I am interested in getting to the 'bottom' of what is going on with the alien abduction 'phenomena,' especially after discussing the topic with my brother, after he had watched the newly released movie/'documentary' that's called "Alien Abduction of the Fourth Kind" (or something along those lines). Apparently it 'documents' a female psychiatrists experience with her own personal abductions and also clients of hers that claim similar stories. I haven't actually seen the movie/doc myself so I am unfortunately unclear on all the details. But what is going on here? Apparently eleven million people have proclaimed to have had alien abduction experiences according to the 'doc.' Clearly, SOMETHING (whatever it may be [multiple factors may be in play in my opinion]) is going on. I obviously need to do research myself but I was wondering if anyone had concrete ideas about the matter. Personally, I think that too many variables are in play with individuals who claim to have been abducted, particualily psychological variables (psychosis being one and early childhood traumas being another). Apparently, many who have said to have been abducted, are highly suseptible to hypnosis (according to my personal communication with a registered, clinical psychologist). Subsequently, individuals under hypnosis are more 'receptive' to the introduction of false memories into their 'psyche.' After hypnosis, individuals can FEEL and BELIEVE false information and memories (implanted during hynosis) to be real and they may feel completely confident in these memories. And this notion has been proven, one just has to look at the many false accusations and consequent wrongful inprisonments of non-guilty people within the legal system, due to false memories, believed to be true.

Thanks,

Blaine

Hi Blaine,
I think it would be helpful to think of it like this; however we perceive something as happening is how it will gain "feeling" real to us or not. False memories are the perception of something happening one way BECAUSE whatever belief systems that FWAU perceiving the event uses to interpret the event limits the perception and interpretation to whatever belief systems we are under control of. It happens all the time to everyone not COMPLETELY aware of all their personal belief systems, false memories. Implanted memories while being under hypnosis? It wasn't while they were under hypnosis when the event occurred, whatever it was that occurred which was perceived and interpreted as an alien abduction so how could being hypnotized implant that interpretation, do you see what I mean? If so let me know, thank you.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Why? Want to book passage on a Romulan voyage? I'm joking! I have seen the ships more than once, and I have friends who have had very close encounters. I don't really know why they happen, but perhaps someday I will.

Why do you want to know? If you go looking for this truth, you may find it and not like it so much! My friends sure didn't!

On the other hand, the possibility of meeting others from off-world is exciting to me. I already KNOW they are there. What motivates them can only be found by talking with them. Makes for a bit of a dilemma when you can't just go next door and visit with a six-pack. Besides, maybe they are just trying to figure out why we can drink beer and they can't. You never know. Heck I can't tell you why my cat does what he does sometimes and know him!

I know that some people have reached otherworlders in NPMR. That is probably the best bet to finding the answers to your question. If you live near Shasta, there are areas where the Greys hang out and you may be able to contact them. From what I've heard, they aren't bad people. The ships I've seen are reported to be theirs. Same poor souls of the Roswell crash.

_________________
Most people are mostly good most of the time. - the Deefburger assumption of marginal probable personal state.

Hello blaine.

I have seen the movie "The fourth kind" and researched it.

It is 100 % fabricated.

It is hard to be completely sure of what is actually happening during abductions. There appears to be a general fear pattern involved with the experience, which will distort the interpretation of the experience heavily. I do think that "abductions" are not necessarily from a physical source, but that the perceiver just interprets it as that.

I also think that the phenomenon of sleep paralysis is deeply involved with the abduction phenomena. When people are caught in this state between dream and sleep, hallucinations are very common, especially fear based hallucinations.

In short, it is most likely that these abductions are NPMR stuff and only happen in the mind, so to say. Which means they are not physically abducted in the body.

It is possible that this is a PMR phenomena, but it does not make as much sense in its totality then.

It makes sense in either case. The sense of it is the experience. However, psychologically there is no way to tell which one is which. And even then, even if your body is under constant surveillance, and you still have the experience, who is to say that the leaving and the return were observable?

Any time someone tells me this or that couldn't possibly happen, I ask them if they've ever seen a really good magic show.

The experience is real. How it was done is not known by anyone but the magician. So even the most sceptical scientist experiences the demonstration of "the impossible".

Now compare this to someone who is claiming that they were abducted. How can you say they weren't? You don't know what the magician knows, so you can't judge the outcome in any way other than experience. Manufactured experience or not, the truth is that it was observed.

I like to watch Criss Angel work. I know I can't know how he does it unless I can figure out a way to do it myself that is just as convincing if not actually real. But I do know that his demonstrations leave me with more questions than answers. If I believe that what he does is real, so what? There is no other observation available to counter that belief. Same is true for the abductee. There is no other observation available to counter the evidence of the observation.

Personally, I have seen the ships. I don't question the abductee's claims and write it off to psychological hallucination. The possibility of their having been picked up is actually greater in my experience than millions of people having similar hallucinations. Hallucination in a normal individual is less likely than actual experience.

Besides, if the evidence of your experience is telling you something real is happening, and you refuse to accept it as real, then you are creating a belief of disbelief, and can expect the same disastrous results that most false beliefs lead to. Better to take it at face value and go from there, than to assume it is not so and trip over it later.

_________________
Most people are mostly good most of the time. - the Deefburger assumption of marginal probable personal state.

Probably Dr. John Mack (now deceased) is the the premier authority from the establishment on this topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edward_Mack

He has at least one book on the topic.

It is a mind-numbing topic in its complexity.

I have heard some of the folks interviewed by Whitely Streiber (also an abductee, he claims) that if you want to see them, all you have to do is mental broadcast your sincere desire to do so. I haven't tried this yet, myself. But given how things are going on this planet, I just might.

-Montana

I posted about my UFO experience on this BB, with the London Lecture my only knowledge of the MBT. That experience was in '72. I saw John Mack on a panel at a US Psychotronics conference in Milwaukee in '95 (with Dannion Brinkley and others).

I have considered opening myself to further experience per Montana's comment but have not to date as I'm not sure that my Intent is strong enough to create my specific desire. Plus, I'm not sure that there is anything to add to the initial experience.

I've had acquaintances tell me of their experiences. Elderly friends told me they would watch UFO's come and go in a patch of the sky out there back door, back in the day. My most current boss had the UFO-hover-over-his-car-and-the-car-stopped-while-traveling-down-the-highway experience resulting in his wife and kids all scared, many years ago.

If the MBT view is correct, of just tuning into a data stream, then I'd say that offers the best bet of first hand experience.

UFO's used to be important to me, but as I've grown older, I find them to be kind of "oh yes and there is that" sort of thing. It's like knowing there are rockets and jet planes and never seeing one or flying. Some people do, I'm just not one of them.

Your friends car experience is just like my friends car experience and with the same results, SCARED!. Hallucination my patootie! How do you scare the heck out of a four year old who has NO knowlege of such things to hallucinate with, let alone have the same hallucination as her freaked out mom, brother, sister and stopped car! Did the car just hallucinate the engine stopping? I don't think so. I've seen evidence of mass confusion and mass illusion, but never have I seen evidence of mass hallucination, yet that seems to be the argument by professionals who think they know something. Go figure.

As long as they come home safe and sound who cares what really happened? If they come home as meat, then we got a problem!

_________________
Most people are mostly good most of the time. - the Deefburger assumption of marginal probable personal state.

Well that's the rub, pun intended probably, in there being some intelligent beings that can manipulate the physics here well enough to be experienced by so many people. What if we are food to them? I wasn't so much thinking "what if we are food to aliens", but rather what if the entire point of this pmr is to learn not to eat things with Consciousness that you have to kill in order to gain access to their protein; and then the continuing question of, "are all sentient beings "made out of" protein in this PMR? I imagine my next question would depend on that answer, but I think killing is the issue. Back to this topic, but it is all connected as we mostly know, I said somewhere here that "I hope" 2012 is when alien life would be recognized so that humans could realize we are all humans, and the UFO phenomena would "end" with us knowing of some other thing than "human" with as much, or probably more, "power" than us, exists. I suppose I should mention that I hope we aren't dinner if the change in 2012 is common knowledge about this UFO situation. I have friends that have experienced something, some of them here. I've read many accounts mentioned here, I've seen pictures, Polaroids. It is still one of those things that makes one go, "hmm", and I sort of hope there is always at least one of those things around, you know?
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Hi Blaine,

I don't know if the following will be of any use to you

just to set the scene, after a period of some intense meditation which included a kundalini experience I went through a couple of days where during the waking hours I was phasing in and out of NPMR, without meditating at all. Very exciting and exceptionally bizarre.

Apart from experiencing the intense vibrations, that usually come on just before a so called classic OBE while I was making a cup of tea, I could see subtle energetic forms everywhere, and was having what is best described as waking visions. As this was all going on my husband decided to start filming me and got me to describe in detail what I was seeing. My physical eyes were wide open and I was fully conscious and physically experiencing PMR but at the same time fully experiencing another reality frame.

What was going on in this other frame was so very similar to what people who say they have been abducted describe. I was floated horizontally out of my physical body and into a building - all very Egyptian in style - and then floated into a room and put on a table, where I was examined and amongst other things was irradiated with some kind of warm pink light.

Just as a note of interest;
The whole session was so overwhelming that I started to think I'd gone off my head so I requested that my examiner do something to convince me that it was all actually happening and he gave me a name. A few hour later a friend of mine Bob, called me to say that another of my pals Paul had called him to tell him that a 'being' had appeared to him and left his name and said he should contact me, Paul didn't have my number but would Bob pass the message on to me. The name was correct.

Some months later during a period of similar experiences I was again being examined and worked on by several 'beings'

Also, during a sessions at The Monroe Institute similar experiences happened to myself and others and I have certainly seen the little grey chaps with the big pupil-less eyes whilst in altered states.

Anthropologists have documented that even tribes that have no connection to the outside world have similar experiences.

What to make of it all.

I think that I have presumed that the abductions are some kind of metaphor for an NPMR experience but I don't have much insight into it save that I have changed my perspective over and over again until I found MBT. Hmmm. If I really think about it I am wondering if its guides working on us in some way, would anyone care to comment on that?

One more thing that may be of interest Blaine.

My dog wanted out at around 5am one morning, very unusual and I took him into the garden. There was the strangest atmosphere and as I looked up a the tip of some huge flying thing was slowly passing about 200feet above my house. As it passed over I could see that it was an enormous black triangle. No lights, no visible markings, no noise. I a was completely stunned, I didn't run for the camera or to wake my husband because I thought it may just disappear and so I just stood there with the dog looking at it. We lived in the countryside in Wiltshire in the UK and as this thing passed right over and was flying across the field I could really see how huge it was, I'm guessing it was about covering about an acre.

I wasn't dreaming and I don't sleep walk.

The thing is that I don't at all remember going back into the house, I woke up around 9am - much later than usual - on the sofa in the Kitchen, the door to the garden was open and when I looked outside the stones around the garden path were all disturbed. Unfortunately I don't have the ability, yet, to look at a historical data stream at will so until I can do that I won't know what happened, but as Wiltshire has many many such sightings and with the crop circle phenomenon lots of people are interested in such matters, I was asked if I thought I had been abducted. The truth is I just have no idea. This all happened about 15 years ago and since then so many have reported seeing these huge flying black triangles that I have supposed that they are from earth but classified. As yet I have no way of telling and not as much interest now as I once had.

However, for what it's worth, I was interviewed by Reg Presley in the UK who has talked to abductees from all over the world and he said that he thought that I had been abducted.

Have you read Rick Strassmans book, DMT; The Spirit Molecule, you may find it very interesting also check the site for a synopsis.

http://thespiritmolecule.com/film.html

As I say I don't have much interest anymore. MBT seems to be all consuming at present!!

_________________
Love is the answer!

I find this part in the article interesting:

"His interest in the spiritual or transformational aspects of people's alien encounters, and his suggestion that the experience of alien contact itself may be more spiritual than physical in nature—yet nonetheless real—set him apart from many of his contemporaries, such as Budd Hopkins, who advocated the physical reality of aliens."



If my body is under constant surveillance, but is still there while I have the experience it is clear that we are dealing with a NPMR phenomena. It doesn't detract anything from the experience, it does not make it less real, it simply is.



The experience is real, but the source of the experience is what I am questioning.



Observed yes, I have never said otherwise?



I have seen his work, but you cannot compare a magicians work to what an abductee tells in terms of evidence.

You don't need "other observations to counter that belief", simple logic, reason and knowledge of mind tricks and illusions are needed. You actually SEE what is going on, though you don't see everything. But with an abductee YOU SEE NOTHING, only what is being communicated through language. You are not part of the experience, but in a magic trick you are.



First, there is a big difference from seeing ships in the sky to being abducted by them.

Secondly, I have never stated that ALL abductions are hallucinations, but some ought to be. Hell, you can have very vivid nightmare and think it was an non-internal experience.

Steve answers very well in the link RMB gave.

"RBM,

I have had 3 UFO experiences myself, I agree that there are both PMR and NPMR elements at work.
Once you had read further into MBT, a few concepts will help to explain the UFO phenomenon.

My thoughts are that a large part of these experiences can be explained by our consciousness processing
data from another reality frame (dimension) simultaneously with our own. For a moment they intertwine, or overlap , like
picture in picture, from our viewpoint.

They both seem real and present in the same reality and one would be hard pressed to tell the difference that what they are experiencing is not really existing here in our PMR but a glimpse into their reality.

However, these beings could be projecting themselves from their own reality, exploring and interacting if they wish. That would explain the more non-physical type of experiences and sightings where UFO's seem to take on an ethereal form and pop in and out of our space instead of fly away. Or maybe the person or persons having the experience lose focus and the UFO suddenly vanishes. This would all seem to be explained by shifts in our consciousness awareness or the ability to parallel process two realities at the same time.

However, the other side is that if we are not the only reality but only one of many and they are all teeming with life of all kinds and no one reality is fundamental but all relative to our viewpoint, then it is not too much of a stretch of the imagination to assume we are not the only life in this reality as well."

It is all about data streams, what you perceive is just a data input. That data input can be changed, by shifting the focus to another "channel". It seems very plausible to me, that one can get two data streams simultaneously while in the waking state, the two realities bleed through into one perceived. It doesn't mean it's not real!! The interpretation is just not perfectly accurate, the profoundness and significance of the experience is no less!



Apparently you interpreted my statement that sleep paralysis is significant in this area to "It's all hallucination". I was specifically talking about ABDUCTIONS from the bed, not seeing UFO's or in sky or over ones car. I neither believe that all abductions are hallucinations (this term is not precise in this context, internal data stream is more precise), far from.

I don't doubt that people have seen UFO's which are some kind of alien spacecraft, the data input can probably either be PMR or NPMR, per individual case.

Very interesting experiences daghda! :)

The examining part is interesting, because it seems to be a "standard procedure". If my memory is correct, one of the subjects in one of the explorer tapes is taken by non-human beings and then examined and worked on. She could communicate with them and they were trying to help her, something about adjusting her vibrations (metaphor) and cleansing I think. I don't remember the tape #, anyone?

Wow! great discussion people! Look at all of this experience! I think that perhaps some of what we have experienced is as it was perceived. I think that some of what we have experienced is interpreted through the language of visual thoughtand may or may not have been physical but rather implied in the message. I know that I have seen the triangular ships. So did Pheonix. Look up the Phoenix lights. Those ships or forms or whatever were caught on film all over the world that year.

Regardless of whether the ships were real or not, the experiences of people have been consistent. Some of that consistency will be inductive, but some of it will be pre determined by the pre existence of the real thing. We cannot be sure at any given time in the VR which is which. What we can be sure of is the content of the information transmitted to our experience.

The fact of the content of experience, whether it be abduction or ghosts or whatever, the fact of it's consistency of form is indisputable. That is the essence of the information. Some message about the PMR, some information about its true nature, is being revealed within our conscious experience. I have seen what I have seen. I don't give a rat's patootie what any body else thinks it is or isn't, ultimately. It was my experience in the PMR. That valid veiwpoint is unique in all of AUM. To me, and to AUM, it is absolutely objective. But only us two. To the rest of you, everyone else the observation is subjective. Your point of view is a guess.

_________________
Most people are mostly good most of the time. - the Deefburger assumption of marginal probable personal state.

You must all keep the virtual nature of PMR in mind at all times. Remember that those triangular ships that you 'see' up in the sky are a result of the incoming data stream that you are interpreting. Remember that their passengers, presuming that there are passengers, are also virtual, existing as you do as IUOCs on the RWW and experiencing looking out of their 'portholes' on the earth below by their interpretation of their own personalized incoming data stream from TBC. Whatever they 'look' like, perhaps little gray humanoid forms, they are actually just like you as IUOCs.

I have experienced an examination and treatment within Consciousness Space during my recent illnesses. But that illness of PMR and my knowledge of MBT was my context for interpreting that experience. Thus I perceived it as a treatment by my guides or specialists as protection for specific aspects of my then health problems. Someone with a fascination with extraterrestrials, from fear or more positive reasons, may well interpret the same experiences as being abducted and examined. I have a friend who sees ghosts. When with her, I have seen what she describes as a ghost and with details of appearance but to me, they were just moving shadows with no detail, probably attributable to moonlight through overhead tree branches with moving clouds. There was definitely something to see, but precisely what was a matter of interpretation.

Context, including your internal predilections, determines your interpretation of experience, in both NPMR and PMR.

Ted

I also belive that ufo may very well be something that is created in our mind, at least something that we don´t understand and interpret in our own way.

I read an interesting article that said that ufo phenonema began about the same time as the first stories of ufo´s surfaced. Before that people claimed to see strange beings in the woods, such as elves and other mythical creatures but none ever mentioned ufos or aliens. Maybe what we see reflects what time we live in.

/Karl