Indeed, but it had little to do with love, and a lot to do with fear. Such "love" you are describing, can be disguised as such, but is a result of fundamental fear.

Andre,
The german people were, at the time, going through a terrible economic period. They were looking for a hero to "fix" the country.
They were manipulated by their fears by a hateful man ( fear)
They were led into a war for world power (because of fear and ignorance)
They were unified by finding a "common enemy" (fear-hate-superiority-ego)

Basically;
Fear of losing what they had (their proud heritage - ego driven - selfishness)
Fear of not getting what they wanted (wealth, pride, glory, and revenge - ego - selfishness)

We can see the same trends happening today

But lets not forget that there were many germans fiercely opposed to Hitler and they acted with loving intentions by sheltering and protecting victims.

Just as there are people today that are opposed to the new fascism (they are labeled as being soft, weak, and unpatriotic)

_________________
LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

Yes, but without love, it would not have been possible for them to do what they did. They would simply have been helpless, and harmless, neurotics.

Love isn't deluded.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Would you be capable of participating in the extermination of an entire RACE of people (men, women, and children) so that your children could live in a bigger house and drive a better car?

_________________
LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

They were looking for meaning in their lives, not an improvement in the economy.




Hitler did not manipulate the germans by fear, but by offering them the fantasy of a new, beautiful germany. Only those who did not accept this new ideal had to be manipulated by fear. The rallies thus served a dual purpose: to inspire AND to intimidate.




You are wrong. They were unified by a common, positive goal, of a new and improved germany/world. If Hitler simply wanted to kill all the jews, he would have received very little support, if any.




There were many germans fiercely in favour of Hitler that also acted with loving intentions. Some of them worked in concentration camps. Few in nazi germany killed for the sake of killing. They killed for the sake of a better, more loving world.

I apologize. It appears that we are speaking two different languages

_________________
LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

You have to understand that a collectivist does not see killing individuals as something bad. To a collectivist, individuals are merely the cells of the great organism, which is society. To the nazis, the jews were perceived as a cancer on society, as selfish corrupters of the organism. They did not exterminate the jews for the sake of individual children and their comfort, they sought to exterminate the jews for the sake of the society as a whole. By getting rid of the cancer, the organism is restored to health. They saw allowing the jews to remain alive as irresponsible, like letting a malignant tumor stay in the body. It was out of love for the collective that they sacrificed themselves as individuals, as well as others. Once you are able to sacrifice yourself, sacrificing another becomes trivial.

Yes, okay, maybe it wasn't such a great idea replying to his response, or expanding on that reply with others. It seems you people are under such a dense fog of illusion that communication is impossible. Or maybe I'm the one under the dense fog of illusion. Hah, maybe both. Either way, there is no point trying to communicate under these conditions.

I think you need to review your WWII history. Not many Germans stepped in to help any of the Jews. The Germans were greedy and jealous for all the material riches the Jews owned. They took jewelry, art, money, furniture, fillings out of teeth - and even made lamp shades out of skin. They also did horrible medical experiments on prisoners. The Germans were able to do what they did because they were masters at compartmentalizing. Kill Jews by day and be a loving husband and father at night. Their theory of developing a pure race was just an excuse.

Andre,

The problem might be that if you are trying to explain the nature of the delusions that motivated Nazis and those who were not members of the party on the basis of their being deluded and that they perceived love for the fatherland and the people as justifying all of the things that they did as part of that delusion, you are not making it clear. If you are trying for a literal justification of those concepts as being based upon love, that is not likely to get any understanding here. The concept here is more that all of those actions were violations of the free will of those being killed. Contrary to proper bases for interaction in totality and absolutely. These things cannot be justified on the basis of love for an abstract like the Fatherland or society.

Could you perhaps clarify your intent in your statements?

Ted

Taxation for the sake of a welfare state is a violation of the free will of those being taxed. Yet you expressed the sentiment that "those on the right" seeking to "get rid of social safety nets" should be "feared". This led me to believe that your notion of love does not require respect for freedom, so much as for "welfare", or the things you describe as foundational goods. The nazis did not respect freedom, that is absolutely true. They did however view their actions as furthering the welfare of the whole of society. My perspective is that even if the nazis were correct in their belief that killing the jews would make the world a better place, they were wrong because it is not proper to sacrifice some for the sake of others. Is that perspective shared by others on this board?

The word love is not used for what you describe, it has nothing do with love. Behind all those positive terms you use, there were just rotting intentions. Control by fear and violence, hate, obedience or death, herd mentality, group dynamics of the lowest common denominator in terms of entropy, propaganda, and just pure evil. The intents and motivations were based on fundamental fear. The fear was revealed in multiple aspects on several levels.

When you say:

It shows your level of understanding of how fear at the being level affects humans and their decisions. That you have reversed everything, by giving positive attributes to something which is one of the best examples of what fear can do in the history of humanity, it is not a simple lack of communication, but understanding.

Also, what Ted said.

The fear was there before the nazis. It was an existential fear. The nazis offered the germans a way to escape this fear. The way was love for the Reich, and love by the Reich. A very clear explanation of this process can be read in Orwell's 1984. The goal of the nazis was not obedience inspired by fear, but devotion inspired by love. To a relatively high degree, they achieved their goal.

I am well aware, as are most people, of the atrocities commited in germany. And for the most part you are correct that the germans were happy to be rid of the jews and enjoyed the "benefits" created by the jews' "loss".
But we need to be carefull not to label the entire german populace as being ruled by hate and fear (as is common)
But there were in FACT many germans opposed to Hitler even if they were overshadowed by the frenzied hate that was rampant at the time.
From Wikipedia:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_resistance

The NAZI party was a political party that had opposition just as here in this country we have a faction of the populace that pushes for policies of hate and fear, and war for profit.

_________________
LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick