I have brought up the issue of circumstances that seem like the physical outweighs the nonphysical (namely my own battle with "chronic fatigue"), but I still can't get my head around it. I watched a TED video a while back where the speaker was saying there is a definite sign of brain damage in the truly psychopathic.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jim_fallon_exp ... iller.html

He said it was 2 stipulations that would bring about a psychopath: 1. genetics, 2. a traumatic childhood event. So when a psychopath undergoes this event which acts as a catalyst for the severe inhibition of serotonin reuptake, which results in brain damage that seems to destroy their capacity for empathy. So does this not throw off their whole sense of balance and tend their free will toward violence and selfishness? I know Tom doesn't really speak of karma, but are there karmic repercussions for the insane? Is entropy not massively dictated by a malfunctioning brain?

Also, as a side note, what about mentally challenged people? Are they less evolved or just in a low capacity body? If it is the latter, how is such an experience beneficial to someone who has also lived normal lives in the past? Why would you send an accelerated student to a remedial class?

watcher,

If you accept that PMR is a virtual reality, a simulation of physicality via a rule set, then what you have is the simulation of anything, any aspect of the VR, via the incoming data stream into your 'self' over the RWW. Whether you are talking CFS or retardation or autism or psychosis, you are probably dealing with a virtual aspect of experience. In terms of CFS, this seems highly probable as it makes no sense for such a trait based upon physicality, and fatigue would be such, to exist within a digital consciousness. There is a bell curve related to intellectual capacity for those IUOCs incarnating here, so there can also be a matter of the lower functionality end of the bell curve to also participate in the existence of so called mental retardation here in PMR. Autism, whether based upon the 'not from here' syndrome or upon some functional aspect of the participating IUOC, can also participate in the existence of the autism syndrome. I would say that PMR science has not fully understood autism as yet and is in the process of a rethinking of the syndrome. Psychosis can also be the result of a participating IUOC with a badly functioning neural net set up as it exists within Consciousness Space. We cannot be sure of the sources of these malfunctions compared to the norm.

Tom has discussed in the past how the neurology as expressed within the human PMR brain, if observed in detail here, represents a feedback from the state existing within Consciousness Space. This would include both the state as existing within the neural net of the participating IUOC and any modifications to the data stream as created by the Virtual Reality Rendering Engine in it's creation of the PMR VR experience via the rule set including any specific modifications to create any handicaps to be experienced by that IUOC. The entropy level based upon which you function here in PMR is that existing within yourself as the participating IUOC. Neither mental illness nor any of these mentioned problems generates increased entropy automatically. Deal with an affliction badly and interact badly in relation to others and you have at least some tendency toward entropy increase. It is more probable that pre existing high entropy produces high entropy behavior however than that an affliction of some kind would do so. And again as explained by Tom, there is a buffering effect so that a PMR experience with a substantial affliction does not automatically wipe out past gains. How you behave and interact can still produce little to no negative effect outside of this PMR experience. It is a chance that one takes in order to potentially gain the great value that can result from successfully navigating a very difficult PMR experience.

Ted

I have read your post a couple times and am still somewhat unclear of what you are saying. Are you saying cfs originates at a nonphysical level and presents here? Retarded people are IUOC's of lower intelligence? Neural net as in the physical brain, right?

I would be interested in Tom's comments on that. So brain damage is a result of something happening outside of PMR? I am very unclear of what you are saying the the second paragraph, so I don't know where to start. If your brain is damaged in areas that deal with empathy, your decisions will be made on a completely different basis, or be unable to make many decisions at all, depending on what kind of brain damage it is. Are you saying that has no affect on your entropy level? All that comes from you UOIC, so when you die, you're still F'ed?

Sorry if I totally misinterpreted your post, but I did not understand most of what you were saying.

I think what goes on in many cases of disability or mental disease is that the part of the disabled person is taken on by a fully functioning bit of consciousness that has a data stream coming into this packet required to manifest the disability. There is nothing wrong with that bit of consciousness, the data implies the functionality, and if anyone looks, the wiring will appear like those looking would expect it to look. That would be in functional MRI or autopsy pehaps.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

watcher,

You asked: "Are you saying cfs originates at a nonphysical level and presents here?"
My answer: Yes, for the reasons explained.

You asked: "Retarded people are IUOC's of lower intelligence?"
My answer: Yes and no. I said that it could be either that or a function of the set up of our virtual self to experience PMR and the VRRE that puts the details on our experience via our incoming data stream that generates our PMR experience. It depends upon the IUOC. An IUOC that normally functions at a high level of what we here in PMR refer to as intelligence can still experience the effects of operating at a lower level of capability. That is the virtual aspect of the PMR virtual self. Your interface to and ability to function during an incarnation can be reduced for the purpose of experiencing a life with reduced functionality to a subset of the full functionality of the IUOC. That, and the appropriate modification of the incoming data stream generating the experience can result in the experience of functioning with lower intelligence during an experience packet.

You asked: "Neural net as in the physical brain, right?"
My answer: The digital nature of our existence as IUOCs within Consciousness Space has been discussed here. A neural net as studied and discussed in PMR science is a probable model for our state of existence as a digital individuated consciousness. All of this is discussed in numerous posts on the BB.

You asked: "So brain damage is a result of something happening outside of PMR?"
My answer: Yes. It has been discussed several times here on the BB, including by Tom, who specifically stated that the PMR brain, when observed in detail, represents a feed back from the state of our IUOC in Consciousness Space, the rule set defining PMR and the details of any limitations placed upon the experience of that IUOC here in PMR as set up by the simulation of PMR as a data stream presented to our IUOC to create the virtual reality experience of PMR. That is the way that a VR works/is defined. In a virtual reality, what you observe here in PMR is based upon an incoming data stream, not the physicality that you perceive 'around you'. It is a simulation. There is no true 'out there'. There are again extensive discussions of this. To go into it in more depth here would represent a repetition of much that has been said elsewhere. You need more background information for all of this to make sense. I suggest that you go to this thread and look at the threads linked from there. viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3572

You asked: "Are you saying that has no affect on your entropy level?"
My answer: No but partially so. I am not saying that such a life has no effect on our entropy level. It makes for a difficult life experience for the participating IUOC, but remember that this as a virtual experience is not your sole existence. It is just that, an experience. One out of thousands of PMR lives experienced by you as an IUOC which will be assimilated and buffered by much other experience and our nature as an IUOC so that it need not all result in a great increase of entropy by our IUOC. But the major part of entropy increase results from a poor quality of reaction and interaction with others during a PMR experience packet. Not just from have a difficult experience/hard life. If you handle the difficulties well, then there is potentially a great deal to gain from the experience and such lives are not avoided by experienced IUOCs who wish to make a rapid advancement in their Quality of Consciousness.

You need additional reading around on the forums. I suggest that you start with the 'best' threads forum in the third section of the index page. I knew that I was answering your initial post at a relatively high level, but I saw no way to answer it a simpler level and making any more sense that way.

Ted

so, I guess to bring it out of the cold and a little more personalized, how do you fix a problem like cfs if it is a modification outside of PMR? Faith healing? Why do so many limiting modifications get added with age?

By the way, cfs seems to be highly linked to gut issues, especially in my case where bloating and reflux is a major issue. But science has shown a closer link to SIBO and intestinal yeast with cfs and fibromyalgia than with ibs. So if not causal, the intestinal ecology is at least highly correlated. And the impact cfs has on my decisions and relationships is extremely negative. Try not sleeping for 3 days and see if you are not irritable. That is about how I feel all the time.

watcher,

Try adding yogurt to your diet in multiple varieties with a range of bacterial cultures. Make sure that they are active cultures. I see brands advertised on TV lately because of the activity of their cultures. This is not the only old ethnic food based upon bacterial culturing either. Also add fiber to your diet with more cereal grains like oatmeal and oat bran. Oat bran can be added to many if not most foods and result in a smoother and creamier food in which the oat bran is not left in the final taste. Flax seed meal also blends in well and adds omega 3 fatty acids. Vitamin C might help with stress as well and investigate other vitamin supplements as potentially beneficial. Over time the more beneficial bacteria become predominant and the fiber carries off the excess bacteria and aids in the transition to a better mix in the internal culture. Our functioning was clearly intended to include substantial grains and high fiber in our diet. You can keep cholesterol down with fiber instead of statin medications. It is carried away as excess bile salt attached to the fiber. High levels of friendly bacteria along with the effects of fiber on removal will also help with the yeast problem. Remember the old saw, when in Rome, do what the Romans do. You are in PMR and the rule set dictates the optimum path through your life.

Remember that no one gets out of here alive. It is part of the rule set which, having included birth, also includes aging and death. That is part of what makes it PMR. PMR is high intensity and short term, a limited experience as opposed to NPMR which is continuous.

Ted

...well, you are pretty well versed in some digestive health stuff, but none of that stuff has been very helpful for me, not to mention I can't tolerate dairy(casein not lactose).

But anyway, I know this isn't a health forum. So once again I have failed to find any real practical applications of this nonphysical knowledge. Despite my efforts to get out of body over the past few years, I still spend my life in PMR, and in an abnormal amount of dreams(mostly bad), so all this conversation remains a representation in my imagination. I have spent a few hours reading around this forum, but so far, responses seem to add undue complexity to questions and problems with no real answers or solutions. I find this disappointing. Maybe I am alone in this, but all this information seems damn near useless to me.

thanks

Are you "just" tired and irritable, or do you also have pain? If yes, how is it, the pain, when, where, like that. Not to be medical or anything, but I just think talking about it may bring something out into the light that may help you or someone else. What emotion(s) is/are attached to your symptoms?
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Watcher,

My suggestions above were entirely PMR based, originating with bacteria opposing yeast overgrowth to eliminate an imbalance. There has been help with healing given here before and that amounts to entirely non physical Intent that you get better.

Are those of you who have helped before, are experienced in this practice, willing to help watchthesun by visualizing his problems and Intending that they be healed/ameliorated. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome will not likely show to visualization as specific as to locality. It would be an interesting project and clearly of value to our new member, watchthesun.

Thank you all for your help.

Ted

If watchthesun is openly willing, so am I. As usual, all I have is love to send, I just think loving thoughts of joy @ whomever, although others really have good focus. It is up to you to say, sure, go for it, or no as your Free Will choice.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

This seems like a good place for this to drop. Something I found, or that found me, I'm not sure, concerning stuff I am concerned with, The Dyslogic Syndrome. http://www.crimetimes.org/07d/w07dp7.htm
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

This is a pretty good example of what I was talking about. If these kids honestly do have a hard time making the logical connection between actions and their repercussions, are they not bound to do more damage than intended to themselves and others?

Watcher,

By your last comment, you still are not putting together all that has been said here. To quote you:
"This is a pretty good example of what I was talking about. If these kids honestly do have a hard time making the logical connection between actions and their repercussions, are they not bound to do more damage than intended to themselves and others?"
You state this in reference to children with the Dyslogic Syndrome.

As has been explained, although briefly I know, this is a beginners PMR and with difficult, intense interactions, because it has so many beginner level IUOCs participating. The presence of so many beginners creates the difficulties. It is not a matter that the difficulties exist here so it is decided to stick the beginners in here to deal with it. Putting the least able to deal with the difficulties into the position of having to do just that. Beginners are going to have that problem no matter where they are. It has also been explained that difficult and intense interactions have the most ability to improve the Quality of Consciousness of participating FWAUs. This is just the way that things work, not something that is being 'done to' the beginners for some evil purpose.

Another aspect of your misunderstanding of the situation as explained is that this is a Virtual Reality and as such, the damage is also virtual and neither permanent nor real in the sense that the true existence of the self, the mind, of the participants is damaged. Going through the interactions of the VR is what trains the neural nets of the IUOCs participating so that their faulty logic is corrected. Again, this is the way that these things work. The VR experience is being provided for the express purpose of creating the interactions that can result in the healing of the Dyslogic Syndrome. Interactions coupled with rapid feedback to point out the nature of the errors being made.

The question of your interest and willingness to be a subject of attempts to heal or at least improve your condition was raised. If you will respond, you can be put on a list that is maintained now of those needing and requesting the benefit of such help for the convenience of those who wish to provide such help. To again quote you, "So once again I have failed to find any real practical applications of this nonphysical knowledge." I think that practical applications have been found and are being offered, you are just rejecting the offer.

You really need to do more reading around and particularly, the My Big TOE books before you reject this whole class of knowledge as unhelpful. You don't really understand what is going on yet. I think perhaps you want something more simple than this VR provides like 'take two aspirin and call back in the morning'. Knowledge can help but it must reach the being level where it is effectively an interaction, not just intellectual information. You have not at present even reached the level where you have taken this in as intellectual knowledge. Give it some more, sufficient, time and effort or it will be a waste of time in fact.

Ted

My understanding is that any evolving form,where it can choose, it can learn from results. If a geranium tries to make roots in the air, leaves in the soil, or face its surfaces away from sunlight, results are not good, so it stops doing that in favor of doing something that gets less undesirable, or better yet, desirable results.

It could well be that a person incarnates as 'retarded' and or 'autistic' for a variety of reasons. One would be to focus non-symbolic, non-left-brainy relationships to milieu. A second would be to avoid the noise resulting from the custody of understanding the current social mores and customs: If I can't seem to understand what Paris Hilton is doing these days, mercifully, no one shall expect me to partake in a conversation about it!

Too, occasionally, it seems that a person has dealt another a form of affliction in another time and place, and as part of the educational process, one then goes on to experience for himself the effects from the point of view of the victim. For instance, a baroness may once have been supercilious and arbitrary with her servants whom, now in this life, are her employers, and she must bear with their relative ineptitudes.

Yet again, I can easily imagine that an entity coming to the realms of form and physicality for the very first time could have enormous problems even making the body do anything intentionally. 'Form' is extremely exotic if you have never been exposed to it before. Probably most first timers in the physical start with something less complex, like an insect or a sea creature. But some may be advanced enough to take a first fling as human, but this is speculation on my part.

And on and on....

But all that said, while I know that some say that 'everything happens for a purpose', I am not entirely convinced of that idea. This is a very noisy (in the sense of 'lots of stray information, structure and activity') world, and trying to execute even well laid plans can be like trying to hum a Mozart melody during a KISS concert.

-Montana

Well, wait a minute, here. Now, your first post in this sequence had to do with malaise or depression, if I recall. Yes, chemistry can affect the physical psyche; bodies are made of chemicals, whether they are 'real' chemicals or 'simulated' chemicals is maybe not a helpful distinction here.

However, the data seems to indicate that belief can trump chemistry and biology both: The placebo effect is established to the point of certainty. So there, at least, is access to one out.

My personal experience is that depression and malaise manifest when I am not doing something right, or failing to do something at all. If a person follows his deepest convictions, doing that generally facilitates piles of energy and enthusiasm. If a person is following the wrong path, however well meaning he and anyone else involved may be, energy drains away. Once, when I had been involved for too long in a life experience set that was not helpful or necessary, I literally had to stop walking.... I could not walk all the way across a horse pasture that I had been all over a million times. I just sat down, then lay down, seemingly unable to do anything more. But it was my 'body' or 'being' saying: "Enough of this. This isn't working. Time to move on." Had I had medical tests done I would bet that they would have come back with suggestions of some bizarre form of ailment or disfunction. For the most part I don't hold with 'modern medicine' much.... for approximately the reason that I would be wary of an automechanic whose vehicles were always manifesting mechanical problems.

Just pay attention to your world: What excites you, gives you energy, propells you with enthusiasm? Focus on those things, and that will help.