To expand one's own awareness, yes, and to increase one's decision-space. To grow; not be selfish but to care about others.
But what exactly is our task? To just be? Just experience? take everything as it comes? Just be helpful? All this can seem boring -- from an average person's PMR point of view. Our task is just to be in peace?
What can one do? I mean in the NPMR (?)
Help others? Interact with beings? Play together? Have fun?
One's motivation for growing up must exist, for wanting to grow up at all. What's the rewards?

I hope I have expressed myself enough, hope to get good answers.
If some missunderstanding may occurre, I can try fix it.

You get to help the system Evolve towards Love. Requiring a reward for living in Love is the wrong focus, it's not about the reward later, it is about the Love NOW.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Joseph,

We are here for a simple thing which works whether we do any of those things you mention. That is not to say that some of the things you mention will not arise as side effects. But bottom line is that we, knowledgeable or clueless, are here to interact with the PMR environment and especially with others experiencing the VR. We receive rapid and intense feedback from this interaction. So if we have any smarts at all, we will gradually reduce our entropy as a measure of the disorder within our being as digital IUOCs. This will inherently increase the Quality of our Consciousness. We do this as part of the Larger Consciousness System/AUM using us as the means by which it reduces its own entropy and increases the Quality of its Consciousness. This results inherently from the fact that we collectively are in fact the LCS/AUM. When Tom expressed this, he referred to us as being the working fluid in a Consciousness Engine.

Perhaps this does not give you a warm and fuzzy feeling, but think about it. We are integral parts of The One Consciousness, just as mystics have stated for centuries. Our cumulative fates, our efforts, are the 'stuff' from which The One develops itself to a higher level.

Ted

Joseph,
The idea of being loving, compassionate, and helpful may seem boring, and it may seem so simple, but I assure you it is not easy.
If it was easy everyone would BE LOVE and the world would be a utopia.
If you find yourself becoming bored you must not be paying attention.
If you find yourself getting fearful, angry, resentful, jealous, you can be pretty sure that these uncomfortable feelings are feedback.
The feedback mechanism works PERFECTLY. You will always know when you are growing towards love because you will feel the love, joy, compassion, and closeness to others.
And you will ALWAYS know when you are not growing towards LOVE because you will feel bad (fearful, angry, resentful, jealous, separated, and isolated from others).

_________________
LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

Hi Joesph...

These are all questions I still have too. But I think my search for answers comes from a want, or a grasping, to control life...control the situation. Thereby increasing my 'pleasure' without doing much.

I also look at the word "boring" you used. Boredom is an emotion or feeling, right? I get stuck here too. "Why the hell am I meditating? This is bull-crap! Shouldn't I be doing something else? Anything else? Nothing is really happening here." Some random thoughts of boredom that flow through my head during meditation. Not sure what others experience, but this is typical for me.

If I can just see those as thoughts, ideas, mental constructs of boredom....then realize that I don't need to attach to it, or do its bidding. Then I can come past some of those emotions and perhaps grow a little bit? Or at least I feel a little more centered, peaceful or whatever adjectives you'd like to insert. (Small picture stuff.)

I like the analogy of fluid in the consciousness machine that Ted brings up. We really don't amount to much...but are part of the bigger system. Is there any point in understanding, or 'believing' this? Just do the best we can. Verify if you're able (in NPMR) or however. And yes...have a little fun, eh?

Just pontificating...good discussion everyone!

Cheers,
Mark

_________________
Write down your dreams. They are your myths.

The working fluid in the "machine" is a great example.
I also like to compare us to the oil in your engine. When the oil has a high level of "viscosity" the resistance is low and the engine runs smoothly. If the viscosity breaks down, then there is increased resistance causing the engine to work harder and less efficiently, and eventually the engine will seize, and stop working, altogether.

Fear = resistance
Love = flow (viscosity)

_________________
LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

Okey, thanks a lot everybody for god replies!

But then the question lingers -- What does one do, when becoming love? (when reached the "limit" of what defines a very evolved being) ?

I mean not the "ceremony", not the graduation, if one even exist, but this is not my point, not even interesting -- I mean what kind of lives does one have then? WHAT DO ONE DO WHEN BEING LOVE? Still chasing pieces of paper with numbers on called money? Or maybe anything more meaningful? Anyone with experiences like to share?

I suspect that no one here can claim to know. However I do suspect that one begins to incarnate based upon what the system needs. Where ever it needs someone of great experience to do a difficult or thankless task. Where would you think they would incarnate? Lives of ease and pleasure? Lives as leaders of society? Lives as great teachers?

There will always be more to learn.

Ted

Also when every cell in my body works together with a high level of organization, then you could say that the parts are working together for the good of the whole. But sometimes there are cells that deviate from the unified structure of organization. these cells are called malignant (cancer).

The WHOLE organism only works as efficiently as the the individual parts working together.

So it is that WE are the Parts of the whole.

_________________
LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

My own experience and limited understanding is this:

In simple terms, our task (if we choose to accept it) is to set our intent on growth and then do our best to make each choice be a little bit better than our current level of being. This seems to be the base approach to growth. All the other stuff: increased decision space, entropy reduction, increased awareness, wisdom, etc are really more like side effects of applying the above approach. The more that this approach is applied, the bigger and more exciting the adventure seems to get. The goal it seems is to embraces the process. The reward (in part) is the amazing adventure that occurs when embracing the process. ...and I do not use the term amazing lightly here.

Consider this:
Most people might agree that trying to be better, more loving, etc typically creates more positive long term results; while being selfish, fearful, etc tends to create less desirable long term results. This is a big part of the the motivation. This, and the amazing adventure.

In terms of NPMR, dream states, etc. the same approach applies. The realities don't matter so much. We (as consciousness) are fundamental to every experience, regardless of what or where it is. Wherever you go... it is still just you, your choices, and the adventure.

In terms of what "level" a being is at; I cannot (from this perspective) see that the approach would be any different.

_________________
-"You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find... you get what you need"

It seems that the first task is to figure out what the second task is, and so on. If you think the task is boring, you have not found it yet. I think "take everything as it comes" is neglectful. We have intelligence and "agency" for a reason so our task must require that we use them.

The real question is; what is love? baby don't hurt me. (sorry.) These are my thoughts at the moment.

Many of the thoughts here can sound contradictory. Supposedly we are all part of "one thing", like the branches of a tree, and we should all love each other. Why then does it matter if someone dies? Trees and plants can be strengthened by pruning, the root system is less strained and can supply more water and nutrients to each of the remaining leaves. Yet, "thou shalt not kill".

Trees die because the trunk, crown and leafe-system become too large for the root system to support. Wars and conflicts are ultimately about resources; ideologies are mainly for morale among foot soldiers. People don't fight wars because they are "evil", or "lack love", or have "low entropy" - they are simply solving problems as best they know and often the problem is starvation. Is it lower entropy to starve rather than fight for food?

Another thought experiment, imagine that a plane crashes on a desert island. The passengers survive but the coconut trees can only feed half of the people. Who gets to live, how, and why? Is it love to sacrifice oneself? What about a suicide-bomb that takes out half of the people? With self-sacrifice you waive your ability to use intelligence and let whoever is most egotistic end up in charge. Are you not responsible for the situation you leave behind?

If you choose not to sacrifice yourself, what do you do? Organise the people into two groups to let them believe in some "higher meaning" for fighting each other, rather than just selfishness? Would it be considered free will if they believed in some jibberish religion that made them fight?

We talk about free will, but people unawaringly bend to the will of others constantly. Is it "ok" to manipulate people if they willingly fall for it and it's for their own good?

A garden is essentially nature bent to the will of man in order to fulfill his idea of "how it should be". A garden has very low entropy compared to wilderness. Is a garden beautiful or is it monstrous? A dog is nature reshaped according to man's will. Are you better of with a wolf for a pet?

Man is part of nature and if he rejects that, he dies eventually. Man is also a gardener of sorts. Metaphorically, maybe our task is to shape the wilderness into a garden while being as kind as possible to life that we both create and take. That would involve planting, weeding, watering, and pruning.

_________________
Johan

Desirability is a measure of how aligned something is to a specific intent. How do you have an unselfish intent? Is it unselfish of you to "want to grow"? If the universe would motivate you by aligning the results with your intents, is it not catering to your "selfishness"?

The reason I confront this is that most of the time when people say "love is the answer"; what they really mean is "if I smile, wear long hair and hawai-shorts, no one will trust me with responsibility and my life will get easier".

Either that, or there has to be a sort "plasticity" to the universe/PMR where the probability of events, from the perspective of an individual, change according to what that individual "deserves". Some people believe that if they coordinate meditation they can change the probability of events. If this is true, then the world is what Tom calls a "fun house".

Day-to-day, being loving, saying hello to the postman, etc I agree fully that it will improve the quality of consciousness. Do that. But it is indeed boring and can't really be called a "task".

_________________
Johan

Johan,

As has been explained multiple times, this PMR VR is designed to work just as it is for everyone. Those who live with a purpose or not. Those with spiritual knowledge or not. It functions as intended either way.

Our task is to accept the functioning of the VR as is and deal with whatever comes down the road. Interact with others as best we can. Then follow the feedback as part of this realities function is rapid feedback to train us in the right direction. Do something seriously wrong and mostly you get a kick in the behind to strongly suggest that the choice made was incorrect in some way. If you know a better way to interact up front, based upon morality or spiritual knowledge, this perhaps saves some correction by feedback. But just this interaction, feedback, course correction progression is all that it takes for this VR to function in reducing our entropy compared to just the experience of NPMR which is a VR without the intensity, physicality and rapid feed back.

Ted

I think if there is a message it is don't manipulate the free will of other at their expense and for your profit. Killing is the ultimate abuse of an others free will is all because that takes THEM as players completely out of this VR because YOU wanted to eat it, or take its car.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.