I was wondering if anyone (thomas campbell?) would like to discuss the information on this website http://www.ecsys.org
Im looking for viewpoints from other people's perspectives, ive explored it a bit and am now in the process of really starting to take it as a serious possibility and to start subjectively exploring it to a much greater extent.

EDIT: almost forgot at the time that the author requested a while back people point back to the actual thread discussing ecsys so as to prevent misconstruing of information from original content

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message872590/pg1

And a really fascinating summary with quotes not from ecsys.org but from the above without having to wade through it!:
http://catcarelecsys.tumblr.com/

Starry,

To quote from their web site:My children learned the Engilsh alphabet at 2 years old or less. It did not take them years but rather a month or two. "Clarify your intelligence"? I have some stock ownership for the Bank of the Saint Johns River that I will sell you cheap if that is the level you wish to work at.

I see nothing wrong with some of the things that they say. Another quote from their site:My 5th grade math teacher was OK as a math teacher but he told the class about his belief in the hollow earth where we came from. When I was in college, he was removed as a teacher for his sexual displays in the children's bathroom in front of the children. I am afraid that quotations like this one are indelibly linked in my mind to that quality of mind set. I am prejudiced, I admit. Having some superficial similarities to Tom's models of reality does not give them a pass in my mind to all the rest of it.

Ted

I believe that 'using the english alphabet' refers to learning the language fluently. Im sure some children do so at 2 years or less, but in actuality most don't mature with their usage , with all the subtleties, till an older age.
Clarify your intelligence refers to clarifying how perceptions are linked together. I.e. how associations work in your mind.



Beliefs and perceptions are quite different. The difference is depth. I believe in terms of tom's model of reality, this would refer to the difference between 'believing' and 'knowing.'
Of course, a belief is also a perception but how deep is it, and how logical is it to everything else in the perspective (including the current culture). This would be related to the psi principle i believe.

So they do not use words very precisely or clearly on that web site then. To say alphabet when and if you mean language is pretty sloppy by reasonable standards. That would fit right in with what they have to show.

I take it from your comments that you are not really asking for opinions but already espousing and defending this web site and what they have to say there. Is that your purpose in posting here, to increase traffic at that site? I see no connection to the Psi Uncertainty Principle to be involved and only a superficial similarity to some concepts from MBT relating to a virtual reality. Have you read Tom's model as detailed on the Wiki? http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/index.php/Th ... _Link_Page

Ted

You trying to keep this forum as some kind of private jewelry locked up in your jewelry box, Ted? That website has interesting information with similar views as here. The oddities are intriguing and should not be disregarded at first sight like that. They are not competitors for christs sake. Imagine they had a forum with a similar forum administrator at that site or other metaphysics sites and you or someone dropped by to share MBT's view.. NOPE. They obviously aren't interested in outsiders. Where does that lead? In a little group petting each other. It perplexes me that you show this kind of fiendish attitude. STILL, after years. Do not spend your time and energy cooking up a clever answer where you justify your behavior, I just want to give feedback, not start a fight. Your energy and time is well spent on other things. (You do have many, many excellent posts in addition to some territorial, inconstructive ones like in this thread.) Of course I would hope to have just a tiny bit of impact, being a big fan of MBT, but you have showed how stubborn and defiant you react on anything other than MBT and your own views. It really perplexes me. Can't Special Sapienta or someone (there are plenty, but for some reason they leave?) with a bit more relaxed attitude towards strangers and strange elements, yet with very good knowledge of MBT, be given more authority, somehow? Moji is non-existent. Does Tom even pay attention to his watchdog? I'd give it a spanking. I'd never do that. A dogmask, maybe, sometimes. Can't you just behave properly? Like it's modeled in the model you're safekeeping. Not sure I am fully right here, maybe you should also ask yourself sometimes if you are hundred procent sure you are correct in your views and judgements.

I was hoping for opinions and a give and take of opinions, in which one person states how he interprets it and the other person shares his opinions, and the other person responds and sees if his opinions have changed. If noone is convinced, or someone just wants to state his opinions and leave it at that, no big deal. Insights have been gained, and everything is a potential source for creativity, in my opinion.

Personally, i have given it consideration and it bears reasonable resemblance to other things i have read that i have now taken it seriously. The next step to determining how real it is is becoming 'fluent' in the ec language, for which i have created some exercises and see what happens. Cause it sort of seems weird that something so simple could do what is claimed, though now im less doubtful now that i've pondered the material. This will really be my first subjective experimenting, fun!



Actually, the word is used quite precisely. It means exactly what it says - ec is a more subjective language, and the ec characters are like cookie cutters which supposedly allows oneself to interpret one's perceptions. Thus, when you learn how to 'use' the alphabet, you are learning how one's perceptions can be interpreted in terms of the ec characters.

And yes, and from the authors posts (who appeared in another forum) , it is clear that the knowledge is being fed drip style. The purpose being to inspire people to do more than read. And when people do more than read, he would drop by with more insight/knowledge.


No, I was hoping for integration of knowledge/insights. I admit, I was really hoping someone would have access to non-earth consciousnesses who could comment on the material (i know weird), or if anyone had some insights. And yes, I was hoping some people would have their interests piqued as it would be cool to have more people exploring it. I figured people from my big toe would be interested in different variations of 'the big picture.'



Nope, just scanned it. I got the books but haven't yet finished book one.


The psi uncertainty principle basically states that there are rules in each reality and that the rules cant be broken, but in order to allow paranormal/spiritual development, uncertainty/paranormal activity is allowed , but not in a way that the rules of the reality can be broken (atleast to other people who don't believe in paranormal).

In the ec perspective this is translated as 'what will happen is what is most logical to everything in your perspective (including your unconscious perception)'. So, in order to experience paranormal, you would have to make it more relevant to your perspective, via ec language and the genius.

@k0liver

Behaving is NOT a point.

Attitude towards strangers also is not.
It is his assessment.
... as the admin of this board - AND its purpose ...

It is also mine - would I have found the words to express it, it would be here already.

The concerns raised are valid - to me.

What is promoted there might be worthy of discussion - to me it is disorganised esotheric stuff with no conclusive logic behind it.

There are valid questions adressed - but the answers given are just jumping to unjustified conclusions.

... its possible, interesting, even intriguing ...

The model there is - as far as I perceive - based in the primate of a physical reality.

Which is just distracting the attention away from a BIG TOE towards a smaller one.

A discussion of the "model" (or any other like it) could be more than just "fun"?

"Law of attraction" is real as many would concur - it is the way to explain how and why it works which makes a difference.

As an INFJ, I am never absolutely sure about anything. So far, my intuitions have been right. When something does not add up, I start to probe. When I do not receive forthright answers, I probe further. Typically I find out such things as that the physics expert was just a junior college student, not even studying physics, who was a great follower of a particular physicist whose viewpoints he claimed without really understanding them and no credentials for his opinions. If Tom wants other administrators, I am sure that he will set them up.

Have you actually read around on that web site? Do you not recognize typical New Age twaddle when you see it? When someone new comes on the board, immediately advocating a site, that typically turns out to be the reason that they are here. Not to learn more about Tom Campbell's work and deeper understanding of MBT. That is the purpose of this board. Not being a typical part of a New Age movement. In the process we accommodate the interests of those who are seriously interested with tolerance. Newcomers have the burden of proof as to their purpose here if there is reason to question it. Avoidance and obfuscation is counter productive for clarifying that purpose. In this case, I see that there is reason for such questioning.

I take it from Starry3's comments that this alphabet is claimed to be something of the character of ideograms as in the Chinese language and thus to be a language. However that would only make sense if there were many of them as in the Chinese language. Otherwise there are just not many thoughts that can be stated as having only less than 10 ideograms. They must actually be used as an alphabet and used in sequences to build up meanings. Thus we are back to my comments about using alphabet to refer to a language as not making sense.

Actually we are seeming to get a discussion of that web site and its ideas. More con than pro, but I am not surprised. I simply do not see a great deal to recommend it. If I had something absolutely negative against the site, I would have simply pulled the plug. I do not expect anyone to change their opinion on my say so. But I do intend that this bulletin board not just descend into a chat room on any and every subject. That way lies destruction of the board and its value. Tom considers it to have great value and I will not allow that to be destroyed.

Ted

+1 ;)

Ive read many material on mysticism lately. I started from studying artificial intelligence and then being led to the new age 'ask and it is given.' Then i've found my way to hypnosis and then the books 'seth speaks.' Finally, I found 'my big toe' through some discussion in the other forum. They all have an underlying theme and i see absolutely nothing wrong with new age stuff, just maybe the way it is presented (though the book aforementioned presents it perfectly and thats the only book ever needed on that stuff).

So yes, i see new age ideas even in my big toe. I see it much more prominently in the ecsys website, in the form of the genius. But i also see ideas around it which expand on it and point the way toward a more thorough understanding of the new age 'law of attraction' - in the form of perception, and how to shift it.



Not exactly - in chinese each character corresponds to an idea, just like a string of symbols (word) in the english language correspond to an idea. In the ec language, each character represents a primitive association. When you have a conversation, the ideas flow via association. Therefore, when you concatenate together ec characters, it is supposed to build up a perception guided by the primitive associations which have been combined together. Given a string of ec characters, it could have a different effect on your 'thought process' based on the context - they are not unique. They are like keys, each key which can open many doors. The claim on the website is that anything can basically be represented as one of the four sides (logic, possibility, symbol, interactions) and therefore this is why the characters are based on these associations. This is unlike the english language, where each letter is really only associated to a sound not a primitive association. Only a word is associated to a concept. And english letters cant be combined in any random order either. Ec characters can be, and thus there is 66^n or so possibilities, where n is the length of the string.

You're right if you think that sounds a little silly, it seems so to me but it also seems possible, because when i think of having never learned english before and having it claimed that these letters could form a rich language that i could think in, i would be a little suspicious. Therefore, i am open to my interpretation and am going to experiment. Ive done some, but not much. I will post later if i actually get results.

I guess theres really not much to discuss in terms of 'proof' until subjective experience is obtained. Though im sure some of you guys might find it interesting ...

Hmm, better analogy. The ec characters are like legos - you have different shapes (ec characters), and combining them, you can build countless structures.

People come here and go for different reasons. I regret, that some smart and interesting people don't post here anymore. Ted is an administrator and he does an excellent job. Forums easy become a place to chit-chat and have fun, and this is very good, but not for this forum. A lot of people never post, but read on a regular basis.

MBT is a very complex and not easy to comprehend in its entirety. Deviating from MBT to New Age is defeating this forum purpose. New Age helped a lot of people to become open minded and pushed changes on them. MBT is not New Age, but a new chapter in awareness and understanding of our reality (PMR) and what is beyond it (NPMR). There is not sweet talk and waiting for somebody to make one better.

Lena

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

... like legos ...

what are these legos made up of?

Will they hold?
They will if the individual bricks are "solid".
(quotation marks intended)

as opposed to i.e. "made up of assumptions" as in: why and how would it be that way?

... the "how" is covered ... somehow ...

It sounds like, from starry3's comments, that these 'letters' are like the components of DNA and thus long sequences can be built. These as words do not sound like a way to be more clear than other languages. Dealing with DNA sequences requires a computer after all. Can an example of a translation be provided? For instance, can the simple phrase associated with tuning a ukelele be translated from 'my dog has fleas'? This is a very simple concept in English and without significant lack of clarity. What does it look like in ec(?) if I am remembering the term correctly? If you do not know, do they provide any translated phrases or concepts that you can tell us about?

Ted

I agree, if one wants to understand more, new age isn't enough.


The legos are made up of primitive associations. Since all of perception can be one of the four sides, the primitive associations makes the associations between these 4 sides logical to our perspective.

Truthfully, the author hinted that the language was just the beginning. How do blind people sense the world? Do they use anything related to vision? This is a metaphor for how the ec language might work - its not really a language in the normal sense. Eventually, its meant to be processed parallel (like how we imagine images, or feel images, in our mind at once). Its like the atoms of perception, the end product is not meant to be linear like language is.

Thoughts are a sense like sound and vision and tasting is a sense. It is one aspect of consciousness, and by shifting focus we can do other stuff like 'think visually.' EC, i believe, is meant to be another sense, but a nonlinear one.

But how do you shift perspectives? You start with what you know in your perspective, and then you tweak it a bit. That is why, im guessing, the author starts off presenting it as such a language.

But how do you do that and become fluent in ec? Thats what im exploring, ill let you know if i get any results.



The individual bricks/ec characters are solid if they are based on how perception actually works. So your question might be asked in the following way: why can all perception be represented as one of the four 'forces' - logic, symbol, interaction, or possibilities.

I would ask - how do you know that everyone can communicate in a language made out of squigly lines (english letters?) At first glance, it wouldn't appear that such a language could be rich, if one hadn't already experienced it. The language ability is based on a remapping ability , the brain makes the language rich with many associations. So i know that to truly answer this question would require becoming fluent in the ec language.

To tell you the truth im not quite sure how all situations could be represented by a chain of such legos; i have suspicions, but to truly know requires experience. I don't think this is unreasonable, can you describe subjective experience very well in english? Does that mean subjectivitiy doesn't exist? But thats all i could really say.

On some simple examples of how perception can be represented by one of the four forces, see the common names here http://ecsys.org/The_Gods_of_Ecsys.php.