Changing our beliefs is just rearranging our prejudices. The idea is to get past beliefs to knowledge knowing that knowledge can grow with more information to process, or uncertainty.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Hmm, im not sure i like the work 'prejudice.' That has a rather negative connotation. However, if we perceive something in a certain way, is that not the same thing as being 'prejudice', without the negative connotation? Thus changing our perception is equivalent to changing our prejudices and changing our beliefs.

I guess I think of belief and knowledge in different manner. How do you define belief vs knowledge?

Beliefs are limiting so them having a negative connotation is appropriate to me. Getting out from under our beliefs, the beliefs that limit us, is the idea. Knowledge comes from open-minded skepticism allowing information in to process with what we already Know about Reality to Evolve with, and the ability to know what isn't Real after processing the information concerning it. The of course there is what has to remain uncertain because you do not have enough data yet. For me that is ET issues, some of them I am uncertain about. You zeroed in on finding a negative didn't you?
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

I tend to zero in on differences in perspective, as does everyone. I prefer not having the negative connotation because i think beliefs can be positive.

Its just different ways in which we use the term belief.

For example, i would say the following are 'beliefs', but i wouldn't say they are negative or prejudice at all. Beliefs dont have to be negative - i believe the book states that if you were in a perfect society and inherited the beliefs of the positive society, you would just be 'lucky' and wouldn't actually 'know.' So the difference between beliefs and knowledge involves experience .... And maybe knowledge is the stuff that one doesn't construct/make up in one's mind, but instead is isntinct. However, we have to make stuff up in our mind to make progress, thats our right brain working ..... And in addition, if we have these 'lucky beliefs' but have no experience, experience would gradually come our way.

Positive Beliefs:
"These inborn leanings or attitudes can roughly be translated as follows: 1. I am an excellent creature, an excellent part of the universe in which I exist. 2. My existence enriches all other portions of life, even as my own being in enhanced by the rest of creation. 3. It is good, natural, and safe for me to grow and develop and use my abilities and by doing so I also enrich all other portions of life."
Session 1/27, Page 68

"Then: I am eternally couched and supported by the universe of which I am a part, and I exist whether or not that existence is physically expressed. Then: By nature I am a good deserving creature, and all of life’s elements and parts are also of good intent. Then: All of my imperfections, and all of the imperfections of other creatures, are redeemed in the greater scheme of the universe in which I have my being."
Session 1/27, Page 68

So beliefs for me are shaded and include knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception Starry3,

According to Wiki's definition Perception belongs to PMR, i.e. to physical reality or a small picture. Most people never think about Big Picture. It doesn't stop them from advancing on their path or entropy reduction. There is one problem here. MBT is about Big Picture, where Consciousness is One. Everything is a derivative of Consciousness, perception is included. Perception is one's physical ability to interpret PMR through physical senses. Consciousness doesn't need physical senses, because Consciousness is not physical. Why to make a deliberate step back in awareness of this reality?

Beliefs are limiting, because they tie you up and hold you down in a small picture. One of the most difficult things in life is to part with one's beliefs. They make life more cosy and comfortable, but they keep one back from Big Picture. Ego is all about beliefs, and fear is behind ego would not let one part with beliefs without pain. No beliefs, what else does one have left? Facing oneself as who one is. It might hurt. The Emperor's New Clothes by Hans Christian Andersen.

Lena

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

I dont think its a step backward - we're here on this earth to perceive and interact, why not create a theory of perception? I think it would improve life quality if developed fully.

I think the perception on ecsys.org is meant mostly for physical reality, but it does mention some stuff about consciousness. Also physical reality isn't all it can be, for example in book one it says the author could perceive auras. This doesn't improve life quality, but it does imply that the brain can do more things than it lets on; maybe fully developed it would improve life quality....

Im not saying theres one answer or that ecsys is even near it. Whats right differs for each person. But im definitely saying that creating a theory of perception is not a step backward. The theory of perception does not deny a larger reality, it merely creates a model for our reality on this earth that can be utilized.

If one is humble, beliefs can be parted without much pain. And if we keep up expansive beliefs as quoted, they can also keep us comfortable while we learn from experience.

Are you sure facing oneself as we are would hurt? If someone had low self esteem, does that reflect on who they really are? By eliminating low self esteem through experience, we have a beautiful I, not a negative raw me that we have to face. The negative raw me is what the ego wants oneself to believe, in order to keep us from changing.... I mean technically i guess we probably cant handle everything at once, the 'raw me', but thats just a matter of how much we can handle at one time.... And also, whats the rush?

By accepting ourselves for who we are, and knowing that we don't know everything, we form a cushion of a belief that allows us to learn much quicker, because it allows us to try new things without fear. Spirituality grows from support, not denial ... There is no such thing as retribution ....

It appears to be a step backwards if there is a bigger, much more complete one, in which the smaller "model for our reality on this earth is included" already.

A "little picture" theory can only be developed so far ... to improve life quality until it again hits the wall ... the wall MBT overcame.

You do a nice promo for ecsys :)

I'll be really out now.

Aw shucks, thanks! I do my best :) Though i have to say i am in no way affiliated! Its also good practice for moi!



Is physics a little picture theory that isn't useful? I like that physics can be used as a tool to affect our reality and improve our life. Then the question is, can ecsys be just as useful?

I think its always useful to fill in details, because the details are interesting and are like a puzzle..... And i really like integration and how different models are connected ....

:)
Composite questions are a good tool ...
Is todays physics a little picture theory? Yes.
Is physics useful as such? Yes.
As far as it goes. Same for ecsys.
The details are interesting and useful. And are also (already) covered by MBT.

Cheers

:)
I think attracting things into our life is useful, and it would be more useful if more details were fleshed out. In that sense, i view ecsys as a tool. The ec language is meant to fill out the details: i hope everything being the 4 forces has been clarified (it has to me), but the utility of the language has yet to be verified.

ill have to come back to that, from the reactions from others i got the view that ecsys is a totally different take on some of the concepts. And that it definitely doesn't try to lead to a language of perception, which is what ecsys tries to do... I think the equivalent in MBT would be raising ones consciousness. I will have to read MBT first ....

Ooh but in terms of beliefs and experience, the following quote i think would make an interesting discussion. Taken from here http://kathypilcher.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/og-mandino-scrolls.pdf , 'the ten scrolls, from the greatest salesman in the world, by og mandino.'

I think the 'principles' would correspond to 'positive beliefs.'

"
Failure will no longer by my payment for my struggle. Just as nature made no
provision for my body to tolerate pain neither has it made any provision for my life
to suffer failure. Failure, like pain, is alien to my life. In the past I accepted it as I
accepted pain. Now I reject it and I am prepared for wisdom and principles which
will guide me out of the shadows into the sunlight of wealth, position, and happiness
far beyond my most extravagant dreams until even the golden apples in the Garden
of Hesperides will seem no more than my just reward.

Time teaches all things to he who lives forever but I have not the luxury of eternity.
Yet, within my allotted time I must practice the art of patience for nature acts never
in haste. To create the olive, king of all trees, a hundred years is required. An onion
plant is old in nine weeks. I have lived as an onion plant. It has not pleased me. Now
I wouldst become the greatest of olive trees and, in truth, the greatest of salesmen.

And how will this be accomplished? For I have neither the knowledge nor the
experience to achieve greatness and already I have stumbled in ignorance and fallen
into pools of self-pity. The answer is simple. I will commence my journey
unencumbered with either the weight of unnecessary knowledge or the handicap of
meaningless experience. Nature already has supplied me with knowledge and instinct
far greater than any beast in the forest and the value of experience is overrated,
usually by old men who nod wisely and speak stupidly.

In truth, experience teaches thoroughly yet her course of instruction devours men’s
years so the value of her lessons diminishes with the time necessary to acquire her
special wisdom. The end finds it wasted on dead men. Furthermore, experience is
comparable to fashion; an action that proved successful today will be unworkable
and impractical tomorrow.

Only principles endure and these I now possess, for the laws that will lead me to
greatness are contained in the words of these scrolls. What they will teach me is more
to prevent failure than to gain success, for what is success other than a state of mind?
Which two, among a thousand wise men, will define success in the same words; yet
failure is always described in one way. Failure is man’s in ability to reach his goals in
life, whatever they may be.
"

This is not so much about self esteem, as about know who we are. Have you listen to Jiddu Krishanamurti? He talked a lot about self image and how to find who we are beside an ego created image. If you are interested in self awareness and understanding who you really are, I would recommend to read or listen to Jiddu Krishamurti. This web site has an excellent collection of his audio/video and text documents. http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/index.php
http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamur ... 110716.php

Jiddu Krishnamurti, Truth and Actuality, 1
Jiddu Krishnamurti, Truth and Actuality, 2

Lena

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

Holy crap, i just came across him mentioned in another forum before i checked here, talking about another topic! what a coincidence!!!! :/

Haven't listened to him yet!

Here you go!

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

That was a good read, thanks!