Could someone explain to me how alzheimer's works? I have a grandma with it sleeping below me and I hear her moaning quite often and it really gets me down. I try and talking to my parents to do something about it but to no avail.

As a kid when I learned there was a disease that could take away your knowledge, I became paranoid and developed a "what is the point" kind of attitude and since then I have gotten past that but her grunts and moans are a constant reminder and I have to find some other place to try and meditate.

Does anyone know what she is experiencing, she's pretty far in and at a late stage of the disease. I wonder if she has something to say or what damage has been done or anything. Any answers would be cool.

Chrisly,

To find out about brains and consciousness take a look at:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=473&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
About 4 or 5 posts down the subject turns to brains and consciousness.

Ted singlehandedly nursed both of his parents through Alzheimer's from the onset to the end. He has a wealth of experience -- I am sure he will share it.

Tom C

Chrisly,

I saw your request when first posted. I waited for some clarification before attempting an answer. I'm sure you want answers for your fears as well as information about the disease. How much of this you want to discuss on the forum as opposed to in private messages, I do not know. And I can't say I know what the experience is like internally to the patient. It varies considerably and they cannot tell us much directly.

Have you read on the Internet about Alzheimer's Disease and about dementia diseases in general? Alzheimer's is the very common one that has everyone so scared as it approaches a pandemic with longer life spans, but there are others with slightly different characteristics. I suggest that you read up some and then get back to me when you know more what you want and need in the way of information. I will tell you now that the greatest reaction seen is the fear of the patient as they realize that everything, their mind, is slipping away. This is referred to as agitation and can represent great personality change with considerable display of anger and aggression towards those who formerly were the closest. A lot of paranoia. You will quickly find that you are asking a very broad question if you do look for answers in common references such as the Alzheimer's Association. http://www.alz.org/index.asp There are many other sources of information, including the government, that will be more up to date on latest research and such than I.

One thing that you will find if you attempt to remain in contact with your grandmother is that she is still in there. You will not see her as she was very often, or perhaps never. But brief and amazing returns are possible. And remember that she, within her higher mind, is still there as ever. It is only her PMR virtual mind, as governed by the PMR rule sets, that is defining her state as an Alzheimer's patient here in PMR.

Let me know what you need when you are more ready.

Ted

So true Ted. When my father was sick and fading in and out of our reality he came back periodically with real clarity . It was as if the filter was unclogged for a few moments at a time. It was amazing albeit the situation.

Peter

p.s. I must add he didn't have dementia, when he fell sick he became more vague.

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"Those who know do not talk.
Those who talk do not know." - Tao Te Ching

I too have personal experience of this - what I call, "disgusting" (because of its devastating effects) - disease. I nursed my mother at home through 12 years of Alzheimer's (til she left PMR almost exactly a year ago) and saw each and every development and stage. The whole experience has changed my life. There is no need for me to repeat what others have said on the subject, but one observation may be of interest as some kind of an insight as to how the illnesss feels to the sufferer. Very early on in her condition, before there were any real functional effcts, she had just finished eating dinner and was gazing thoughtfully out through the window into the garden. Suddenly she said, "I know all this is mine - but I can't get it up here" (pointing to her head). Later on, when she knew only too well what was going wrong, and beginning to panic, she asked of me please to look after her, and not to leave her. In doing so, she gave me the opportunity of a whole new outlook on life, coming into contact with people and ideas I'd never otherwise have encountered.

As Ted says, the real person remains intact throughout (though sometimes difficult for us to perceive), the limitations are purely physical. They will always respond to love, care and understanding, and need these more than most. Chrisly, I wish you and your grandmother well.

Arthur

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"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

All,

I will add one thing I perhaps should have said before. One new result of research is the finding that Alzheimer's sufferers do not appreciate being talked to as if they were children. They are still the adults they became before their functionality became reduced. It is their ability to remember, to function and to control themselves that is reduced. They may act like children because of limitations and fears, but they are still adults and do not appreciate being talked to as if they were children. Also, the knowledge provided by My Big TOE is of special value to them. That you already exist and will continue to exist as your true self elsewhere is greatly appreciated versus fear that you might remain in the state that Alzheimer's reduces you to. This is a trial that will end.

So do not 'talk down' to dementia patients in general. They will generally respond better to continuing to be treated as adults, 'grandmother' or whatever and Mr. . . . or Mrs. . . . rather that 'sweetie' and with all the respect that you previously had shown to them. This is not easy when they are subject to agitation and blaming you for some of their problems. But you must try to accommodate to them as they are the ones who are subject to limitations because of the disease. Your interaction with them is as much or more for you to learn from as it is a trial for them to learn from.

I am pleased to hear from others that they have also found it to be an opportunity for growth to care for a dementia patient. It will teach you the right way to be as little else can.

Ted

I thought of this story also when I read this thread http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00978.html

Peter

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"Those who know do not talk.
Those who talk do not know." - Tao Te Ching

Wow thank you all for the warm replies. I am currently doing more research, I guess I should have done so before I asked my questions but I'm sure I'll have a few more even afterwards.

I'm not sure how all of you know what you know but it is really helpful just to listen/read your experiences. I'm only 20 years old and I only picked up MBT this winter and only recently have been trying to meditate so thank you for your patience with me. I'm sure everything will be alright. Thanks again.

Here is an article on current Alzheimers research. http://discovermagazine.com/2009/may/17 ... alzeimer.s
Love
Bette

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Chrisly,

I was a nurse for 8 years. 6 of which i worked with Alzheimers patients of varying degrees from early onset to very advanced. I have been through the whole process dozens and dozens of times with the residents themselves and
their families.

I may be able to give you some tips and advice based on my experiences which range from men and women as young as 42 all the way to the 80's and 90's.

Without more detailed information at this point, what i could suggest in a general way is to develop a routine for them and try to stick with it.

In the early stages the routine can be more flexible. As the alzheimers progresses, continue to modify the routine making it more and more rigid. Too much stimulation, changes in environment, unfamiliar situations, etc. brings out all levels of frustration.

There are also a few things nutritionally you can do to help them , some types of enzymes I have seen used with moderate levels of success.

Feel free to contact me at my email anytime. (baltich@hotmail.com)

Steve

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Be the difference.

Relevent excerpt from "The Seth Material" by Jane Roberts:



Hope this helps - at least a little.

Cole

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Never live so certainly as to confuse your own convictions with what is true.

Cole,

I am afraid that I would not agree with 'Seth' in this case, other than the statement that each case of senility is different. I never saw any sign of personality transfer into 'the next area of existence' nor is this consistent with my understanding of MBT nor of Consciousness Space in general from my own sources. My parents and others I have had contact with remained entirely within PMR in their perceptions and functioning, just very reduced in functioning. The terminology of 'hardening of the arteries' is an outdated and incorrect perception of the problem from a medical standpoint. And it is not a matter of refusing to accept new stimuli and experience. The experiencers make no decision that causes their physical symptoms. And those who suffer from senility with physical degeneration and loss of functioning tend to loose fear of death and wish for it as an end to the suffering and loss of dignity that they are experiencing.

Ted

But Ted,

How can you be sure of what another person is experiencing subjectively? And can not 'inner decisions' be made from the perspective of NPMR and simply not recalled in PMR awareness? I don't really see how this is inconsistent with the model presented by Tom- since it's been made clear that we are never really "in" PMR to begin with... we are simply "experiencing" a data stream, that is then interpreted as a physical reality based on the constraints imposed on our IUOC. I'm not saying that Seth is "right" or "wrong" because I think that's a dualistic way of looking at things, and it's clear (as you said) that each case is different... But how can you be so sure that those suffering from such conditions haven't chosen the experience from a perspective greater than PMR awareness? That statement doesn't seem consistent with MBT-- which holds that we, ourselves, have the greatest effect on our probable future, and that this is a virtual reality, wherein our "physical" organism/brain is maintained by its connection to our (metaphorically speaking) over-soul. If this is the case- then ultimately our "higher-self" would have some role in our experience of alzheimers or anything else that occurs in PMR.

A similar thing occured with Tom when he was a young child and experienced an "adult" perspective from NPMR, and then basically "forgot" about the experience afterwards. Learning was done, decisions of some kind (that probably effected his experience in PMR in some way) were made- and still if you had asked Tom as a young child if his personality was inhabiting another reality system when he was sleeping, he would probably look at you like you were crazy. (I'm just gussing here.) How could this not be the case with those suffering from diseases here in PMR? I can't imagine that our perception of whether or not a portion of someone's awareness was focused in the "next world" would be very accurate, considering those experiences are subjective...


Cole

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Never live so certainly as to confuse your own convictions with what is true.

Cole,

You cannot be sure of what another is experiencing subjectively. Inner decisions, as you call them, are not in fact made either 'here' in PMR or 'there' in NPMR. They are made in your mind as your higher/total self which is always the IUOC, the decision maker, experiencing itself as 'you in PMR' and 'you in NPMR' by time sharing and switching between VR defining data streams and rule sets. Those experiencing dementias may have chosen to or may be experiencing their situation by chance, but in case a choice was involved, it was made when their higher/total self, experiencing itself in the NPMR VR, chose to accept a new experience packet including such an experience. The choice was not made here in PMR by the PMR virtual self. The choice, if there was one, was definitely made from a perspective greater than PMR awareness. You are again thinking of our higher self/total self as separate and different from our 'virtual' selves. It is you, in fact as you exist as your total/higher self, that is experiencing whatever you experience 'here' in PMR or 'there' in NPMR.

A part of your 'true self's' awareness is always focused in the "next world" as that is where it experiences itself as your virtual NPMR self. A part is also focused in Consciousness Space without a virtual reality overlay as your higher/total self doing whatever it is doing. But the PMR virtual self of someone suffering from dementia and having never had any understanding of the 'bigger picture' other than as given in a distorted fashion by religion has no basis for their PMR perceptions to be focused outside of PMR. If they should happen to 'visit' there by a switching of input data streams for whatever reason, it would still come through the 'dark glass' of PMR perception, which for them is very dark and distorted indeed by the ravages of dementia. You, if you visit NPMR or elsewhere by OOBE, have this same perceptual problem which is why there is so much discussion of the problems of interpreting and understanding these experiences from your PMR perspective and use of language. If a person with dementia has an OOBE experience, they face a multiplied distortion of perception, the extra distortion of dementia on top of the normal perceptual limitations of the PMR rule set.

Ted