Don't confuse the model with reality,...Tom said that, or something very similar early in the first book,...he made us repeat it if I recall, and I'm grateful to him for putting that little memory device there. I really like Tom's TOE, it explains more that takes away, it is harmonious, it's logical and orderly without being confining...[side note: I saw the thread on David Icke, and if I may answer here, I like David Icke's TOE because that was how I found Tom's TOE, and therefore while I may disagree with some of what David says,...I owe him and his TOE a big debt of gratitude].

Tom also told us to above all be skeptical,...which is easy to forget sometimes because I really like his TOE,...it's interesting as hell...it made so much more sense than religion, and somehow explained religion,...it was thrilling to watch the world change as I learned more about his TOE,....In fact out of everything he wrote, the only thing that bothered me was these elements of bureaucracy that seemed to pop up in a couple spots....not even as the main point of what he was saying,...but it really made my skin bristle, found the thought to be discouraging,...and so began exploring again,...quit smoking,...quit sugar,....looked up all the acronymns.....meditated more,....read books, videos,...no caffeine,.....more reading,...thought deeply,...chanted....explored fears,......researched......and it almost felt like I was making negative progress,...whatever the hell progress was anyway,...never had an OBE,....really wanted one,.....mediation got boring,....got frustrated and mad even,....almost threw it all back...screw this....blah...blah...

...and then in desperation I made my own TOE, almost as if accident, and thought I had lost my mind...how dare I? I'm not Tom, or David or anyone!....and then, as I was trying determine how I could test if I was crazy,....I got it,...brilliant!

Tom's TOE and every other TOE I had every learned about had done their jobs and I didn't need them anymore, they are after all just models, and not reality,...I think Montana suggested that someone should say Map instead of Mind and Map Instructions or Driving Directions instead of Thoughts,...so Montana, I'd like to thank your TOE too....that was a seriously huge help. Other's too,..this forum is full of treasure.

The cool thing about my TOE is it doesn't really conflict with the TOE's I've studied. It's more like my account of a movie,...my telling you the plot will be different than someone else's because my viewpoint is different. I notice different things,...different things matter to me,....but you could tell what movie I was describing. I hope that this post, as an account of the movie, can help or encourage,...or do some amount of good.

The details of my TOE don't matter as I'm sure that it's not even close to being correct just as I'm sure it doesn't explain much more than my little spot in the sun,...I think it's close enough that I can follow it until I need a newer, more accurate one to answer the questions I haven't even thought of yet.

Exactly, where have you been? Welcome to Tom's MBT discussion site, mdc, I like the way you think. It is a very useful model that makes everything so much clearer for me too. Welcome again.
Love to you and yours,
Bette

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

yeah, reading the map is not driving the journey

somewhere in an office somewhere is mapmaker that has never left his home town! : - )

or the map collector who buys and frames and worships his maps as artifacts....instead of travelling to see the lands represented by the maps

enquiring minds want to know

spill it buster ; - )

[consider yourself metaphysically mugged]

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

mdc,

Such a great post. I wonder if the "between the lines" cliff notes for MBT might look something like:

Let go of fear (work on it).

Open-minded skepticism.

Accept uncertainty.

Honest Introspection (see ego for what it is).

Meditate.

Everybody is doing the best they can.

Evolve (a default effect of the above actions and understandings).

There is nothing about any of the above that I can argue with or dispute. Everything just seems to fall in place on its own through the above ideas. It places the ball in my court. "What is truth? Go ask yourself!"

It seems to me that the above is the core purpose of MBT. Delta - t, PMR, TBC, AUO, AUM, IUOC, TBC, B&N (oh wait, that's a book store) etc... the model itself... may not be so critical aside from being the vehicle to deliver the message.

The reason that I can't stop hanging around here and that I am on my second read of MBT is because as I apply the above concepts I see more of the big picture... and wouldn't you know it, that big picture sure looks a great deal like Tom's model... and a lot like some other models too.

Anyway, great post.

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-"You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find... you get what you need"

Hmm~


What exactly is supposed to be wrong with forming one's own theory?

I don't have a ready link, but I could about swear that Tom explicitly states that his book is HIS theory, that he means to share it, but that the reader MUST evolve his or her own "TOE". If I remember rightly, he implies that it may be different from his. His only recommendation was that you observe and test in a scientific fashion.

I'm speculating, but I imagine that if Tom found out people were out there defaulting to HIS idea of things and setting aside their own exploring / learning process as a result, he would feel a bit nauseous about the fact. On the other hand, some folks are just born followers, and I have to say there is nothing wrong with that either. I'm not, so I guess I was projecting the nausea there. "Born Followers" (again, no disparagement intended.... there may be nothing so pure as the heart of a loyal follower) might be a good topic for another thread.

IMO, anyone wanting to grow should knock out several TOES, to get the feel of exploring, of how it can be done, and to gain the perspective that none should be taken overly seriously.

JMO,

-Montana

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

these are in a separate posting as I could not seem to add more than 3 attachments in one posting

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

I love this. I think this accounts for some of the stumbling blocks we naturally have here at the forum. Too much focus can be put on conforming to (what we think) Toms MBT standard is sometimes, when it is impossible for everyone to share identical realities and experiences. Add the relative anonymity of the internet, and sometimes its hard to connect with people when you can only focus on where you disagree.
Being okay with developing my own big toe catered to my own experience was a crucial fear I've had to, and still have to work to overcome.

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We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment, We are choosing to be here right now. Hold on, stay inside This holy reality, this holy experience. Choosing to be here in This body. - Maynard James Keenan

for myself, I find efficiency in adopting the views and culture of the village I am passing through at the time, conforming to the rules of the senior teacher and village elders, however strange, and then taste the pudding

it is more efficient to roam the countryside tasting pudding than trying to figure out recipes from chemistry.

I revert to my small evolving TOE in the countryside, between villages.

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Thanks, love this post :-) I have since had a change of heart so to speak, and that post makes a lot more sense now. Cheers :-)

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We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment, We are choosing to be here right now. Hold on, stay inside This holy reality, this holy experience. Choosing to be here in This body. - Maynard James Keenan

kroeran,

jordantc's bump brought this thread to my attention.

I am with you on adopting/cultures: One of the most transformative times I've experienced has to do with going to Canada and the baggage I left behind in the US. I felt truly free and even considered moving, but I didn't want to run the risk of turning Canada into the US, so I'll save her for another time.

The benefits to doing this are immense and, I think, one of the most efficient ways to question core beliefs because, to do so, one must temporarily adopt new beliefs structeres. If the new belief structures are kept long enough, one can begin to see the absurdities in those which have been set aside. However, an honest attempt must be made, lest the endeavor become an exercise at constructing and demolishing strawmen.

When I was younger, I worked with a man who was very high-strung and opinionated and with whom I took great pleasure in getting him worked-up. Though we had very similar political views, I would often play the devil's advocate just to watch him and, since my goal was to watch his reactions, I had to argue my points well or we'd just end up agreeing and I wouldn't get my prize. After a few years of doing this, it become clear to me that most of my assumptions on this topic were wrong and it was trivial for me to drop them. In essense, by taking another perspective seriously, I become compassionate to it and could no longer treat it as someone else's folly and maintain that my perspective was of any more value. I think this is one of the primary reasons why the exploration of consciousness is so important: It forces one to, with seriousness and compassion, to consider something one has never seriously considered.

Randy,
so... when your in Rome you do as the Romans? LOL. Me too.
I live in NYC, and NY is such a "melting pot" of different cultures. I've been exposed to many, and I have been emmersed in quite a few. I relate to your "small evolving TOE in the countryside" because I have been doing this all my life. Many of my friends (growing up) would quickly dismiss cultures and people that were "different" from us. Always choosing to stay within the familiar surroundings and familiar peoples where they already "mastered" the belief systems and moral codes of conduct, never looking past the surface to see where we were actually all very much the same.



peace
patrick

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LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

There are several valuable aspects of leaning about a new culture. This is one of most efficient ways to become aware, that differences between cultures are very superficial. I am talking about west, since I've never been to or lived in any oriental culture. I've been to Israel three times, but my visits were too short, to have a good taste of this world. As a result you find the same people, with the same problems, sorrow, happiness, as it was in your old culture. At first it seems, that your old baggage is not good enough, but when years had passed, it becomes obvious, that people in Russia are not too much different, than people in US. Life style is not the same, in general people are more polite, because in general life is easier. Politics and a propaganda styles are dissimilar, but government's aim is pretty much the same.

Feelings, emotions, attachments, fear and etc. are exactly the same. A culture colors them and they might be expressed not exactly the same way, but in its core feelings, emotions, attachments, wishes, fear and the rest of them are absolutely the same. It takes a long time to become aware of this though.

Lena

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'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

Which one would you choose to incarnate in next time?

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

LoL, Randy,
thats a trick question. Honestly, I would have to say the answer is: "Anywhere they have beer and pizza", lol.

I suppose I would choose a place where I would have opportunities to ease suffering, reduce ignorance and fear, and spread love, compassion, joy, and laughter. But I suppose I can do that everywhere.

Anyway, it's not where you go, it's who your with that really matters, no?

Seems that every entity that chooses to incarnate in this PMR is volunteering for a certain amount of pain and suffering, love and loss, and lessons in humility, like we all have our own crucifix waiting for us.

The sayings:
"May you live in interesting times", along with: "may you come to the attention of powerfull people" and: "may all your wishes be granted" come to mind.
~Chinese blessing/curse~

"I'm the one that has to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to."
~Jimi Hendrix~

"March on. Do not tarry. To go forward is to move toward perfection. March on, and fear not the thorns, or the sharp stones on life's path."
~Khalil Gibran ~


peace
patrick

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LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick