http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101114/ ... 0.606.html

Can someone decipher this please?
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Bette,

Here's the background Maxwell's Demon.

I be back after reading the rest of the link ...

I think the larger point of interest to the MBT model is this:

Thank you RBM. The demon has a temperature, right? Besides the opening and closing creating heat.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

As I recall, the Demon's temperature is irrelevant to the thought experiment.

Ted would be able to give a better reply given this topic was, so to speak, his vocation.

Maybe that was a mistake since it would matter. I'll wait....:)

Thank you.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

This quote touches on something I have said here before:

Vlatko Vedral, ... "I would also be excited to see whether something like this is already at work in nature," he says. "After all, you could say that all living systems are 'Maxwell's demons', trying to defy the tendency for order to turn back into randomness."

That is that what we call life is an entropy reduction force in PMR and that there is a difference between rocks, which follow the normal thermodynamic expectations in nature and trees, plants, bumblebees, and people which go against the principles, for a time at least. This is NOT an attempt to revive the "are trees consciously aware" debate. Just an observation.

Ramon

Thank you Ramon, that is a good observation. That's that "are tree sentient" discussion, correct? :)

I feel what you are saying about plants being living as a living thing is in the entropy reduction business exactly until it dies, which we know means until the stream of Consciousness no longer "goes there", right?

No wait, that's not right. For plants it is until the stream of Consciousness going to the sentient being measuring (seing) the VR plant starts receiving "dead" data to interpret. That would also then possibly mean a sentient being could receive a stream of data interpreted as "dead" towards a not dead VR rendering. That would be freaky. This is a really weird thought, so if you don't get it, it may be a good sign. :)

Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

To All,

At my age and distance from college and grad school and not working at my degree level, I don't know if I have any expert status left any more. The temperature of the demon and any work done by the demon in opening and closing the trap door was not considered. The experiment described in the article first cited is not clear as it is not clear if energy is required to change the voltage field to make the experiment work. I cannot see how energy expenditure would not be involved as it sounds basically like charging and discharging a capacitor where the voltage field being made use of is that between the plates of the capacitor. And I believe that they are saying that in the total system, energy is being dissipated, not created. Only with regards to the 'bead' being raised against the gravitational field is potential energy being 'created'. I had always understood that when life and life processes were involved, the Second Law was violated. And as described in MBT, life as consciousness is information. So life as defined in PMR constantly makes use of information to create energy gradients in violation of the Second Law as I would understand it. Really a Tom problem to describe as his physics is both fresher and far beyond mine.

Ted

I think my point is that they are arbitrarily leaving out a real element, the energy of the closing and opening of the door. It bugs me. :)
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Remember the demon was just a gate keeper between the two reservoirs and it's the state of the gasses in the reservoirs that is at issue.

FWIW, here's a link to a ZPE portal article on the same piece of your original post with some more embedded links -