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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:23 pm 
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bette wrote:
This may be a related thought.

1. Consciousness and free will are a team, you don't have one without the other?

2. A FWAU and free will are a team, you don't have one without the other?

If 1 is "true" then 2 will be true as well, but if 1 is not true then I have more to discuss. I think this is related because I have been thinking about the association between free will and decision space, and about free will and if my IUOC has more, less, or the same amount of it than me/FWAU. Intent, Decision Space, and Free Will all seem dependent on each other to me, and Intent, bottom line, is dependent on QoC, as I understand it. Our Intent is what our choices will come out of, right?
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Bette


yes, I think that lines up nicely...

free will=consciousness->QoC/intent expressed through an FWAU within an intentionally optimized constrained decision space?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:34 pm 
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Ted Vollers wrote:
It seems reasonably clear that he is referring to the guidance we receive from the CS as providing nudges, etc. as conscience or intuition. That guidance would normally amount to not violating the free will of others, except for the usual exceptions to protect those who cannot protect themselves.
Ted


sure...I am just trying to make a point that does not violate the local terminology ruleset - it is highly important to me as it is the core my particular TOE...focusing on the dynamic of being human and facing a decision in the decision tree when faced with strong negative primal impulse in response to anger, envy, etc

lets try this one

its what we do with the initial primal impulse as we analyse what to do with it:

#1- against PMR-level practical societal rulesets (i.e. restraint to avoid jail) or
#2- against guidance available to us from the CS in the form of intuition and conscience

I would go so far as to say 99% of life is determined by this dynamic...the existence and effectiveness of our capacity to filter what we feel like doing through the separate filters of pragmatism and conscience.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:45 pm 
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kroeran wrote:
its what we do with the initial primal impulse as we analyse what to do with it:

#1- against PMR-level practical societal rulesets (i.e. restraint to avoid jail) or
#2- against the feedback implications of the higher (NPMR) ruleset (i.e. exercising loving intent)
Okay so Randy, this is a question then? Is what you are asking: "what controls us, our QoC or fear?"
Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:11 pm 
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bette wrote:
kroeran wrote:
its what we do with the initial primal impulse as we analyse what to do with it:

#1- against PMR-level practical societal rulesets (i.e. restraint to avoid jail) or
#2- against the feedback implications of the higher (NPMR) ruleset (i.e. exercising loving intent)
Okay so Randy, this is a question then? Is what you are asking: "what controls us, our QoC or fear?"
Love
Bette


I know your not asking me but... I would say our QoC, but fear limits it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:22 pm 
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bette wrote:
kroeran wrote:
its what we do with the initial primal impulse as we analyse what to do with it:

#1- against PMR-level practical societal rulesets (i.e. restraint to avoid jail) or
#2- against the feedback implications of the higher (NPMR) ruleset (i.e. exercising loving intent)
Okay so Randy, this is a question then? Is what you are asking: "what controls us, our QoC or fear?"
Love
Bette


maybe the last posting will clarify for you where I am going with this - not a question, just an ongoing attempt to reframe a thought that does not violate the MBTOE communication ruleset

goes back to Jumbles speculating that he might be somehow in trouble for his inner thought impulses, and my incompetent attempt to suggest that these thoughts arise, but are not part of the intent-feedback decision tree... they are hardwired impulses to be responded to, subject to analysis at the practical and conscience levels.

like, we all have bad feelings....feel shitty....that's not our fault (for the purposes of this discussion)

the key is how you respond to this... there is a set of responses that harm yourself (ie. drugs), either directly or through attracting the attention of PMR justice system, and a further set of responses that harm others (i.e. hitting your wife), that attracts the attention of the higher ruleset and generates lower QoC and negative feedback

and there is a separate set of responses that protects yourself (harmless distraction), even invest in yourself (take a course or start exercise), and an even better set of responses drawn from conscience and the higher ruleset (volunteer in a hospice or reconcile with a relative). This latter set of responses may increase your QoC and generate positive feedback.

I like Lumpy's comment on fear...more of an interference in the core process - fear of doing something different than than our default way of doing things, fear of failure and looking silly, and so on - I guess I need to think more about fear.

Not saying this is how it is, just my understanding at this time as a beginner TOE-head.

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