[quote="MojiDoji"]Ted's advice is sound. Think of PTSD as a sort of brain damage (as in physical damage); would you not repair the damage if possible? If your mission is to live your life, how can it be accomplished when an essential piece of equipment is malfunctioning? If you do some research, I think you will find control issues during meditation are common, but not everyone percieves it that way. Since a large part of success in meditation is not forcing thoughts from the mind, but letting them go, we can infer that lack of thought control is the rule rather than the exception.

I'm a Desert Storm veteran and I know what you are going through - time will heal and you need to make it through that time without it being charlie foxtrot. I'm pulling for you.[/quote]

Wow. Thank you much dude.

Thank you for your service. And thank you for the wise words.

I think another piece of the mental health puzzle is to resist as much as possible letting your internal emotional state flow over or interfere with practical commitments...ie. getting out of bed, getting into work, ...or triggering vice (short term fixes that harm you longer term), which trigger a downward spiral and perhaps adding an addiction to your set of challenges.

This requires willpower, as much as you can muster. So that is damage control.

The other side of it is be open to taking on new activities and thought patterns that might address part of the core issue. Deployment changed your fundamental nature...so I would ask myself if the operating system that you inherited from your background is adequate to process this change and support you with your new expanded awareness of the sometimes brutal nature of reality.

I am also wondering how you were psychologically on deployment. Is it possible that deployment was ultra-real, and the artificiality of middle class America feels unreal (well, indeed it is). Do you miss the social and experiential intensity of the experience? Are you lonely and or bored? Are there any activities that you currently do that give you relief? Is there something you need to foregive yourself for?

Father of a girl I dated was a pilot in WWII. He got acclimated to a very intense lifestyle during the war, and the only way he could feel comfortable in peacetime was in high stakes commission work...commercial real estate, where he would sell a building once every couple of years..and they would go from famine to feast. Or maybe what you need is to get back to Iraq, or some sort of overseas work that is externally challenging to your psyche.

Another idea to throw in the pot is to drop yourself into a religious discipline for a period, as an experiment, perhaps a traditional buddhist or Catholic group in your area, see if you can pick up a few tricks on self-mind control from them. That is what worked for me when I was younger and could not control my emotions on my own. Oh yeah, and music (guitar and piano). And travel.

And through all that struggle, continuing to invest in the future...education, career - the worse I felt, the harder I worked, with the thought...I will at least have something so show for those unhappy years once I figure out how to be "happy" - and thats how it worked out for me.

Just throwing this stuff in the pot for consideration.

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

my personal observation, which may be limited, is that people overweight the importance of childhood background, and misidentify causality where there is none.

people with perfect backgrounds largely have the same stress of life as everyone else, except that they don't have the excuse of bad parents.

apart from a highly variable general genetic disposition to dourness which sets a range of potential, most people settle into a personality in their 20s and that becomes who they are. Unhappiness is their hobby.

then there is obstinancy - most unhappy or depressed people get attached to certain values or lifestyles, and can't imagine that their problem is something as simple as a change in diet (or supplements) or could be solved by joining that club their neighbour or collegue is urging them to come out for - a friend who's dad was head of psychiatric department of a hospital said that social isolation magnifies pathology...so this guy, who had challenges, was a social machine - the guy always organizing things.

when I see people doing wacky sports or hobbies, I think, there is a person who would be depressed, except for the fact that they were uninhibited enough to break out of "normal" behavior

this of course can be overdone, when inhibition becomes flakyness and carries into dropping out of school, work, marriage

the sweet spot I believe is to lock down hard on education, career, marriage, money - and be a total dilletante with everything else...at least, thats what worked for me

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

All of this is just "experiences" that we knew were probably going to occur coming into this. There was always the possibility the experiences which made life less boring, less average, would occur, but (and this is a big but) there was also the possibility that the IUOC playing the "bad guy/gal" would chose not to be a jerk thereby growing in Quality of Consciousness. You make your entrance into the life, and you take your chances. It is all just experience though.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

yes, maybe there is a point where PMR efficiency can rise to the point of entropy in the broader picture and learning slows down - though health and relationships continue as challenges, even for the rich person

Siddartha walked away from his comfortable life, which I presume was part of this need to shake things up and get out of the protective cocoon of wealth and privalege if you find yourself stuck there.

The Nazarene told the rich man that if he wished to accelerate his progress beyond the usual ten commandments level of constraint, he should sell all his possessions and give the money to the poor - which is an interesting datapoint to ponder

The emerging life of Mrs. Bill Gates, a practising Catholic, is an intriguing case study of the interaction of wealth and quality of consciousness. I get a certain tingling up my leg so to speak when I hear certain people speak on the tele....and I have to add her to that list.

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

A request: Please, everyone, let's stay on topic. Lisa :-)

What do you insist the topic be Lisa?
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

I know it is a stretch, but I guess the theme of my rantings is that when faced with severe distress in my late teen years, I chose to reject medication (probably ego) and rather followed the path of discipline, work, adventure, music and religion, and for most of my fellow travellors in this regard, things worked out pretty well.

I can't say the same for the people I knew that chose the psychiatry route. For the organic path to work, you have to be able to find the discipline to get out of bed and do what needs to get done, regardless of how bad you feel...and when you can't....

You have to be uninhibited enough to pursue adventure...which for me was hitchhiking all over North American starting at age 16. I dropped out of and went back to school 5 or 6 times.

You have to be open to picking up a musical instrument and learning it (a necessity), and be open to learning the tools that have been developed over thousands of years by the senior religions (Buddhism and Catholicism).

A pathology in any one of these things will block your path and send you into psychiatry.

that being said, dropping your meds suddenly is very dangerous.

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Oh, one does NOT want to stop prescribed anti-depressant without doing it very carefully. I recently ran out, and if it wasn't for following a pharmacists advice to take a different kind I have here until I got the funds to get my medicine, I would have had to go to the emergency room. Moon wobbles is just the start of withdrawl, not a good thing.

Personally I went the hitchhiking around southern California route with lots of drugs, not the prescription kind although a little talk therapy at 13. Then the prescription kind, school, and then MBT
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Hi Toby. I’ve been taking medications for bipolar II disorder for about 10 years. I also have numerous autoimmune diseases…hashimotos, addison’s, rhuematic joint pains, asthma, allergies….etc. I take meds for all of those issues also. Not having a body that works correctly can be very depressing. When I was younger, I was very suicidal sometimes because I thought it was unfair that I had to deal with health problems. My desire for good health just caused more suffering and I didn’t even realize it. As time went on, I grow spiritually. I had a stubborn need to know the answer to the question “why do we exist and why do I have to suffer?”. I studied all of the major religions, new age stuff, and through the years I found peace and happiness in the mist of medical imperfection.

I agree with Ted. You are not the anxious thoughts you might be experiencing at this time from PTSD. You are not your damaged body either. You are something far greater. When I learned to separate my conscience from my crazy thoughts, I was then able to neutralize the thinking. A book by Eckhart Tolle called ‘The Power of Now’ helped me with this. I still need to take medication and I’m still “disabled”. But my conscience is at peace even thought my body is a mess. The two are separate. I’ve learned to accept my body the way it is and I now help others in similar medical situations. Taking a medical illness and using it to help others has been very rewarding for me. When I accepted the “what is” and made an effort to make something positive out of my situation, my life drastically improved. Loving people just poured into my life in ways I could not have imagined.

Tom’s book was an important part of this journey. I know now the learning is why we’re here and the quality of your consciousness and intentions is all that matters. Having a problematic body is very humbling. But it also teaches us compassion towards others. And isn’t that why we’re here….to learn these lessons? Keep taking your meds and find a support group where people can relate to you. Accept your situation at the present moment like you asked for it to be that way and make an effort to grow spiritually every day. One day you might feel well enough to help others with PTSD and teach them about the “big picture”. I’m forty now and I wouldn’t change my body if given the chance. I wouldn’t be leading help groups, met my soul mate, or have read MY BIG TOE. I might be worried about my BMW being too old or wearing the something that’s out of style. LOL

George

Hello, I have decided to chime in with some words of advice.

I am not going to tell you to get off of the Prozac. When you come to a point where you feel you want to get of them, I would advise you take the proper steps to do so. Like other posters have said you cannot stop taking them suddenly. I do know many people that where on them and progressively took less and less, to the point where they did not feel the withdrawal. According to what I have learned when you stop taking them your brain will not make its own serotonin for some time, once it realizes it will not be getting it from the pill it will start manufacturing again. The withdrawal period is where there is low serotonin. However there are many more natural ways to combat depresssion on top of meditatione and mindfulness excersizes. One thing that helps is the realization that it is a learned habbit, whether it was consciously or sub-consciously, your body got into the habbit of firing off those stress hormones, once it starts it snow balls and gets easier for them to fire. Just the same way a habbit is created it must be undone, in small steps. Some supplements I would recommend from personal experience, as well as helping others with this are as follows.

-Lions Mane Mushroom extract- The active compound in this can penetrate the blood-brain barrier and promote the growth of healthy neurons in the brain.
-DHA Omega Oils- This is one of the main substances neurons and other parts of the brain are built from. This is found in good concentrations in breast milk because it is essential for the brain.
-5-HTP(5-Hydroxytryptophan)- This is an amino acid that is a precursor to Serotonin, aka this is the building block of serotonin.
-Gingko Biloba Liquid Extract- This herb promotes blood flow throughout the body, even to micro capilaries in the brain. This is a good thing to take because all the nutrients and compounds that you are introducing into your system can reach the desired area more freely and easily(the brain).
-Adaptogenic Herbs(Rhodiola, Ginseng, Gotu Kola) These herbs, and many more are known as adaptogens and help the body better handle stress, and better handle the balance of hormones in the blood that cause stress(cortisol). When taken regularly will help to reduce the stress response from a percieved threat(even ones left over in the mind).

All of those above taken synergistically with the help of meditation, and intent practices could help tremendously. Like I said do not do this until you feel that you are ready to get off of the Prozac. I am not a doctor, and this does not qualify as professional medical advice, and I never inteded it too. These are things known in the alternative medicine field, and studies will suggest that these herbs and supplements can have these positive effects. I hope that I help you along your healing process and if you have any other questions please feel free to ask. My thoughts are with you, I know how agonizing this sort of thing can be.

Welcome to Tom's MBT discussion forums George.

I am starting to get Arthur my son with autism off some of his medications, starting with Zyprexa.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Thank you for the welcome Bette. Best of luck with Arthur. Keep us updated on his progress.

George

It’s not easy living with a condition you feel handicaps your potential and growth. It’s frustrating, confusion and down-right annoying at times. I know by personal experience.

Meditation does help. Positive thinking does help. Living in the moment, feeling joy, do help. Having good friends to talk, not so much about anti-depressats, how hard it can be, etc., but friends are there for fun, for bonding, for a sense of belonging. Friends are meant to talk about mundane things, having fun moments. That helped me alot.

You gotta have an ambition, a drive and a dream to heal, get better, move on and become what you really are at your fullest potential.

I’ve been very low in emotional levels, very. Hard-core depressed and all the cocktail. But I always dreamed, day-dreamed, wished for me to heal, feel better and move on. After much struggling, I got much better.

MBT has tremendous valuable information that will help you. Reading the book, is a must. Its not the holy grail, but it points tremendous clues as to what reality is all about, what consciousness is all about. It’s very valuable and if you take the time to read it, understand it, live and experience it, you’ll see the results. I already feel the results of Tom’s logical, skeptic but open-mind pragmatic views of consciousness. There is no flah-flah. Direct, concise and very logically undeniable.

That being said, it’s a tough road. Very. Changing ones being is extremely difficult. You have to deal with core, deep emotions, ideas, genes, DNA, consciousness and the lessons, hard one -_-, the conscious big picture gives you.

Take life as a lesson. You the student. Learn as much as possible. Every single second of your life is an opportunity to grow. When your time is up, like it does to everyone, its possible you’ll have regrets, we all do to some extent, and we’re young, so imagine then. But if you look back, acknowledge the lessons you passed, those you failed, those you understood and those you didn’t. Having of what one does can be achieve in many ways by effort, dedication and perseverance. I say that, also to remind myself ^_^, because its somewhat true. If you applied authentically, honestly and humility to learn, observe and grow by respecting your limitations and defaults, you can be proud, and you’ll then give full credit to your talents and qualities. To be proud is to surpass one’s fear, to forgive, to accept and to love.

Love means understanding, compassion, respect, dignity and is the fundamental « law » of the higher consciousness system. Martin Luther King based his civil right movement on love. Show love when confronted to hate, even if it costs your life. Non-violent resistance is also synonymous with love. Non-violent resistance is what Gandhi, M.L. King and Mandela lived. You’d agree they were great man.

The best form of meditation is « abandon ». It means not resisting, it means trusting the higher consciousness system and listening to it message, giving to you by lessons, clues, challenges and by your efforts to improve your quality of consciousness. To « abandon » is tremendously hard. It’s an emotional state, not intellectual. Intellectual experience leads to dualism, a battle with oneself, providing often more than not, frustrating, illusions, etc. Your mental is the fruit of your automatisms created by your robotic, slave, automatic, cruise control being. It can be very hard to get rid of your mental. Its a trap, a prison. But accept it as a thing you have, not a thing that controls you, manipulates you, defeats you or makes you ill. I was tremendously ill, I’m still ill, but I’m making leaps of progress.

Getting the right info on all these things is the right attitude to have. This forum is plenty of it, very good and valuable. Diversify your sources of information, not just MBT. Why? Because by looking elsewhere, what I often felt was the quality of MBT. Looking elsewhere gives you opportunities to compare, and say, ok this author says this, the other that, some disagree, other agree, okay and MBT tells it in a different and what I found out is that MBT answers many of the questions I had, not all of ‘em, its not perfect, and MBT doesn’t pretend to be.

Anyhow, good luck on your journey. It’s hard, so grab a shield, a sword and move in this world of possibilities, joy, opportunities and beautiful landscapes as a warrior. Defend yourself, from yourself, from others and fight with courage against your fears with a joyous heart. Don’t take yourself too seriously, let things be ridicule, funny and out of hands. Accept defeat with grace, shame, anger and disappointed. When you win, remember the bad times and when you lose, remember the good times. Gives a sense of perspective.

Both warriors, good or evil, enter a duel and both will die for their freedom. Both know the danger, both can handle pain, blood and death. Being good mean defending what is truly precious to you. If you’re like me, you health is your most precious thing.

Enjoy. Good luck and I’ll pray for you as much as I can. If I find you out there, lol.

_________________
God Bless,
M Jack


Courage is not the absence of fear,
Courage is the mastery of fear.

It’s not easy living with a condition you feel handicaps your potential and growth. It’s frustrating, confusion and down-right annoying at times. I know by personal experience.

Meditation does help. Positive thinking does help. Living in the moment, feeling joy, do help. Having good friends to talk, not so much about anti-depressats, how hard it can be, etc., but friends are there for fun, for bonding, for a sense of belonging. Friends are meant to talk about mundane things, having fun moments. That helped me alot.

You gotta have an ambition, a drive and a dream to heal, get better, move on and become what you really are at your fullest potential.

I’ve been very low in emotional levels, very. Hard-core depressed and all the cocktail. But I always dreamed, day-dreamed, wished for me to heal, feel better and move on. After much struggling, I got much better.

MBT has tremendous valuable information that will help you. Reading the book, is a must. Its not the holy grail, but it points tremendous clues as to what reality is all about, what consciousness is all about. It’s very valuable and if you take the time to read it, understand it, live and experience it, you’ll see the results. I already feel the results of Tom’s logical, skeptic but open-mind pragmatic views of consciousness. There is no flah-flah. Direct, concise and very logically undeniable.

That being said, it’s a tough road. Very. Changing ones being is extremely difficult. You have to deal with core, deep emotions, ideas, genes, DNA, consciousness and the lessons, hard one -_-, the conscious big picture gives you.

Take life as a lesson. You the student. Learn as much as possible. Every single second of your life is an opportunity to grow. When your time is up, like it does to everyone, its possible you’ll have regrets, we all do to some extent, and we’re young, so imagine then. But if you look back, acknowledge the lessons you passed, those you failed, those you understood and those you didn’t. Having of what one does can be achieve in many ways by effort, dedication and perseverance. I say that, also to remind myself ^_^, because its somewhat true. If you applied authentically, honestly and humility to learn, observe and grow by respecting your limitations and defaults, you can be proud, and you’ll then give full credit to your talents and qualities. To be proud is to surpass one’s fear, to forgive, to accept and to love.

Love means understanding, compassion, respect, dignity and is the fundamental « law » of the higher consciousness system. Martin Luther King based his civil right movement on love. Show love when confronted to hate, even if it costs your life. Non-violent resistance is also synonymous with love. Non-violent resistance is what Gandhi, M.L. King and Mandela lived. You’d agree they were great man.

The best form of meditation is « abandon ». It means not resisting, it means trusting the higher consciousness system and listening to it message, giving to you by lessons, clues, challenges and by your efforts to improve your quality of consciousness. To « abandon » is tremendously hard. It’s an emotional state, not intellectual. Intellectual experience leads to dualism, a battle with oneself, providing often more than not, frustrating, illusions, etc. Your mental is the fruit of your automatisms created by your robotic, slave, automatic, cruise control being. It can be very hard to get rid of your mental. Its a trap, a prison. But accept it as a thing you have, not a thing that controls you, manipulates you, defeats you or makes you ill. I was tremendously ill, I’m still ill, but I’m making leaps of progress.

Getting the right info on all these things is the right attitude to have. This forum is plenty of it, very good and valuable. Diversify your sources of information, not just MBT. Why? Because by looking elsewhere, what I often felt was the quality of MBT. Looking elsewhere gives you opportunities to compare, and say, ok this author says this, the other that, some disagree, other agree, okay and MBT tells it in a different and what I found out is that MBT answers many of the questions I had, not all of ‘em, its not perfect, and MBT doesn’t pretend to be.

Anyhow, good luck on your journey. It’s hard, so grab a shield, a sword and move in this world of possibilities, joy, opportunities and beautiful landscapes as a warrior. Defend yourself, from yourself, from others and fight with courage against your fears with a joyous heart. Don’t take yourself too seriously, let things be ridicule, funny and out of hands. Accept defeat with grace, shame, anger and disappointed. When you win, remember the bad times and when you lose, remember the good times. Gives a sense of perspective.

Both warriors, good or evil, enter a duel and both will die for their freedom. Both know the danger, both can handle pain, blood and death. Being good mean defending what is truly precious to you. If you’re like me, you health is your most precious thing.

Enjoy. Good luck and I’ll pray for you as much as I can. If I find you out there, lol.

_________________
God Bless,
M Jack


Courage is not the absence of fear,
Courage is the mastery of fear.