In my life experience so far i have come across many situations that had something to teach me. One that i find particularly hard to incorporate is the diffusion of other people's emotions projected unto me(Does this mean about me that i have not gained mastery over them?).

Anger being #1 in the list is a very strong emotion, very hard to ignore. Occasionally i find myself adequately prepared to diffuse it with the proper words, body language and intent altogether. What seems to be the problem in most of the cases that i fail to do so is the fact that emotion are so very contagious.

In Anger it stems from the fact that the other individual is changing attitude and energy levels. In order to have an impact and properly diffuse HIS anger you have to raise your energy levels as well so you have the mental power to keep your clarity and meet them halfway with the diffusing ideas. It's sort of like frequency.

I though find it particularly difficult to think straight when in that state and as observed when i calm, ideas about what to say or how to properly diffuse the situation start flowing again, alas needlessly now that the critical moment is over.

Another Emotion that is difficult to wash away is fear of course but i would like to sort of stay on Anger for starters and see what kind of responses you people give me.


I would like some feedback on: How do you view the situation, do you have similar experiences? How do you deal with it? Does St. Anger deserve respect or contempt(or what?)? Have you found a positive way to diffuse aggressive arguments and if yes does that leave your ego bruised or can it be neutralized completely?

Tom says that most people are doing the best they can with what they have to work with.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Yes that is true. It's just that we are all here to become more than we are. To find a way to lower entropy efficiently and quickly(within our particular lifetime in each case). I would welcome personal experiences, they tend to hold the most substance.

Dissipating arguments can be method taught and are psychological in nature... using adrenaline dump methods... negotiation techniques etc. Obviously these don't cause a long term fix, especially with the people close to you.

When somebody is directing anger towards you, reaching the same energy level won't really dissipate the problem... it will surely fuel it; adrenaline is part of the problem... PMR fueling compound. It works for martial artists who have an ingrained set of coping algorithms to deal with it.

When I have a person angry at me, for whatever reason I instantly get a mild surge of adrenaline. I'm quite an animated person and I also have a pretty expressive face... I use a lot of facial visual clues when I am animatedly trying to dissipate an angry persons bubbling fury or indeed when I'm communicating in general. That's something I can't comment on or give advice on how to do... but it works.


If they have a fair point and I've done something wrong then I may feel that nag of going out with a fight still left over as a remnant of my teenage years... but generally I can dissipate it pretty quickly by conceeding that I have indeed been a total plonker. :)

However if it's something that is clearly a product of me not reaching their expectations or because of a redirection from something out of my control, then I immediately lower the volume of my voice. This immediately causes them to feel somewhat like they are in a library... and lowers their adrenaline level.

Derren Brown (a UK mentalist) gives a great example of a time he got out of a sticky situation. He was walking through a rough part of a Welsh town after doing a hypnotism gig at a working mens club. He was wearing something he describes as making him look like a renaissance period dandy. He was confronted by a very angry guy who had just had an altercation with his fleeing girlfriend. The guy stopped him and confronted him because he had obviously watched the argument as he approached the two. The guys ego was massively damaged and he was fueled up to blow.
He said something to Derren. Regardless of the fact he was pooping himself Derren dropped his shoulders and changed subject completely by exlaiming...

"It's strange... The fences in Spain are only this high (gesturing a small height from the ground)... Yet the ones over here are really tall (gesturing a measurement above his head)"

The guy instantly had an adrenaline dump because of the non-situational, non-relevant and totally non-agressive statement. They ended up sitting on a curb, the man crying on Derren's shoulder about his failing relationship.

How this would work out of Derren's personal situation I don't know... but it is an example of how we can learn a set of responses that deal with other peoples high entropy based anger.

My personal experience thus far has led to me to a very simple and basic approach.

The approach is this: to look at my own intent and motivations with as much honesty and humility as I can muster, and then do my best to make my next choice be even just a little bit better than my current level of being.

Something else to consider is that we really have no control over the emotions and actions of others, so maybe don't even consider gaining mastery over them. We really do not have any control over the given situation either. We could do everything by the book and with perfect grace in an attempt to diffuse a given situation and it can still go all wrong. The only thing we have control over is ourself... and even that is limited.

Trying too hard to be better is at some point useless and can become a hindrance. There is only so much we can do about our own ignorance. We just can't know what we don't yet know or understand what we don't yet understand. There is no switch on our backs that goes from "good" to "bad"... it takes lifetime after lifetime and experience after experience to grow. From our perspective it is somewhat pointless to speculate where it ends (aside from intellectual fun). If we are all one and are constantly evolving and changing, then the "end point" is in a state of flux.

Direct experience is the key ingredient to increase our decision space. So just trying really hard is not enough in and of itself. So we maybe have to lighten up a bit and not expect perfection of ourselves (or others). Pretending to be better is futile. That is where the humility and honest introspection comes in handy... to attempt to see ourselves as we actually are as apposed to trying very hard to play the role of what we think we should be. This is why the baby step approach is effective and necessary. The final destination is perhaps better left forgotten while the process itself is embraced. So we could consider letting go of what should I be? and what is the perfect choice for me to make? and instead focus on what am I now? and what choice would be just even just a bit better then where I am now?.

This whole concept applies to every situation.... arguments, war, love, et all.

One last thing that helps me keep perspective. If I ever begin to get the feeling that "I" am mostly right while "they" are normally wrong (ie, too much anger, entropy, beliefs, etc)... then I am probably just trying to play the role of who I think I should be and not actually considering who I really am.

Sorry to ramble on, I'm sure this was more than you were asking for. It is of course just my own findings and therefor potentially wrong.

_________________
-"You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find... you get what you need"

You cannot defeat anger with anger. You can only defeat anger with love

LOVE turns anger into compassion

_________________
LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

I don't have people getting mad at me as the issue. I have issues being frustrated with people negatively effecting my family, and I blow. I can only get better though at this point.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

@B Thanx, This is useful stuff, i sucked it up like candy does a baby. MOAAARRRR!!!

@Justin

My personal experience thus far has led to me to a very simple and basic approach.

The approach is this: to look at my own intent and motivations with as much honesty and humility as I can muster, and then do my best to make my next choice be even just a little bit better than my current level of being.


That's always my first and last move but what if the other person really wants to make you angry by playing with one of your insecurities? I dunno, i find it hard to play the role of mother Teresa and just play the dumbfounded saint who's always agreeable, when one tampers with my internal world i always run a quick mental check on them and see if they are worthy of scolding me, if they are i try to listen while i try to tone my ego down telling me "don't have any of his shit", if they are wrong i shut down and i don't accept a word they say without reacting to it. Not the most mature reaction, i know but it's the truth and that's where i am at the being level right now.





Something else to consider is that we really have no control over the emotions and actions of others, so maybe don't even consider gaining mastery over them. We really do not have any control over the given situation either. We could do everything by the book and with perfect grace in an attempt to diffuse a given situation and it can still go all wrong. The only thing we have control over is ourself... and even that is limited.


Maybe we don't have direct control of other people's emotions sure, but indirect? sure we have all the potential of having control, in fact we have as much control of other people's emotions as they allow us to have(in my case sometimes i am being under control while someone is frustrating me by manipulating my anger). I am a man who's been in both ends of the deal. My observations stem from this fact, usually it's a fight of intent but sometimes even if the intent is strong the one leaving the argument unscathed is he who has the most experience in applying certain techniques(Or rather he who EXPRESSES his intent in the most profitable manner). Bedeekin gives a few examples of this, Of course none of that is possible without first having control over yourself.


Trying too hard to be better is at some point useless and can become a hindrance. There is only so much we can do about our own ignorance. We just can't know what we don't yet know or understand what we don't yet understand. There is no switch on our backs that goes from "good" to "bad"... it takes lifetime after lifetime and experience after experience to grow. From our perspective it is somewhat pointless to speculate where it ends (aside from intellectual fun). If we are all one and are constantly evolving and changing, then the "end point" is in a state of flux.


Have you seen the movie "Peaceful Warrior"? A quote from there: "Did you notice how the right leverage can be very effective? What if i were to tell you that's what's your training, even your life is about? Developing the wisdom to apply the right leverage in the right place at the right time." That's what Socrates told Dan Millman right AFTER he dropped him on the floor after a quick display of reflexes.

Dunno, Justin, i'm kinda big on that. To me a man should never say in life that trying too hard is useless. We may never reach perfection, but to stop trying is entropy and decay.


Direct experience is the key ingredient to increase our decision space. So just trying really hard is not enough in and of itself. So we maybe have to lighten up a bit and not expect perfection of ourselves (or others). Pretending to be better is futile. That is where the humility and honest introspection comes in handy... to attempt to see ourselves as we actually are as apposed to trying very hard to play the role of what we think we should be.
With you so far


This is why the baby step approach is effective and necessary. The final destination is perhaps better left forgotten while the process itself is embraced. So we could consider letting go of what should I be? and what is the perfect choice for me to make? and instead focus on what am I now? and what choice would be just even just a bit better then where I am now?.

This thread i made exactly for that reason. Although i have been finding answers within i still like to hear what my fellow man has to say. That is my way of postulating to the world that i am not perfect, that i don't have all the pieces to the puzzle, but i never cease striving to become perfect. (Yeah i know, Fight Club said Perfection is Masturbation, but who cares?


This whole concept applies to every situation.... arguments, war, love, et all. ok

One last thing that helps me keep perspective. If I ever begin to get the feeling that "I" am mostly right while "they" are normally wrong (ie, too much anger, entropy, beliefs, etc)... then I am probably just trying to play the role of who I think I should be and not actually considering who I really am.

Playing roles is fun and useful, although i understand what you're trying to say, sometimes we humans act a certain way not because we feel like we appear but instead to show to the world that we understand how we SHOULD be behaving, thus we take up the role of how a person of our society should handle a situation in direct response to a certain stimuli. I am curious, have you ever been in a situation where the social contract obliges you to participate in this kind of social drama? One cannot walk away so easily then, and that's where my context becomes visible to one and everything locks into perspective as to what i am "talking about".

Sorry to ramble on, I'm sure this was more than you were asking for. It is of course just my own findings and therefor potentially wrong.

Please, no ramble no evolution, let me THANK YOU for rambling :D






Ok Now some context:

I work at a car rental company.

One sunny morning i am sent by my boss who's a relatively old guy(about 55ish) at a marina to make a contract to certain well endowed customers(i wanna emphasize the well endowed part), all good so far. He gives me basic info concerning the situation and he emphasizes that i should be careful not to take any cash from the customers except insurance money and additional driver(anyway, details, not really interesting). He calls the services by price giving me an idea of what i should charge should it came to that.

So i leave for the marina and eventually find the huge boat and i do find the captain and blah blah blah i charge him with the money for insurance. Straight afterwards i meet my boss waiting to pick me up. I explain how it went and i am mentioning briefly that i have some cash from insurance. The guy then loses it completely yelling at me:

Sample dialogue:

Him: I TOLD YOU NOT TO TAKE ANY MONEY FROM THE CUSTOMERS
Me: You did not. You even gave me the prices to charge
Him: ARE YOU INSANE? YOU ARE GOING TO RUIN MY GOOD COOPERATION WITH THESE PEOPLE
Me: Then you should have been more careful when you gave me instructions, i did exactly what you instructed
Him: :Bangs on the steering wheel: (I look at him with apathy drawn on my face) WE'LL GO BACK THIS SECOND AND YOU'LL GIVE THE MONEY BACK
Me: Ok Drive

That's what i mean by "reaching the same energy level" as them(It seems that i suck at expressing myself adequately). I could have easily cowered and say: "Yes boss, you are right boss", but no way! I was right, i knew what i heard and i trust my memory WAY MORE than i trust his little ol' fragmented one. So i stood my ground.

What would you have done guys how could that situation be handled better(assuming that you are right and sure of it)?


Justin now THAT'S RAMBLING!

I think we just see it slightly differently, and that of course is perfectly normal and great.



What I was trying to express is that situations such as the one that you are describing are the solution rather than the problem. Such experiences (regardless of if we respond in the absolute best or worst way) are the means by which we grow. It is not just a matter of trying harder. Making all the right choices in a situation is nice, but it does not (by default) beget growth. The experience itself is the instigator of growth. That is exactly why we are here having experience after experience. Intellectually formulating plans and analyzing such things can be useful of course, but the idea is that we don't really "get it" until we have been through "it" countless times... with different people, different results, different settings, at different stages in our path, in different lifetimes, from different perspectives, etc, etc.

Trying is by all means necessary and fully required for growth. I was not saying to not try. The idea that I was getting at is that it is pointless for a toddler to try to be an Olympic runner. I could spend the rest of this life absolutely focusing on nothing but being better, move loving, etc. However, when I pass on, I will have still only made a baby step (it might be a hair bigger I suppose)... there are still 100,000,000 + other experiences ahead of me that are necessary to grow further. I need them to grow. I can't go past a certain point until those other experience come to pass. That is why "I" will come back not as "Justin" but as "Kim"... or "Mikey".. or whoever. Maybe my personality will be a bit more aggressive... or maybe more passive. I might be a yelling boss next time and spend that lifetime trying to grow out of that mess. Experience, experience, experience. The idea then is that Mother Teressa, Gandhi, et all did not necessarily try harder than the rest, but instead had been through a greater number and variety of experiences than the rest. The "try" came into play as they kept on keeping on through all of the various experiences. That of course is an assumption to express my point. I'm sure there is also more involved in terms of such people being here.

This is what I meant with the idea that it might be good for us to relax a little and not try to control the experience or over think it... or over try (pretend). Our own imperfection and the imperfection of others is the means by which we have such a multitude of experiences to grow from. Maybe there is no need to control such experiences... then again maybe trying to do so is part of you current experience. Do you see what I am saying? We can just experience, do our best in it, and move on to the next experience, and the next one, and the next one, ad infinitum.

So the next time somebody is rude and we get upset or frustrated (or not)... after the dust settles, maybe we should wholeheartedly shake the person's hand and say, "Wow, thanks for the experience! It's been real."

By the way, I am not intending point any of this at you or your situations... It is just my current take based on my own effort and experiences in this existence thing.

All is well :)

_________________
-"You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find... you get what you need"

What's up High Entropy! (love the name)

Your boss situation involves what I call the "Petty Tyrant". In other words, someone who thinks or knows that they have the upper hand on you for whatever reason so they are confrontational toward you.

I've had similar problems with my dad. A while ago I used to live with him and it was a very unhappy time for both of us. He wasn't happy with the way I was living because he thought I was throwing my life away (I wasn't in school but I was working on building an online business and planning to move out in a few months).

When I told him my plans he laughed it off and demanded that I go back to school. He would constantly seek out confrontations with me and make me feel like I was a burden and the cause of his unhappiness (he said I was costing him money by being not being in school even though 1)I had IBS and barely ate anything in the house 2)He had a well paying job 3)He racked up a huge amount of debt, ON HIS OWN 4)He kicked my mom out but then blamed her for moving on with her life etc etc ).

I just kept to myself and continued doing my own thing until he confronted me again but this time it became a physical confrontation because in addition to insulting me he insulted my mother and I lost it.

I moved out and things eventually cooled down between us to the point where he calls me and I visit him occasionally.

You are in a similar situation in the sense that your boss knows he has an advantage over you so he feels like he can abuse you (whether he's wrong or not). Would he do that to his clients?

No way!

Because THEY have the upper hand over him. He wants THEIR money so he'll kiss THEIR asses. He won't kiss yours though.

My advice to you is not to attempt to control him or play any kind of psychological game because it's pointless. He has the upper hand and you both know it. Any kind of games will probably result in him abusing you further (or even worse, firing you).

I suggest you humor him while secretly plotting your escape from that job and then suddenly quit (ideally when it's really busy and you're needed).

It's funny that you mention leverage in your post. Person to person interaction is all about leverage and whenever someone is abusive toward you it's usually because they feel they have some kind of advantage.

Unfortunately, there's no one size fits all reaction. Some situations call for you to ignore the person, some situations call for you to agree with the person (For example, if they have a gun, or if they're your boss) it really depends.

If I'm in a social setting and someone is being a loudmouth, I use calm (but brutal) arrogance. That usually makes them back off. If I'm dealing with a petty tyrant I ignore/agree with them while plotting my escape (and if possible, screw them over).

If I'm physically threatened but could escape, I'll escape. If I can't then I'll fight.

That's all really.

If you understand that the point of your incarnation in this VR (Virtual Reality) is evolving toward love, then really these situations are more opportunities for growth than anything else. Quitting unexpectedly when your boss is busy is nice retribution for past wrongs but counter productive for your entropy.

Anger really comes from fear. I think your boss is a deeply insecure man who may even be quite jealous of a younger employee coming up the ranks. Compassion for him is your best bet. How do you handle the situation? You say, "Gosh boss, I thought I understood exactly what you instructed me to do, but I guess not. Lets turn around and I'll go back and straighten it out. Tell me how you want me to approach this customer to change things satisfactorily." When you agree with him and offer to change things he has nothing to buffet his anger against, and you have had valuable practice on how to kindly handle someone who is very insecure. You don't let your ego get involved in the situation.

A lot of us (and you may too ) have just these kinds of tests in dreams as well. The situations may be a bit more outlandish because of the leeway available in a dream data stream. It is a great feeling when you pass one of these tests and it gives us a lot of food for thought when we react with anger. Your PMR (Physical Matter Reality) data stream isn't any different. You will get lots of practice with these situations until you learn that the key really starts and ends with you and your feelings toward the other person. It is your ego that is rearing up with anger and resentment. Let go of that and you won't have a conflict. It is harder than it sounds, I know. It is something we all work on.

I just happened to be listening to the Fireside Chat with Uncle Tom (Campbell) today, that was recorded last Fall, and towards the end of it is a rather long statement from Tom about dealing with negative entities. Of course, he was responding to a question about negative entities in NPMR, but it struck me that a lot of the advice could apply equally well to handling negative people in PMR.

To access the Chat, follow this link: http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?uid=4410&f=19&t=5520&watch=topic&start=0&hash=850a4a6f

I have found that some people search for easy or "permissible" prey which they can fire off frustrations on to feel better about themselves. It's so much easier to burn adrenaline by accusing someone than examining oneself. One way to "get out of dodge" is to put up a mirror as a sort of shield. Just agree with them immediately.

"This or that is intolerable!!"
"- you're absolutely right! intolerable!!"

At best it seems comedic. Usually the topic switches.

Generally I see two paths: is there an actual issue to discuss? If there is, it should be possible to sort it out. If the topic keeps switching when you ask for the details, there is probably no actual issue, just a general accusation on the world. By agreeing early, you can avoid becoming the target of this anger and it will work as a sort of mirror to the angry person.

_________________
Johan

The struggle (with anger ) is not outside of you. The struggle is always within self. The illusion of separateness makes us believe that it is "self" vs "other" when in fact it is "self" vs "self" The issue is not how we can change (or fix) them, the issue is, how do I change ME, so that I can better handle these situations?. Whenever we are confronted with anger, or any negativity (fear, hate, frustration) the question is "How do I respond to them?". How did I react to the anger? Did I respond with anger? Did I become angry? was I fearful? Was I insulted or frustrated, and, "HOW did it make me feel?", and why? Since anger is really the result of fear and ego. The struggle with anger is actually the same old struggle between love and fear. This seems to be the nature of the human condition. This dis-ease, is the disease of selfishness. The sickness that we seek to cure in others is also within us. We all want to believe that "I" am right and "they" are wrong. We have an overwhelming urge to "change" others, because "WE" know better. We feel that the world would be so much better off if everyone would just do things MY WAY. But the only way to "cure" the world, is to cure "self". We are all engaged in this same struggle. "I have seen my enemy, and he is me." Everything that we seek can only be found within self, but, everything we hate, is also found within self. This requires us to love, and forgive not only "others", but also "self"

Once you realize that:
1)Fear (entropy) is an extremely painful condition, causing many painful symptoms, and is therefore, SUFFERING.
2)We are all one consciousness, and cut from the same fabric, and therefore, INTERCONNECTED (Absolute Unbounded Oneness became Absolute Unbounded Manifold)
3) Any separateness we perceive is simply an illusion (virtual). Therefore, to injure another is to injure SELF. To HELP another is to help SELF. To love another is to love self, and to reduce our INDIVIDUAL entropy is to reduce the overall entropy of the entire system, if only just a bit, but the effect spreads exponentially (love spreads exponentially, as does fear)
4)Since there are so many people suffering and not ready to change, and we cannot FORCE others to change

It leaves us no other alternative than to just LOVE them the way they are, and to have COMPASSION for their, (for the most part) self inflicted, suffering.


"You, yourself, as much as anyone in the entire universe, deserves your love and compassion"

Tom has said: "LOVE turns anger into compassion"

_________________
LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

Why didn't you use this knowledge before when people contradicted you on AVers then? LOL



Sure, of course. If I kicked you in the face for no reason would you be able to dissipate your anger and not fuel mine even further?



How do you know what they feel? What if they don't care about being quiet in libraries?



It's funny but, I remember you claiming to have used this line before in order to lower a gang's adrenaline so you could beat them all up like a ninja. And you also had us all believing that the line was yours and not Derren's. It was on Astral Viewers, remember?