Hi all!
I watched a documentary programme recently about the nature of self awareness, and in it they showed an experiment conducted by Prof John Dylan Haynes where a subject is placed inside an MRI scanner and is then asked a number of questions with a simple yes-no answer. Apparently the subject believes that they are making a conscious free will decision in response to each question but when the experiment is over the MRI scanner shows that a particular part of the brain (lights up) SIX SECONDS before the subject is consciously aware of their yes or no answer. Thus the scientists know the answer six seconds before the subject does!

It appears according to this experiment that free will is an illusion. What do you guys think?

Kind regards.

Good thing you bring that up.

A study was published only ~ 1 month ago, which made a similar experiment to John's. They made to experiment to verify Benjamin Libet's (the orignal controversial experiment about free-will and readiness potentials), and their results was puzzling. Benjamin's experiment's conclusion could not be supported. And the new results made no conflicts with the concept of free-will

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Libet

"..But now they have two consciousness researchers Jeff Miller and Judy Trevena from the University of Otago in New Zealand released Libets experiments reviewed and concluded that the unconscious did not decide anything. It only anticipates. Free will is thus saved in this round."

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... r-all.html

I think this experiment was able to prove a constant communication between 'parts' of IOUC. Free will belongs to a whole IOUC, and not only to 'I' residing here in this life span in this VR. I think this experiment can take us to another step - how to recognize and become more proficient in this communication. Think about our intuition. It is exactly the same contact channel between us 'here' and our highest self 'there'.

Lena

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'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

A lot of times I know when my cell phone is going to ring and also sometimes who is calling me. I also perceive an alarm before ringing in my cell phone.

It's curious that my telepathic messages usually come around a few seconds before the actual event. I just measured 6 seconds and I would say it is usually around that period of time. The fact that IUOCs can anticipate events has nothing to do with free will.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

This lecture talk is exactly about that.

See: The Extended Mind: Recent Experimental Evidence

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnA8GUtXpXY

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... +Sheldrake

(The experiment with the dog in the second video at around 1:00:00 is interesting)

Thanks SS!

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

To All,

Please note what was actually said in the original post above:

"Apparently the subject believes that they are making a conscious free will decision in response to each question but when the experiment is over the MRI scanner shows that a particular part of the brain (lights up) SIX SECONDS before the subject is consciously aware of their yes or no answer. Thus the scientists know the answer six seconds before the subject does!

It appears according to this experiment that free will is an illusion."

All this says is that there are unconscious aspects to even what you think are conscious decisions, thus resulting in the 6 second delay between the decision and the statement. And remember that as Tom describes the virtual brain as examined in this way, by an MRI scanner for instance, it is a feedback from our true mind within Consciousness Space where the actual thinking process and decision occur. Also, inadequate details are provided to be precisely sure of what is meant, but the 'scientists' know only that a decision is in the works. They cannot, as this is stated, read the decision, just know that the subject is about to reveal one as the quoted statement is actually made. And they have absolutely not implanted the decision within the mind of the subject in some/any way. Is this not a more accurate conclusion from the information presented than that free will is an illusion? It is always important to examine things carefully, logically and above all, accurately, before making deductions. You cannot think imprecisely and reach accurate conclusions.

Ted

Ted, you are right. Some scientists see some changing in colors in monitoring the brain and they come up with BIG CONCLUSIONS.

It is like saying I click on the keyboard and something changes in the computer so then the keyboard is the one that is thinking.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Thank you all for your replies so far - very informative and it's nice to hear alternative explanations. What originally disturbed me was the final conclusion to a very interesting documentary- That free will and self awareness are merely illusory by-products of a complex brain. I've often found with scientific documentaries that they have a nasty habit of ripping the magic out of the very thing they are exploring. BTW the documentary was Horizon-The secret you. BBC2

Kind regards

The magic of reality is better than any secret as I see it. Secrets suck, or actually they pull. As I've learned from my daughter through a grade school science teacher, in this reality thing don't suck or blow, they push or pull instead. Secret pull, therefore. You have Absolute Free Will (AFW) to retain your magic no matter what the scientists still fearful of opening their reality up to the big picture say. I love and am in awe of the bigger picture I see so far, it is a magical feeling. I feel somewhat sad that some will not be able to experience the awe, but realize that is their AFW choice.

The brain and all the other illusions of VR are derived from consciousness, no matter.
Love
Bette

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

I'm not sure who it was, Dr Dean Radin, I am thinking, that has shown with scientific experiment that people respond to ghastly vs pleasant images to be flashed in front of their eyes 6 seconds ahead. Somehow, even though the pics are randomly generated in real time, the subject responds to them 6 seconds before the pics are chosen and selected.

That seems to dovetail with the above time-wise.

Sorry, no link, err, well wait, here
http://books.google.com/books?id=sUM1Hc ... q=&f=false

Thank you for taking the time to find a reference Montana, you're nice. :)

Isn't "calm" an emotion too, seriously?
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

SS:

This video reference you posted is great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnA8GUtXpXY

It shows proof of telepathy. It's funny he talks about what I experience with the cell phone and he said: "We found out that the country with highest % of men having telepathic capabilities was Argentina" and I was born in Argentina.

It also shows ways to practice telepaty.

Good finds, SS, let me know about other interesting links like this.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Dean Radin is the best. He's probably one of the only scientists I know of that actually has shown provable evidence of PSI.
He's a pioneer in his field, that's for sure!

However I still think as Bob Monroe says and Tom mentions some peoples probable choices in certain situations is limited due to the nature of the constructed probability distribution for that moment . Its 100 % sometimes and 1% others. This is my experience anyway.

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Andy Wright