I haven't been around in a while, it's good to be back. I have a few questions I hope you guys can help me with.
My questions have to do with dreams, and what exactly is going on during them. I am trying to get a VERY detailed understanding of the process of dreaming from the perspective of the larger picture. So if any of you have some insight, please be as detailed as possible in your descriptions. It would be a huge help for me!!
Hello theprodigy, those are some good questions. I have myself gone through the same phase trying to answer these questions.
This is the most important part for you to understand.
Many, if not most lucid dreamers, OBE folks, and Astral Projectors describe and interpret their experience based on the limited perspective
of PMR being an objective reality, existing in itself. The consequence of this is the belief that the body
is at the centre of consciousness. They believe that they are actually going out of body
, and that they are experiencing and objective reality. They are not.
For now, forget everything about these beliefs in astral bodies and astral brains and such.. or more presicely, you do not need to forget it, but let it not impede your progress. You need to detach yourself from these beliefs, as they will
make understanding the reality of NPMR difficult, and it is not that easy to begin with.
Ramon gave some good links, but I know there are many more threads, and posts by Tom relevant to your questions.
From the second link:
"Relv: Why do you think dreams, especially lucid dreams, have such a different nature from OBE's ?"Tom: "They are fundamentally very similar. The main differences are generated by nature of the entry (from uninterrupted awareness or from unconsciousness) and the nature of belief attached to each entry process."
I cannot stress enough how much the underlined part is important. This belief that so many have (including myself to recently) is severely limiting the potential of exploration. This is one of the reasons so few have ever gone beyond OBE and LD. Lucid dreaming is the playground, and OBE is the backyard.. nothing more. The only "big" difference between LD'ing and the OBE is that the inbuilt belief and assumptions support a greater occurrence of overlaying data streams in the perceived environment. Meaning that one in the OBE state can expect a slightly higher chance of experiencing external input overlaying the natural internally generated reality.
When out of body, what does someone asleep and dreaming look like? If I were to have an OBE and float to my friends house and see him asleep and dreaming, what would I see?
There are extremely many variables in the answer for this question. Remember that it's a subjective experience, based on your prior experience and current beliefs. Your interpretation of your experience will be largely affected by this. The largest obstacle for this ideal scenario would being actually experiencing external data, and not completely internal data based on fantasy. It is by my understanding so far, actually not an easy task to get this external and
verifiable data based on PMR. In the situation that you would be getting actual external data, what you would see would be mostly up to you, meaning your intent would guide your view.
As far as I can tell at this point, I think what I would see is his physical body lying in bed, and his astral body floating a few feet above him. But what would his astral body be doing? Some say there is a "haze" or "mist" that kind of forms a "shell" around the astral body during sleep... Does the astral body mimick the position of the physical body? If he is curled up in the fetal position laying on his side with his hands forming a pillow under his head... Will his astral body be doing the same thing, only a few feet above his head? Im looking for a detailed description of what this typically looks like.
Again, many of these kinds of descriptions are not without the personal and unique signature of the person having this experience, it is still a subjective experience. There can be many expressions of the same meaning in NPMR, so whatever the description contain, it will likely just be one expression
of this possible phenomenon. What you are seeking is really some kind of objective and true description of this, but more often than not, it's not possible. To be more concrete, I haven't experienced this situation, but I do not see the logic in some "astral body" floating above a sleeping body, when the person is dreaming. If the astral body would be a representation of his consciousness, why would it be inactive above his body while he is actively engaged in a dream?
The dreams worlds and dream characters we perceive when we dream... are the worlds produced by the physical and etheric brain? Or is this all produced by the astral body projecting thoughts?
For instance, I am wondering.... When we have a dream body, is this actually our astral body? Is our astral body wondering around the astral realms and are we painting everything we bump into with our own thoughts and imagination? Are we walking around like zombies in the astral world and dreaming up dramas? Or is it just that our physical brain is projecting random thoughts? If this is true, then what is our astral body doing? Is it sleeping too? As you can see i'm very confused about this...
The dream worlds and characters are not produced
by any brain or astral body, but simply consciousness. But
, the physical and virtual brain do still impose certain constrains on ones mind while dreaming, one is not separated (not spatially, in mind-space!) completely by the brain while dreaming.
When we become lucid in a dream, what specifically takes place?
Is it just that we are in our physical brain, and becoming aware of the passing images? Is it that we are in our astral brain and becoming aware of the passing images? Or will we find ourself standing in the astral plane somewhere and have been dreaming we were somewhere else?
I can't see how would explain this mechanistically, as the neurological equal would be below consciousness in the causal hierarchy and feedback loop. However, it would be interesting to know what precisely takes place in the physical brain as the brain is a representation of consciousness, an expression. One could find functional links between the state of the brain and mind. I know a little research of this already exists. There are many different ways of getting to lucidity. What is sure though, is that the commonality of getting lucid lies in awareness
. The preceding causes of this change in awareness are many and plentiful. At a certain point, the awareness allows the realization that one is dreaming.
When we become Lucid in a dream, and change it into an OBE, what specifically is taking place?
For instance if I am lucid in a dream, and I use a technique I learned to fly straight up in order to induce an OBE... Will I really be flying straight up in the AStral Plane? Or will I wake up to find myself floating a few feet above my bed?
(also if you have any tips on how to go from lucid dream to OBE please feel free to share those)
I have myself been lucid before, and tried to go "out of body". Fortunately, I did not waste many opportunities on this, as I eventually understood that trying to go "out of body" was truly absurd. You are not in
the body to begin with!
My current undertaking is figuring out how
to transcend the playground and backyard state of consciousness. Getting from the personal reality of the lucid dream to the shared reality (part) of NPMR. This will be one of my questions in the upcoming fireside chat.