Since MBT model says that the LCS its a real finite system and its primordial evolutionary goal is is to lower its internal entropy (have always more organized patterns of its reality cells), its correct to think that the LCS will reach an state of the lowest entropy state possible?

If so, what will be the LCS goal?

IUOICs will no longer be necessary?

AUM-LCS will then evolve into something totaly diferent from consciousness? Did AUM-LCS evolves from previous state also diferent from consciousness?

Zandim,

I think that there are some other considerations you should be making. There is reason to think that the creation of IUOCs does not cease and that in the interest of investigating all possibilities, these are not copies of existing IUOCs, although they may include elements copied from/contributed by existing IUOCs. Thus it is expected that there will always be growth and new IUOCs with entropy in need of reduction. Unless another CS is encountered, preferably more than one, with whom AUM can interact and 'grow', there will be no way to reduce entropy other than the interaction of IUOCs as at present. Unless AUM changes its apparent goals of growth and development, I see no basis for IUOCs to become unneeded. I believe that this fits with things that Tom has said.

Ted

Ted, thanks for the reply.

So, As a system, AUM may never reach its lowest entropy state possible due to a never-ending process of creation of new IUOC's in need of reduction of their internal entropy.

And for a specific IUOC that reaches His lowest possible entropy state? What do we do after we finish the "entropy run"? Do MBT model, or Tom personally said something about it? Any clues from NPMR entities?

sometimes I think that the LCS is just one way of being.

That existence may be in ways in can nor even dream or imagine about. Maybe consciousness is just an step in an huge ladder

Another thing
In my opinion, endless creation of new IUOC's leads to the problem of an "eternal flux of time".
What is an huge conceptual problem for Itself.

I don´t know, but I have a strong gut feeling that consciousnes is not the "beginning" or the "end" of Being

Zandim,

Where consciousness might go into the future is very much open. Both on the level of IUOCs individually and for AUM about which we can only speculate as to the qualities of its consciousness.

We as IUOCs as and if we reach very low entropy levels have the options of continuing to incarnate as PMR beings as well as continuing our NPMR persona and serve the system in any number of ways. We can also, as I understand it, integrate with one or more other IUOCs and function as a new much higher level being in service to the system in many possible ways within the system itself.

This is my limited understanding.

Ted

Low-entropy consciousnesses serve others... this is a concept I've struggled with a lot.

I provide a service for a living, and dealing with consumers is often difficult. Sometimes I think I'm doing it to improve my karma (I don't remember MBT saying anything about karma, hmm...) which is actually a selfish ego-based motivation. Why would any being do anything at all if it didn't advance their own interests in some way?

And when LCS reaches its lowest entropy state, who will LCS serve?

_________________
If you love animals called pets, why do you eat animals called dinner?

Jumbles,

The CS always serves itself by serving the IUOCs. Lowering the entropy of an IUOC is the mechanism by which the CS lowers its own entropy and improves the quality of its consciousness. To reach a point of low entropy, such an entity will come to understand who/what it really is. This would include knowledge that it is an integral part of the One Consciousness as are all the other IUOCs. Thus it knows that serving the CS or any other IUOC ultimately comes to the same thing. Or so at least I understand it.

Ted

here are the two karma references I found at the below link




one idea I play with is that love through service is merely expanding your personal "utility maximizing equation" to include the higher ruleset immediate feedback as well as an eye on the great beyond (life beyond death), which is lower entropy for our IUOC in Toe-speak.

love as sacrifice is ego-speak...in reality, love is just smart, it is uncovering what we are

love (through service) to feel less crappy - love and service is actually very selfish...its just big truth selfish, not little truth selfish

no real reason to think you are better than anyone or less "selfish" - stupid selfish is just self harm

where this becomes science is when you try it out and monitor the feedback

===
google books trilogy link provided by Justin
http://books.google.com/books?id=RYHtBP ... ma&f=false

cut and paste and upload with Pixlr foxfire add on

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Ted and kroeran, thanks for the replies, but I'm not sure I truly understand them.

The first karma link says to me that karma is sort of a measure of our current level of development that determines what sort of lessons we have to learn; so there is metaphorically first grade karma and fourth grade karma and freshman karma, etc. That is different from my usual understanding of karma as being "you reap what you sow" or perhaps "rewards/punishments in the next world/the next reincarnation depending on your merits/sins".

Is it desirable that I be as selfless as possible in the customer service world when I'm only doing it to pay the bills? I often think I would rather just live a near-hermit-like existence. Working customer service improves my patience with people, which may be the lesson I'm "supposed to be" learning, but if it's not getting me brownie points in NPMR, then (except for the money) am I wasting my time trying to be nice to difficult people?

Another aspect of service I struggle with is this: I have witnessed that the providing of certain publicly funded services causes dependency on the part of those served. Former alternate coping strategies or means of independence are lost when one becomes entitled to a service. I believe in the strong helping the weak as a general principle of love, but sometimes being helped makes the weak more dependent. This does relate to low-entropy states in that while I think my service is helping me reduce my own entropy, the service may be making the service recipient's entropy higher.

_________________
If you love animals called pets, why do you eat animals called dinner?

Jumbles,

Why is doing 'right' based upon understanding your relationship to all that is a matter of just paying the bills? Especially since the service environment is actually NPMR and you have no bills there. Being of service is not automatically enabling. Being of service is interacting with someone with whom you came into this PMR lifetime specifically to interact with and provide them with needed lessons and steering toward the right solutions to their problems. Being their teacher, providing high quality interaction which they might actually view negatively at times as needed to learn their lessons.

Ted

how I would square this apparent circle is to think of it as the MBTOE intent->action->results->feedback->self modification->intent cycle leads to higher or lower entropy, and your emotional experience of your environment, your intent and actions, will be guided by your entropy level - the same crap will be interpreted and reacted to completely differently dependent on your level of entropy. This interpretation and reaction is the part that preceeds the end game of karma that you understand...so decisions (sowing) form Quality of Conciousness, QoC level calibrates your capacity to let crap pass by or pass through you without emotional effect.

Separately, I believe the quality of actual future events can be influenced by your QoC in the NPMR sense, especially if you start to explicitly game the system by aggressively stimulating your right hemisphere with meditation or creative activities, ferreting out meanness and ego from your behavior and trying to be as kind as possible, especially when circumstances are challenging, and by fearlessly accepting offers to novel situations and also seeking them out.

As well, in some merit-driven professions or in most businesses, kindness and other-centeredness are essential to sustainable performance and results. Perhaps not so much in the back stabbing culture of some government organizations.



All legal jobs, even the executioner, are equivalent ethically. Job description, description execution, pay check (pellet) falls out of the system, pay rent...and so on. What matters is how you execute that job description within the span of decision making accorded to your discretion, and the extent to which you behave as though you and the client or collegue are sections of the same sheet (AUM) rather than sock puppet bumps in the sheet (IUOCs), which is love. Love is what we are, not sacrifice for later reward.

This example I guess is the flip of your situation...I once "counselled" a strip club owner (no, this was at a beach bar on Fort Myers beach with my wife at my side...though in my younger days...) who was raised Catholic, and consequently faced a higher propensity of QoC emergence than your average person, who was having ethical trouble with his profession, but he had no other way to make a living. My message to him was to be the kindest strip club owner on the planet. Don't sleep with the girls, run as ethical and legal shop as possible, and make a sincere effort to redirect certain girls with the potential away from that life. Jesus told the Roman Soldier it was ok to be a soldier, just don't take bribes.

Being nice to difficult people is just "emotional economics". Swallow that bit of pride and annoyance in the bud. If you react in a negative way in such situations, my personal experience is that you carry those events with you for a very long time, possibly forever, and they weigh you down. That being said, you have to learn to protect your dignity and set limits on how clients, collegues or spouses are permitted to talk to you...it is not syntropic to allow yourself to be a doormat. Be firm, pay attention to your tone of voice which communicates the emotional aspect of your messaging, focus the discussion on the other person's action and how it made you feel, allow yourself to express vulnerability (ie. "that hurt my feelings") and don't counter attack, be in charge, show your personal power.



oh man Jumbles...I work in a government policy shop that directs several billions of taxpayers dollar handouts and this is it - you nailed it and I now baptise you in the Church of Libertarianism. Every government or NGO organization, once formed, acts in its self interest to preserve itself and maximize its power, even to the point of exploiting the clients it nominally serves. And in this sense it is possible that your job is actually less ethical than the strip club owner, but don't sweat it, do your best within your span of decision making...try to direct clients to better choices, try to carefully reform your organizations methods, look for a supervisor that shares your views, if the job makes you soul sick, look for alternate work or retrain or just suck it up and practise rolling your eyes a lot, like most of us do.

http://www.freetochoose.tv/

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Ted, I don't understand your first two sentences, could you please clarify or rephrase? I agree that being of service is not always linked with enabling, but in imperfect agencies it sometimes is. It can be hard to distinguish what is enabling and what is helping. For example, is it enabling or helping to put on your 82-year-old mother's gloves for her when she can do it herself but slowly? She is a very nice person but sometimes unassertive--is it enabling or helping when I do battle with the phone company for her because she lacks the will and the skill? Maybe these questions don't have clearcut answers, but they are the kind of things I struggle with related to service. Sometimes I wish others were as capable (in some areas) as I am and then I resent them for their perceived shortcomings which is not very low-entropy of me and certainly doesn't lead to the ideal of loving service. I guess what you and kroeran are saying is that when I serve in love I should do it because it's the right and smart thing to do, not because I'll be rewarded later. But then if I don't get rewarded for the pain-in-the-neck service I do, how does the service evolve me? (I can readily see how it evolves the recipient.)

I do agree with kroeran that a server should exhibit the highest level of service possible within one's job description. But I don't agree that all legal jobs are equally ethical. Being a soldier in an unjust war (aside from the draft) or animal slaughterer when vegetarian alternatives exist do not strike me as ethical choices. Perhaps Jesus told the soldier not to take bribes because He knew the soldier had no alternative source of income other than soldiering--not because nailing people to crosses was so ethical.

_________________
If you love animals called pets, why do you eat animals called dinner?

If Jesus really told the soldier that it meant don't manipulate other for your own selfish profit.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Jumbles,




My last reply was based upon this whole sequence. The 'customer service world' is NPMR as characterized by Tom. As a non physical reality, NPMR has no bills to be presented or to be paid. There are no things to buy. There are no services to be paid for. There is just information to be exchanged. It is difficult to know where you are coming from in these paragraphs. Does this make any more sense? Perhaps we need to talk about shorter statements rather than paragraphs in which it is not at all clear to me what you are saying. We do not seem to have enough common background to converse well.

Ted

maybe you have a point, but I think people overweight the job choice and underweight how you go about doing it

how you relate to your collegues and even more importantly, your subordinates, provides fertile soil for practising the arts of forgiveness, turning the other cheek, compassion, encouragement, mentoring, defending justice and the underdog and opposing bullying and oppression, welcoming the stranger, visiting the sick...the stuff above and beyond the call of duty

these things are universal, whether you are a member of Mother Teresa's religious community or are a navy Black Ops Seal.

you are being paid to serve your clients...don't give yourself too much credit for just doing your job : - )

have you read any Ayn Rand? one of her novels goes into the problem of a social worker surrendering too much of their life energy to others and getting burned out...remember to pace yourself and keep in balance

theoretically, a person might choose to be an executioner or the guy holding the kill bolt on a slaughter floor in order to make the FWAUs transition as comfortable as possible

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?