Dear Fellows,

Is anyone else a bit familiar with Hermetic philosophy? I'm reading MBT currently, and the more I read about AUO and the explanation of our PMR being just one subset, the larger system comprehension being compared to the bacteria in our stomachs experience trying to understand our experience, etc; I personally see a lot of relation to what Hermetics philosophy appears to be trying to convey as well.

Allow me to quote a few lines from the Hermetic book written by Three Initiates, entitled _The Kybalion_:

"THE UNIVERSE AND ALL IT CONTAINS, IS A MENTAL CREATION OF THE ALL. Verily, indeed, ALL IS MIND!" -pg.37
"The Infinite Mind of THE ALL is the womb of the Universes." -pg.38
"THE ALL is Mind, the Universe is Mental, existing in the Mind of THE ALL."

Obviously there are some superficial differences in some of how the Hermetic philosophy describes the reality of the Universe(s), but I do find a very interesting similarity in the *essence/underlying* of the message being conveyed via symbols (language).

After all, "All that is, is metaphor." Can't recall who said that at this very moment, but I'm beginning to think them very wise. :)


Thoughts?

Much Love,
JWG

_________________
Believe Nothing. Explore Everything.

Not-knowing is true knowledge.
Presuming to know is a disease.
First realize that you are sick.
Then you can move toward health
-Lao Tzu

JWG,

The concept that Consciousness is the basis of all existence has never left PMR societies. It is not only centuries old, back prior to recorded history, but also world wide. It has just been moved out of the forefront and center of societal awareness by the successes of recent centuries of science and technology which consider physicality to be the basis of everything. What Tom's My Big TOE does is put these ancient concepts into terminology that is not strictly metaphor based and into terminology that is understandable from and based upon modern science and digital technology. The result is a physicists (or engineers) model of reality rather than a word picture or metaphor. It is still a model, as previous metaphorical pictures were also models, but it is a model that can be shown to have correspondences with discoveries of modern science and is much more subject to testing and making predictions testable and thus provable.

Ted

Ted,

A wonderfully worded post, and I agree on all points! You are truly very gifted in your use of symbolism to communicate. :)

Indeed, MBT does appear to be a more modern, improved and evolved remanifestation of the communicated ideas of old. As you said, this also clears the way for the future improvement and subsequent remanifesation once again. Unlike static and unchanging theories, this one has adapted with the new knowledge we have, rather than fight against it. Lack of fear and ego, you could say.

_________________
Believe Nothing. Explore Everything.

Not-knowing is true knowledge.
Presuming to know is a disease.
First realize that you are sick.
Then you can move toward health
-Lao Tzu

I have downloaded the text and am in the process of reading through it. It is interesting and I do find many similarities existing between the two philosophies. Many of these similarities are embodied in the quotes JWG included in the original post.

There are some differences too, of course. One of the things postulated as unknowable in the Kybalion is the "why" of the creation from the All. While it does state that the goal of mankind, and all beings, is to raise their "vibrations" and eventually return to the All, it gives that there is no known purpose for this as the All is perfect and unchanging to begin with and has nothing to gain from all this creative expression.

MBT gives us this reason. That's one of the many things meaningful to me from Tom's Big TOE. We grow spiritually, reducing our entropy and becoming love, and therefore, since we are part of the one consciousness, the entropy of the whole is lowered as well. That makes much more sense to me than saying that the All cannot be responding to any internal or external pressures to create because it is already perfect and complete. (This is debated in the Kybalion on pages 50-51) It may, as a whole, be far above where we currently are, but every contribution is a worthy one.

Ramon

JWG and Ramon,

The One Consciousness is a 'real' system and therefore not 'perfect'. Just as for calling a real system infinite, this is not possible, a real system cannot be perfect. You can define perfection and then you will find that a vastly large and real system has failures to meet your criteria, besides our being unable to conceive realistically of what that perfection would consist of. If a system is unchanging by way of perfection, then it is automatically unchanging by way of stagnation. Free will cannot exist within a stagnant system and Consciousness cannot exist within a system without free will. This is discussed more fully by Tom in My Big TOE.

Ted

Ramon,

I'm glad you found it interesting and worthwhile to read as well. It is certainly an interesting way of trying to describe reality. As mentioned in my OP, it is one set of metaphors to try and convey the *underlying essence/message*. Just as a "tree" is a metaphor for the Thing itself. Over the years I've become what you would call a "model agnostic", in that I view models of anything (including and especially reality) as models and not the thing of itself, while they can never 100% portray things as they are, a malleable and open one is helpful in communication. Hope that made sense. :)



Ted,

I understand, and that is what I find refreshing about MBT. As Tom intended, it is much more clear using Western terminology and concepts to convey this theory of everything. It is a good model and system to communicate, test, evolve, and work with for modern day from my experience with it thus far; and the future, and with it all of it's continued gained information, will certainly evolve it as well.

~~

Thank you both for your posts and input thus far. :)


JWG

_________________
Believe Nothing. Explore Everything.

Not-knowing is true knowledge.
Presuming to know is a disease.
First realize that you are sick.
Then you can move toward health
-Lao Tzu

My only familiarity with Hermetics comes from Franz Bardon's "Initiation into Hermetics." However, I too find that it parallels quite nicely with My Big TOE.

Hermetics is one of my favorite metaphysical metaphors, although I'm getting intrigued by Theosophy as well. I've been toying with the idea of following the ten steps from Bardon's manual, but working meditation into my daily routine is hard enough.

JWG, I share your "model agnosticism" philosophy. It's a fun way to look at the world!

_________________
I am, because I choose to am! Wait, I mean be. I AM BE!! Wait, that's not it either... ;_;

I am such a beginner, did I miss something? Is Hermetics related to Hermes in some fashion. Great thread btw.

_________________
"All the world's a Stage and all the men and women merely players, They have their exits and their entrances and ONE man in his time plays many parts, his acts beings Heaven ages"---Shakespeare

Beau,

Yes, it is called Hermetics because it is attributed to Hermes Trismegistus. It flourished in Europe during the renaissance when there was an interest in the ancient philosophers and was based on purportedly ancient sources. Wikipedia has a good article on the subject and makes for some interesting reading. Hermetics in renaissance Europe was also the source for the alchemical philosophies and included spells for, among other things, protecting objects, thus comes the term "hermetically sealed." Like I said, it's interesting.

Ramon

ty Ramon, I will check out the wiki right away!

_________________
"All the world's a Stage and all the men and women merely players, They have their exits and their entrances and ONE man in his time plays many parts, his acts beings Heaven ages"---Shakespeare

You're very welcome indeed, Beau!

Here's the link to the main article. I didn't really do him, or the subject, justice in my very brief description earlier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes_Trismegistus

I actually first heard of Hermes T. in conjunction with the Edgar Cayce material and remember reading some about the subject then.

Ramon

You can read the whole book on google

http://books.google.com/books?id=8E_Nfq0_k1wC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+kybalion&cd=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

I've read it and I must say I was impressed at the time. It's full of ageless wisdom. It is on the top list of MUST READ books ^^

There's nothing I like more than ageless wisdom ingerul9, thank you. I found this site through your link, thank you again, http://www.forgottenbooks.org/
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Yes Bette that's a great site. But the site itself has linked all of the books on google :). The pdf reader inside the forgottenbooks.org isn't as good as google.

Yeah the books, I love books, and that site has a bunch plus it has some functions as a publisher, as I understood it. Thank you again.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.