This thread had definitely helped me to see why there are arguments in the first place. Its all about preconceived assumptions whatever they might be and firmly sticking with them. It is the exaggeration of the other persons flaws that allows us to feel anger and the exaggeration of their qualities that allows us to feel lust.

thank you... very helpful since I just had and argument with my boss.

Well good, thank you MeClam. It was really irritating me that I am the only one that gets to learn between Claudio and I, that he doesn't change at all. ;) It's good to know and helps assuage my guilt for doing this on Tom's site, to know I'm not the only one learning.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

That is your belief Montana. I am not hot-headed, and I wasn't today, or at least not because of Bette. To be honest I care about other people today. I have my ex going to a judge tomorrow for her possible foreclosure of her house where my daughter leaves. I also have another friend's family that don't have light in their house and are also going to the judge tomorrow because of foreclosure of their house. Experiencing helping people that need help this sunday made me think again of that phrase:

"Choose your battles" or one of mine: "Invest your time wisely".

I am so great, I am so proud of myself :) LOL just affecting myself positively.

Appearances might be deceiving. Somebody acting stupid may be really smart.

Duh duh duh.... hahahaha

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Claudio you chose to ignore this battle, after you had a large part in starting it, because you are scared.

It is fear Claudio, and no matter how much machismo you pretend to have you also have fear. This is the one place that you can allow this fear to come out into the light Claudio. I promise I will say nothing petty if you let what ever it is that you are so scared of come out into the light.

You can't just hit ignore for the rest of this life Claudio. Please hit "listen" instead for this once.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

This is getting so ridiculous. If you keep it at this pace they may accept you in some kindergarten. Bette, don't you have any better useful things to do in your current PMR life? Why do you waste your time so much? Go to whatshouldido.com

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

It's okay Claudio, and they've already accepted both of us in kindergarten. No worries, when the time is right you will know.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Again, your ego trying to put me at your kindergarten level. I exchange posts with Tom (LOL, sorry I just got tempted), can't your little PMR brain understand that? You just make noise like a crying baby. I don't want to spend time babysitting right now. Good night baby.

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

Hi Bette, I started to read this thread and decided to log in to tell you, please don't compare yourself to anybody. When we are unable to stop comparing us to somebody we are loosing our perspective who we are, we become lost in false perception and ideas. We cannot walk on somebody's path here in PMR, even on a big scale we all are one.

We all have ego, this is why we are here, to learn to get rid of our fear and reduce our ego. It does not matter what other people believe about you. Only our intent is important. We are here to learn, sometimes in a very inconvenient way, but it makes us humble and helps to become aware, that we are far from being perfect, as well as others. It helps to step back or aside and take a look at a whole picture. This is Ted's post to me, but I think it can be helpful to you too.



Lena

_________________
'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.

I love this!

A competition of who has the smallest ego... just brilliant!

I'm all fear/ego, I've never denied it, and I know I have a lot of growth in front of me. I'm sad because Claudio can not even say he has ego issues, all he can do is try to be macho. I have ego issues. I've never competed with anybody about it, and I've never claimed to be better than anybody, never would. I do know when I am being talked down to, and I do know when it matters and when it doesn't. I gave Claudio a chance to say, yes, this involves my ego too, but he cannot even do that, I am sad, but I give up. I don't need this, I already know I don't like people blinded like that (that I would prefer people not to ignore the obvious in their behaviors), at a point though one must consider the reality that my children are who get my energy on learning to communicate to help each other grow. Even my children understand growth goes two ways. I have changed since I came here, I communicate with EVERYONE except Claudio better than I used to. That is my experience, that is what I know. Claudio can measure his own change because I don't see it (and it's really none of my business if Claudio needs to take a bath to clean his entropy, whatever that is suppose to mean, he knows as it is his term). I'm just here just like all of us, in this kindergarten that I can admit to being in. See, my ego is there, but I see it, that is the difference, but it is all the same all the time in Claudioland. If You are in some other grade than kindergarten Claudio, let us in on it, what's it like?

I have done nothing but not allow myself to be belittled, if one has to be belittleable to have a smaller ego I'll stick with where I am for now. I have several ideas, some of them good, and I will not be stifled. Been there, done that, and all I got were boundary issues.

Anyone loving this, well, I don't know....
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

On both sides the following can be said. You both are trying to get the other person to agree with your views or to admit to them. In other words, to have the other person say that you are right and to prove them wrong. This is true for every argument that ever existed.

Why is it so important to be correct and show the other person that you are? we have such a desperate need for this that some of us would risk their job just to prove it.

If you are correct Bette (big if) and Claudio does have fear, then you would also know that saying this to him will not change it one bit. Since you can't change his fear, then what are you really after by saying this to him?

Regardless the topic or issue, at the end of the night, what we really want is to be right and for the other person to know it... ego... if this weren't the case you would simply not care.

Bette says she has ego... I say I have ego... we shouldn't care if anyone else says it... end of story... good for us, we are trying to change!!!... Yay!!!

I said I was loving the competition of who has the smallest ego because in order to win you have to loose, in order to be right you need to admit you are wrong... a competition where you are automatically disqualified by being in it... genius!!!

Hi guys:

MeClam: This is not competition. At least, I am not competing.

Lena: Nice to see you back!

Bette: Don't expect me saying things just to satisfy your ego. I am not going to feed your ego. Let it starve to death.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

MeClam:

It is not so important what people say. I didn't start this thread and I don't want to waste too much time on useless things. What is important is what people feel and think, and how do you get affected by things. If you can turn things around and be positive you are in control.

Let's be positive, there are a lot of positive things all reading this can do.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <

How can the previous statement harmonize in the same thread where you threw some verbal stones at Bette? kindergarten is a derogative thing to say. Wouldn't you agree that it would appear that you weren't feeling very happy when you said that to her? Doesn't it seems that Bette's comments have affected you therefore decided to say something mean?

If you believe in your quote and all of those things are important then how does Bette make you feel, think and affects you?... wouldn't the answer be a description of yourself and not hers?

Don't we perceive things to be external to us with inherent existence but the reality is that they are really not out there... isn't that the dream we have to wake up from? isn't my perception of Bette, my boss or anyone else's for that matter a description of myself?

I think it is...

MeClam:

Sometimes we say things when we want a change to happen. I have this thought "if you are OK, don't change it, don't open your mouth. If you want something to change for the better, speak up, do something." I really want this board to be productive. We are in this PMR for training. We shouldn't be wasting too much of our time, and what I say here in this whole post if you really analyze it you will realize that it has nothing to do with ego.

Claudio

_________________
"Every moment can be as good as you want it to be."
"Experience is the ultimate teacher."

> http://soprano.com <