figure this out. I am STARVING!

High Entropy - I have been on a "no sugar" diet for a year and a half now. The diet that Tom describes to increase your clarity of consciousness allows fruit in moderation but NO refined sugar, honey, guava, etc. at all. Also no caffeine, alcohol, or chemicals. That means pretty much no processed food because they all have chemicals in them. The best thing you can do is read labels, although it can be a waste of time for many products. There just aren't any sugar free, chemical free products in many categories. I have found some things in the organic section of the grocery store, but again you have to be an avid label reader. I have paid a high price for a sugar, chemical free spaghetti sauce that way.

I did find a pure stevia powder at the health food store because most of them have some kind of additive. But it was $10 for a small container. It is very concentrated so you only use a little. I use it in my organic non-fat plain yogurt with a little fruit. I think you will find that most soy and almond milk have sugar added. Even half and half has sugar or chemicals added unless you buy organic. Even the whole wheat bread you are talking about has sugar added. There is a sprouted bread in the freezer section of many stores called Ezekiel that doesn't.

As for protein - I have been mostly a vegetarian for over 30 years. I do eat a little fish occasionally. Other than that I have a soy protein shake in the morning with some celery sticks with peanut butter in them. I do eat eggs a few times a week. Other than that - nuts, fresh vegetables and fruits.

I do eat a few medjool dates every day. It gives me something sweet and doesn't seem to affect me negatively in any way.

It takes a good 4-6 months before you see a difference. But in the end it does make a big change. One day my head was perfectly clear for a few hours. The feeling came and went for the next month until it was that way all the time. You will find that once your system adjusts your body will tell you very quickly what it doesn't like. I have given up a lot of favorite foods that way. Usually with me it is a blinding headache.

Try this thread for some interesting posts. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4913&hilit=diet

Also I have found that even within this range of foods there are some things that don't agree with me. My ultimate test is digestion and how my breath is in the morning. When my system is balanced I don't have a bad taste in my mouth when I wake up. If I do then I go over what I ate the day before.

While it seems overwhelming at first, after a while you can't imagine why you ever ate the other way and it becomes gross to see what some people are eating without thinking about it. Also all my blood work and health improved markedly.

HE,

All yeast bread has some sugar added to it. Sourdough bread may be free of sugar, but I would say, that I am sure of that, only if I backed it myself. To prolong bread's shelf life, some chemicals inevitably would be added to it too. Start backing your own bread or unlearn to eat it at all.

Organic food doesn't guarantee a consumer, that it is sugar free, not overloaded with salt and has no corn syrup.

Lena

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

Sainbury and Lena

I have a friend who owns a bread making machine. You pour in the flour and the seeds and in a few hours you have your own bread. I live in Greece and here people have a very low demand on healthy foods. I cannot find anything in the supermarket that can agree with what i am doing.

The last few days have been a chase. Right when i think i did not consume sugar that day i will find through research that i was mistaken. The elimination process is brutal and i am starting to see that if i really want to do this i will have to start cooking my own food and baking my own bread. Really just as i write these lines food is ready, It is Spaghetti........(enough said) with fresh tomato, onion and tuna for a sauce. I don't eat tuna but tonight i will have to try.

About the bread(I cannot LIVE without bread) i would like to know if there's anyone here that bakes their own bread here also. Are there any good recipes around that might produce some good no sugar bread for me?

Sainbury, is there a place where i might get educated about what to avoid when checking labels? Even when i look at labels i don't know what's good and what's bad. For example there are many names for sugar out there and if one doesn't know he could easily be on sugar and thinking that he isn't. I don't want any surprises like that. How did you learn the distinguishing process?

Also i read what stevia is on wikipedia and it sounds great but is it safe? I hope i can find some here because it says it grows on tropical climates.

About meat now, i do realize the moral reason of eliminating meat from one's diet, but in terms of keeping true to the no sugar diet is meat an obstruction?




Besides meditation, what else does that clear state of mind help you do? Do you have better memory? Better processing capabilities? Can you do more complex math? Is your awareness better? Are your senses in general enhanced by the clarity of your head?

How did your friends take it when you first told them that you would quit sugar? Did they look at you like you were an alien? What justification did you give them(Or did you tell them the truth?). Lately my friends are telling that i am getting very weird. I guess i am.

Any different than them is seen as mentally ill. Make sure no one can put you away but stay true to your self. We are all weird if we are interesting, normal is boring. By the way I never answered about my diet as I had an orange soda in my hand as I read the question. I also still eat dead animals but am working on not although as you know it's not easy when "normal" is meat eating.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Beet sugar, brown sugar, buttered syrup, cane-juice crystals, cane sugar, caramel, carob syrup, corn syrup, date sugar, dextran, dextrose, diatase, diastatic malt, ethyl maltol, fructose, fruit juice, fruit juice concentrate, glucose, glucose solids, golden sugar, golden syrup, grape sugar, high-fructose corn syrup, honey, invert sugar, lactose, malt syrup, maltodextrin, maltose, mannitol, molasses, raw sugar, refiner's syrup, sorbitol, sorghum syrup, sucrose, sugar, turbinado sugar, yellow sugar.

I think my friends already thought I was pretty weird because I have been mostly a vegetarian for so long and also into metaphysics. Last Thanksgiving I was invited to a friend's house for dinner. While everyone else was piling up their plates with turkey, gravy, mashed potatoes, rolls etc., my friend brought me a plate with a small piece of grilled fish and some steamed veggies. That was perfect for me and I wasn't stuffed and groaning afterwards. I too LOVE bread. But I have a slow metabolism so I stay away from it except once a month. Once a month I go out to dinner with a friend and eat bread dipped in olive oil. Yes, you pretty much have to cook your own food. In my case I rarely cook as I eat most things raw or very lightly steamed. But we may have a lot better variety of foods here than you do.

Stevia is an herb and you can grow it. I've just found it easier to get from the health food store. It is safe and doesn't bother me. No meat isn't an obstruction to a no sugar diet unless you are putting sauces on the meat that contain sugar.

As far as the clarity of consciousness goes - I think that depends upon your level of entropy. I pick things up in weird ways. There is some information in the data streams that is tangible to me. For instance I can literally feel where a parking space is without trying to think of one ahead of time. I pick up other things out of the VR data stream, but not necessarily in a consistent way. Meditating is much easier to. It may be hard for me to think of a before and after because this is my "normal" now.

Yes, it's brutal for me too, in the US.

For example my new job makes me sweat profusely so per my old habit I gabbed some Gatorade and started chugging. Then I remembered that sugar is used in such products - !4 grams for 64 oz bottle.

I am very diligent about keeping 2 kinds of Stevia on hand at all times. I use the granulate powder on a hot breakfast cereal and have a couple of baking recipes that I substitute Stevia for, so I can satisfy my sweet cravings. I'm far from sugar free, but it this job holds together I will be able to make some more serious progress.

RBM,

You should perhaps reconsider the question of what you drink for doing heavy work in heat and sweating. The concept of GatorAde as I remember is that it is intended to offset the electrolyte loss with perspiration. It has its value in maintaining the level of needed electrolytes which maintains a proper balance of them within your body and maintains strength thereby. I did not use it myself or remember after long time what the sweetener is but it is minimal to maintain palatability as I understood it. You either need to do something else to maintain electrolyte balance or capitulate to this small sugar usage which I would understand to be minimal and used up in the process of the exercise resulting in the sweating. Don't risk heat damage as opposed to a little bit of sugar. Think this through carefully. Can you perhaps make your own equivalent? When you need the electrolytes, my understanding is that your taste perception alters and it tastes fine as there is not really much mineral content. There is also the option of taking "salt tablets" as we used to provide our mechanics in hot weather. They should be checked for equivalence as again, it is many decades in the past and are they truly equivalent? You need the proper electrolyte balance, not just sodium chloride. Don't however risk injury to avoid a little sugar.

Ted

http://www.4us2be.com/health-fitness/ma ... -gatorade/

Homemade Gatorade-like drinks

Lena

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

HE,

If you'll decide to invest in a bread machine, please consider, that it makes bread with a yast dough. Yeast always must have sugar to be active. if you consider to make a sourdough bread, you have to make a stater first, and it is not very difficult, but it takes time to develop a good starter. You have to have a well calibrated oven to bake a good bread too. I would research your area backeries, to see, if they have a sourdough bread. In US this kind of bread is made with a white flour. I was buying a rye bread at Aldi, and it was a good and not expensive. Aldi doesn't care it anymore, and at my supermarket this bread is four something for a small loaf.

Lena

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

@Lena: I don't yet know the specifics in the bread making process. I guess i should learn before i buy the machine(maybe it will help making a better choice too.) What's the difference between sourdough bread and the regular one?

I was going to use biological flour (about 0,4 grams of sugar in 100 grams) and many many seeds inside my bread just like my friend makes it(By the way his machine also bakes the bread, you pour in the materials and 4ish hours later you get the bread. Mine will too). It should come out as a black, whole grain bread with lots of healthy seeds in it. I did check the Ezekiel bread though and they claim it has no sugar in it? I still haven't understood if no sugar means no sugar at all.

Tonight i had tomato soup (with barley inside). The tomato sauce was from the can. My mother says it is sun-dried tomatoes with no sugar, but the product clearly is sweet, so is it good sugar? I don't know.

What about the natural sugars contained within natural foods like legumes that contain minimum sugar. There are no foods that do not contain even a little tiny increment of sugar(Well there are but most don’t). What is allowed and what isn’t? For example Lentils contain SOME sugar in them, fruits contain even more, bread has some sugar in it, so does Milk. How much is allowed to take in? If fruit has some sugar in it which is bound with the fruit and is ok isn’t that the same with Legumes or vegetables? Is something that contains 1gramm of sugar out of 100 grams going to create a problem if I consume in small quantities? 2/100? How much is too much(always talking about natural sugars contained within natural foods). Sugar is energy and our bodies need it. How can one ensure that they get the proper amount of glucose from his meals without excess sugars? How can you decide if something is ok to eat if you aren’t a very sensitive observer to the after-effects of various foods?

By the way i am eating 2-3 fruit salads per day. Different fruits on the plate. Am i overdoing it? Oh and about cooked rice(as in rice soup) how much can i eat?

I am starting to get a tad paranoid about sugar in foods. I know that sugar ain't healthy but what is happening to me ain't healthy either. If no sugar means NO SUGAR then this is close to impossible at the moment. If however there is a minimum of natural sugars(like fruit) that is ok to consume within the day i'd be delighted to know what it is. If you take the no sugar statement to the extreme then you pretty much eliminate whatever grows from earth since they all contain sugars ranging from lots to infinitesimal inconsequential amounts of Sugar(amounts ranging from 0.1 to 0.5 grams).

I need to be able to operate like a human nutrition calculator so i can stop busting your guys chops with my questions everyday. How do you guys decide whether something is ok to eat or not(besides eating it)? For the moment i don't get any bad reactions from the foods i eat, no headaches either so either i am doing something right or my body hasn't started ridding of sugar and since i replenish it in small quantities everyday(it's less than a gram but let's say a gram just to be on the safe side) maybe it stilll thinks i am ON sugar.



100 grams equals...

(1/5 pound or 3.5 ounces)
1 stick of butter, or a little less than half a cup
half a medium sized apple
two fried eggs
one medium sized banana
3/4 cup of all purpose flour
1/2 cup of cooked rice
5 slices of commercial white bread
half of a medium sized baked potato
1/4 pound of t-bone steak
50 teaspoons of dried oregano
1/4 pound of tuna steak
1 medium sized tomato
1/3 of a 16oz can of beer (or soft drink)
1/2 a cup of cooked ground beef , 25 grams per ounce to make a 1/4 pound.

@ Ted

Thanks for the input. I don't fine myself needing an electrolyte charge often, so I use that product sparingly. I have also used salt tablet provided by employers in the past as you spoke of. I might even have some around. I will have to see if I stumble over them as I don't know off hand where they are.

But Lena has a solution ...

@Lena

Thanks Lena, I've got that bookmarked.

Guess I'll have to dig out my distiller I've not used since the late '90's and find some table space to set it up so I can start on one of those recipes.

High Entropy - you are making this too hard. Your brain does need some sugar to function. The sugar in fruits and vegetables are OK. The only time you might have to watch the high sugar fruits is if you were diabetic. The sugar you need to stay away from is in anything packaged - also the chemicals in packaged food. Eating fruit is fine as long as you aren't eating an entire bunch of bananas a day. I eat quite a lot of fruit every day myself.

So eat all the fresh fruits and veggies your heart desires. Just watch what is in salad dressing etc. I don't know how it is there but in the U.S. food manufacturers have to label all ingredients in the container. The ingredient contained in the biggest quantity is listed first and so on. So it is easy to see if there is sugar or chemicals. If your country doesn't do that then your safest thing is to eat fresh fruits and veggies as much as you can.

I've been reading lately about how more than 25 grams of fructose per day is not good because its apparently causing us inflammation. Raspberries are low in fructose, but apples are higher than oranges and bananas. Just one more thing to think about High Entropy, but really I have to agree with Sainbury... You might be going at it a little too hard. Mostly you want to look at how quickly a substance breaks down into sugars in your system. It's a little different for everyone, but the glycemic index and glycemic load can tell you a lot about how quickly the sugars will affect you. The thing about actual refined sugar is it breaks down almost immediately as does white bread...really any bread breaks down pretty fast but Ezekiel Bread is about a 45 on the GI.

_________________
"All the world's a Stage and all the men and women merely players, They have their exits and their entrances and ONE man in his time plays many parts, his acts beings Heaven ages"---Shakespeare

146 Reasons Why Sugar Is Ruining Your Health

By Nancy Appleton, Ph.D.





1. Sugar can suppress the immune system.

2. Sugar upsets the mineral relationships in the body.

3. Sugar can cause hyperactivity, anxiety, difficulty concentrating, and crankiness in children.

4. Sugar can produce a significant rise in triglycerides.

5. Sugar contributes to the reduction in defense against bacterial infection (infectious diseases).

6. Sugar causes a loss of tissue elasticity and function, the more sugar you eat the more elasticity and function you loose.

7. Sugar reduces high density lipoproteins.

8. Sugar leads to chromium deficiency.

9 Sugar leads to cancer of the ovaries.

10. Sugar can increase fasting levels of glucose.

11. Sugar causes copper deficiency.

12. Sugar interferes with absorption of calcium and magnesium.

13. Sugar can weaken eyesight.

14. Sugar raises the level of a neurotransmitters: dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine.

15. Sugar can cause hypoglycemia.

16. Sugar can produce an acidic digestive tract.

17. Sugar can cause a rapid rise of adrenaline levels in children.

18. Sugar malabsorption is frequent in patients with functional bowel disease.

19. Sugar can cause premature aging.

20. Sugar can lead to alcoholism.

21. Sugar can cause tooth decay.

22. Sugar contributes to obesity

23. High intake of sugar increases the risk of Crohn's disease, and ulcerative colitis.

24. Sugar can cause changes frequently found in person with gastric or duodenal ulcers.

25. Sugar can cause arthritis.

26. Sugar can cause asthma.

27. Sugar greatly assists the uncontrolled growth of Candida Albicans (yeast infections).

28. Sugar can cause gallstones.

29. Sugar can cause heart disease.

30. Sugar can cause appendicitis.

31. Sugar can cause multiple sclerosis.

32. Sugar can cause hemorrhoids.

33. Sugar can cause varicose veins.

34. Sugar can elevate glucose and insulin responses in oral contraceptive users.

35. Sugar can lead to periodontal disease.

36. Sugar can contribute to osteoporosis.

37. Sugar contributes to saliva acidity.

38. Sugar can cause a decrease in insulin sensitivity.

39. Sugar can lower the amount of Vitamin E (alpha-Tocopherol in the blood.

40. Sugar can decrease growth hormone.

41. Sugar can increase cholesterol.

42. Sugar can increase the systolic blood pressure.

43. Sugar can cause drowsiness and decreased activity in children.

44. High sugar intake increases advanced glycation end products (AGEs)(Sugar bound non-enzymatically to protein)

45. Sugar can interfere with the absorption of protein.

46. Sugar causes food allergies.

47. Sugar can contribute to diabetes.

48. Sugar can cause toxemia during pregnancy.

49. Sugar can contribute to eczema in children.

50. Sugar can cause cardiovascular disease.

51. Sugar can impair the structure of DNA

52. Sugar can change the structure of protein.

53. Sugar can make our skin age by changing the structure of collagen.

54. Sugar can cause cataracts.

55. Sugar can cause emphysema.

56. Sugar can cause atherosclerosis.

57. Sugar can promote an elevation of low density lipoproteins (LDL).

58. High sugar intake can impair the physiological homeostasis of many systems in the body.

59. Sugar lowers the enzymes ability to function.

60. Sugar intake is higher in people with Parkinson’s disease.

61. Sugar can cause a permanent altering the way the proteins act in the body.

62. Sugar can increase the size of the liver by making the liver cells divide.

63. Sugar can increase the amount of liver fat.

64. Sugar can increase kidney size and produce pathological changes in the kidney.

65. Sugar can damage the pancreas.

66. Sugar can increase the body's fluid retention.

67. Sugar is enemy #1 of the bowel movement.

68. Sugar can cause myopia (nearsightedness).

69. Sugar can compromise the lining of the capillaries.

70. Sugar can make the tendons more brittle.

71. Sugar can cause headaches, including migraine.

72. Sugar plays a role in pancreatic cancer in women.

73. Sugar can adversely affect school children's grades and cause learning disorders..

74. Sugar can cause an increase in delta, alpha, and theta brain waves.

75. Sugar can cause depression.

76. Sugar increases the risk of gastric cancer.

77. Sugar and cause dyspepsia (indigestion).

78. Sugar can increase your risk of getting gout.

79. Sugar can increase the levels of glucose in an oral glucose tolerance test over the ingestion of complex carbohydrates.

80. Sugar can increase the insulin responses in humans consuming high-sugar diets compared to low sugar diets.

81 High refined sugar diet reduces learning capacity.

82. Sugar can cause less effective functioning of two blood proteins, albumin, and lipoproteins, which may reduce the body’s ability to handle fat and cholesterol.

83. Sugar can contribute to Alzheimer’s disease.

84. Sugar can cause platelet adhesiveness.

85. Sugar can cause hormonal imbalance; some hormones become underactive and others become overactive.

86. Sugar can lead to the formation of kidney stones.

87. Sugar can lead to the hypothalamus to become highly sensitive to a large variety of stimuli.

88. Sugar can lead to dizziness.

89. Diets high in sugar can cause free radicals and oxidative stress.

90. High sucrose diets of subjects with peripheral vascular disease significantly increases platelet adhesion.

91. High sugar diet can lead to biliary tract cancer.

92. Sugar feeds cancer.

93. High sugar consumption of pregnant adolescents is associated with a twofold increased risk for delivering a small-for-gestational-age (SGA) infant.

94. High sugar consumption can lead to substantial decrease in gestation duration among adolescents.

95. Sugar slows food's travel time through the gastrointestinal tract.

96. Sugar increases the concentration of bile acids in stools and bacterial enzymes in the colon. This can modify bile to produce cancer-causing compounds and colon cancer.

97. Sugar increases estradiol (the most potent form of naturally occurring estrogen) in men.

98. Sugar combines and destroys phosphatase, an enzyme, which makes the process of digestion more difficult.

99. Sugar can be a risk factor of gallbladder cancer.

100. Sugar is an addictive substance.

101. Sugar can be intoxicating, similar to alcohol.

102. Sugar can exacerbate PMS.

103. Sugar given to premature babies can affect the amount of carbon dioxide they produce.

104. Decrease in sugar intake can increase emotional stability.

105. The body changes sugar into 2 to 5 times more fat in the bloodstream than it does starch.

106. The rapid absorption of sugar promotes excessive food intake in obese subjects.

107. Sugar can worsen the symptoms of children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).

108. Sugar adversely affects urinary electrolyte composition.

109. Sugar can slow down the ability of the adrenal glands to function.

110. Sugar has the potential of inducing abnormal metabolic processes in a normal healthy individual and to promote chronic degenerative diseases.

111.. I.Vs (intravenous feedings) of sugar water can cut off oxygen to the brain.

112. High sucrose intake could be an important risk factor in lung cancer.

113. Sugar increases the risk of polio.

114. High sugar intake can cause epileptic seizures.

115. Sugar causes high blood pressure in obese people.

116. In Intensive Care Units, limiting sugar saves lives.

117. Sugar may induce cell death.

118. Sugar can increase the amount of food that you eat.

119. In juvenile rehabilitation camps, when children were put on a low sugar diet, there was a 44% drop in antisocial behavior.

120. Sugar can lead to prostrate cancer.

121. Sugar dehydrates newborns.

122. Sugar increases the estradiol in young men.

123. Sugar can cause low birth weight babies.

124. Greater consumption of refined sugar is associated with a worse outcome of schizophrenia

125. Sugar can raise homocysteine levels in the blood stream.

126. Sweet food items increase the risk of breast cancer.

127. Sugar is a risk factor in cancer of the small intestine.

128. Sugar may cause laryngeal cancer.

129. Sugar induces salt and water retention.

130. Sugar may contribute to mild memory loss.

131. As sugar increases in the diet of 10 years olds, there is a linear decrease in the intake of many essential nutrients.

132. Sugar can increase the total amount of food consumed.

133. Exposing a newborn to sugar results in a heightened preference for sucrose relative to water at 6 months and 2 years of age.

134. Sugar causes constipation.

135. Sugar causes varicous veins.

136. Sugar can cause brain decay in prediabetic and diabetic women.

137. Sugar can increase the risk of stomach cancer.

138. Sugar can cause metabolic syndrome.

139. Sugar ingestion by pregnant women increases neural tube defects in embryos.

140. Sugar can be a factor in asthma.

141. The higher the sugar consumption the more chances of getting irritable bowel syndrome.

142. Sugar could affect central reward systems.

143. Sugar can cause cancer of the rectum.

144. Sugar can cause endometrial cancer.

145. Sugar can cause renal (kidney) cell carcinoma.

146. Sugar can cause liver tumors.