"Love"...?

Who are you trying to kid, Bette?

you're not fooling me for one minuscule delta T moment....

(I leave this for you to ponder and maybe even learn from if you so choose)


Rudy.

I don't need to ponder it. You think my words unloving. Your choice free will and all.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Rudolph,

So you are also one of those who pluck phrases out of context and feel that they can interpret as they wish. The context in which you stated above that "I have seen Tom making similar comments about the choice to exercise that privilege, or not." is as follows:In that context Tom is not referring to not using free will and having it turned off, he is talking about using it unproductively as in having a bad or negative personality unsuccessful at growing and reducing its entropy so that the negative personality has to be removed from existence entirely, other than its past record still remaining for reference. This does not say anything in the direction of having your free will turned off as in becoming subject to direction with no choice. It rather says that you can cease to exist for adequate reason of 'failure to thrive' shall we say. The reference to "perhaps replaced with something more effective" refers to taking your IUOC, which will not be destroyed in any case, and imprinting it with a new 'beginners' personality to start up the long ladder of development again.

Your ability to understand the English language in your own written 'speech' has a lot to be desired. As has been said before, everyone is allowed their own interpretation, just not their own facts. You may be the most absurdly contentious member that we have ever had here.

Ted

Out of context?!

No I didn't, Ted. Yet another false accusation from you towards me.
(Is there no karmic feedback mechanism here to eventually provide meaningful resolution in these matters?)

I quoted the meaningful and relevant part of the text and your dry addendum does not compromise my use of the quote to support the thesis in any meaningful way, shape or form.

If the most egregious offenders are ultimately erased it does not change the basic possibility of abuse of free will that I was referring to. Quoting the text that merely posited the idea that free will could be abused and left to languish in the manner that the text elucidated is standalone support and sufficient to establish the reasonable validity of the point that I had made.

I stand by my point and the relevant quote I provided and I refute your suggestion that it was out of context.

Then Rudolph you simply do not know how to read and comprehend the English language and seem dead set on proving it. How many people have to point out your errors to you before your ego permits you to understand that you are making errors?

Ted

I dunno Ted. How many?

Lets count 'em

Person by person, Line by line....

You won't do it will you....?

No, I doubt it....

Because you can't, because your accusations are groundless. It does not matter how many of your pals you can round up to try and prove 2+2=5 ...
you still can't show that I am in error.

Rudy.

P.S. I have met a lot of delusional rubes in my life but you are the first to suggest, "Then Rudolph you simply do not know how to read and comprehend the English language"
hahahhahahahahah :)))_))))

heh.

;)

Rudolph,

Not going through all of your posts and the threads and replies, I come up relatively quickly and easily with 6 others besides myself and gave you the benefit of the doubt on one other in various threads who have pointed out your deviations from understanding and logic. There are others who avoid threads within which you post for dislike of participating in or reading about contention. You are not exactly a purveyor of sweetness and light, logic and sensiblity where ever you go but rather much the opposite.

In alphabetical order they were Beau, Bette, Jeff, Montana, PGTrue and Specialis_Sapientia.

You rant and you rave (somewhat cured but apparently natural to your communications), you pontificate, you bluster and most significantly, you never answer questions nor rebut arguments with facts, you only divert and attempt to confuse the issue with these diversions, non replies and bullying. You are not the first here exhibiting these characteristics. The others are gone, willingly or otherwise, and we remain. If I vaguely remember correctly, there has been at least one who learned better interactions and stayed. What is your choice? You have had many opportunities to learn better interactions but seem adamantly opposed to the concept. Is it a choice that I will have to make for you? At present you are the major distraction from the normal purposes of this board.

Ted

Thanks for that paragraph too Montana – It seems logical to work with effective learners or ones that organize their bits more effectively. These bits that are maintained must be those lessons that are learned at the ‘being’ level as Tom calls it. In one of his talks he mentions that certainly all the left-brain types of learning are lost - Such as scientific knowledge, hence it would make sense to keep the most important bits – Plus the system is finite and it would be a waste of resources to save redundant skills?

Rudolph – That is a pretty darn good meditation to be having at such a young age. I guess no one had taught you that it wasn’t possible then, but it is great that you got some perspective on the past life. But that means 5000 years in NPMR up until now. Tom thinks we would all get bored between lives and want to come back again of we are like most humans, but that is some good time exploring, assuming no lives in-between.

Regarding MBT – It’s just a model, but being a bit of a rationalist as I am, it is a useful way of reconsidering what is fundamental and what is not.

Now knowing the details of the theory won’t give you any personal experience. It might open your mind up a bit, but nothing beats the real deal. Pondering the intellectual details will not get you anywhere if you are not having real experiences and learning it at the core level, through ‘knowing’ and ‘being’.

Time commitments are a challenge. Personally it is not like I can just hop into my meditation bed, get zapped by vibrations and ‘pop’ I am out…fully conscious of exploring the larger reality, like Bob Monroe did. This takes practice and work, as much as anything else does. I think when Tom worked with Bob and Dennis, he put in about 40 hours a week of meditation, which would have been good, although I cannot foresee that extent of work as being possible for me at the moment, without getting fired from my job… then again maybe that is a belief trap? I don’t know?

Regarding free will – In a way you have a point and I can see where you are coming from. People have choices, but they can only makes those that are in their decision space and the fact is many people have a small decision space because they don’t know any better and that is their evolutionary choice. Not that there is anything wrong with it. They are fantastic teachers to us, as they provide good role models of what not to become.

From the outside perspective from someone with a more open mind they may look like they are NOT using their free will. Don’t worry they are still using their free will ☺. They are just using it to constrain their decision space, especially if they are a well-regarded politician, someone of high stature or importance, who conforms to the cultural mould, or as Tom puts it ‘Emulating the evolutionary strategy of a clam’.

Ted – If you want any feedback or suggestions for the Wiki I am happy to help out if that would be useful?

To give you all some perspective if you are not aware of this, it is not all that uncommon for young children to remember past lives. They tend to forget as their parents and society tell them that it is not real, although they may have information from these remembrances that they could not possibly obtain elsewhere, just as Rudolph did.

In other countries where reincarnation is a standard belief, children who remember past lives are not that unusual and this is not as suppressed as it is here. Books by Raymond Moody and Kenneth Ring include information on past life research and I believe that it was Kenneth Ring that wrote about many children who remembered past families and were able to locate them and recount information from those past lives and recognize their families.

Ted

That means nothing. Sayin' it don't make it so. Lining up a half dozen illogical opinions is easy to do. Especially if they are of a Liberal mindset. Then they can all be expected to make the same errors that lead to a Liberal viewpoint.



I am very logical and very sensible but I do understand that I will not appear as sweetness and light to Liberals who will usually bristle at the mere thought of being exposed to Conservative viewpoints. I find that the more logical and compelling the presentation is the more upset the Liberals will be.



False. Please provide an example

You on the other hand are prone to ranting and unlike you I will provide backup; this post that I am replying to is exhibit A -- a long rant of false and unsubstantiated accusations backed up with zip. You have done this multiple times.



False. Please provide an example (to the first part)... and I have frequently answered questions and I have rebutted arguments that were actually made.

What I do not do is bark and run off on a wild goose chase on command. The, "here, go read this book or giant link and that will support my claim" nonsense won't fly with me. A quote from the link must be provided clearly presenting the supporting point from the large text in order to be considered a valid support for a claim that is challenged. You clearly do not understand this which is why you repeatedly make false accusations against me. If you make up your own rules of your own version of another popular game without getting agreement from the players first, don't be surprised if they don't follow your made up rules. The default condition that is generally accepted is that the onus of proof is on the one who makes the original claim, when challenged.

I do not know how many times I have tried to explain this to you. If a Liberal makes a False claim and I challenge by saying that is not so, the ball is now back in the Leftist court and the onus of proof is on the one who made the original claim, NOT the one who made the challenge.



False. Please provide an example



Actually Ted, my posts on the political thread were some of the most MBT relevant in the bunch. Your opening salvos were pure political rants filled with insults and false accusations. (Tea-baggers, Nazi-Hitler-Brownshirts, etc.)

Note that I am not here to convince you how wrong you and your Leftist compadres are. I am here to find out a few things about MBT and as a secondary pastime I refute Leftist deception along the way... for those with ears to hear.

If the Forum moderator happens to be an intractable, irrational Leftist who is incapable of tolerating dissenting opinion I may be removed for my failure to tuck my tail between my legs and expose my jugular.

If I am banned it will only demonstrate clearly that there is a double standard being applied here because you, Ted, are wayyy more guilty of the very things you accuse me of. Pure projection at work.


appendix:

Here is an example of how I included MBT concepts on these political threads;
Ted, my motivation for pointing out Leftist deception is similar to your stated desires in starting this thread. I have come to understand how "getting traction" and reducing entropy is far more consistent with small government and higher individual freedom. I see that the present Democrat Agenda is counter to the whole point of this Reality System and does not serve higher Consciousness.

As Dennis Prager says, "The bigger the government the smaller the citizen".
(and the less traction one can get, imho)

I made other comments of an MBT nature but no one replied to them. They just replied irrationally to the Conservative ideas that so predictably upset the garden variety Leftist.

If I have made any claims that you think I have not backed up just ask. Quote me exactly and just ask. Continually repeating a false accusation does not get us anywhere.

Small government=privatization. Discussion please.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

There are none so blind that will not see. End this now. Keep your comments MBT related or centered, post demonstrable facts and not opinions. Capiche?

Ted

It was not a meditation at 4 years old but more like a very vivid dream. They repeated, exactly, every time, over and over again. One many more times than the other. The images and events were burned into my consciousness so they were available for perusal and introspection around the age of 20 years, after I had been meditating for a couple years.

I wonder about those between lives years too. :)




I think MBT is one of the best models that I have come across.



Exactly. I have lived long enough to have fully bought into a couple major Belief Systems and fully rejected them. Then a few less extensive BS near misses on top of that ... I doubt I can ever take another Belief System seriously again, at this point.
Yes, memorizing what Tom said about something like the IUOC and generating a comfortable brain level cognition of the words as opposed to actually personally experiencing Consciousness beyond Space and Time are two completely different things. Real, genuine personal experience is far more instructive.




Yes, when I signed up for a serious work/study schedule that required waking up to an alarm again 5 mornings a week it really put a crimp in my conscious OBE exit frequency. But I am finding two mornings a week is okay too. I can't get successful conscious exits every day anyway, even when I try very hard. Some Teachers say trying every single day is counter-productive.



Hehheh!... yeah. I think it is a matter of 'levels' on a relative scale. The ability to exercise free will seemingly varies widely between a single child born to wealthy parents in North America compared to a baby girl born as the 6th child of an impovershed mother in North East Africa. If the African girl survives to adulthood her decision space will be nearly zero in comparison.

Rudy.

The implicit rule is that you have to be prepared to spend several years in training and be prepared to devote several hours each day to herding forum cats if you wish to apply to replace Ted as administrator

If that is not the case, I would gently propose letting Ted do his job and focussing your interaction on your substantive objective and not get distracted by tangential issues, which also serves as a test of your mental discipline and personal quality

Us conservatives demonstrate our superiority by not responding in kind to entropic behavior, such as meaningless argumentative loops ; - )

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

I think Tom's notion of decision space is slightly nuanced from the latter example...I would think more in terms of how a person of low entropy vs high entropy would respond to a specific situation, all things equal. The African girl will have many opportunities to interact with her environment and form intent/decision/action/feedback loops.

The game is how she chooses to respond to the various authorities over her (mother, father, village elder, sadistic boy next door) and more importantly, how she interacts with those under her power (younger siblings, neighbours children, family goat, wounded creature she comes upon carrying water).

A person of high and developing quality perceives these situations differently and perceives a more accurate picture of the actual decision space available. For example, we could have a discussion about the merchant who self immolated last year, setting off the Arab spring. History is full of these examples of unlikely behavior with significant consequences.

Whether the girl lives to adulthood or gets an education and moves to the capital or not is of absolutely no consequence TOE-wise...its all about the efficiency of the simulation in its task of presenting her with situations to interact with to accumulate data and form intents, toward lessor entropy and greater quality of conciousness.

The level of material decision space is a matter of system optimization, and the invisible hand of AUM is constantly fiddling with the dials to optimize things and seek conciousness profitability. In fact, old money families recognize the risks of raising children in environments of material privalege, lacking in functional constraints, and seek to synthesize the value of certain aspects of so called poverty, so that the social/economic quality of the family is sustained.

in a sense, this was the problem with NPMR all along, and why PMR was created, that is unfortunately reconstituted with unearned wealth - the lack of challenge and constraint which undermines quality development, hence the suggestion from the Nazarene to the rich man to give away his wealth (when pressed for guidance beyond pedestrian Judaism).

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?