I met one of the writers for Star Trek, Harlan Ellison, while attending my local college. I can imagine that he would have been open to being fed ideas, for sure actually. He migth even remember me because I was the only one that raised my hand in the private honors class meeting we had before his lecture, when he asked who believes in UFOs, and I wrote when he said "going postal" because it was new then, and he grabbed my note book to see that I wrote that down. I bet he'd remember that too. Plus, coming to Ridgecrest to give a lecture HAD to stick in his mind as he was probably thinking, "what have I done" driving 2 hours through open desert to get here. He was cool, and open I think.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

I think all art and creativity is meaningless, unless is it NPMR sourced.

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

LOL

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

Why?

Subjectively or objectively meaningless?

What exactly do you mean by "NPMR sourced"? Isn't the "source" just consciousness? NPMR is virtual...

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Mike

You're certainly entitled to your opinion Randy, thanks for sharing it here. I think all art and creativity is meaningFUL, it has the exact meaning we choose to assign to it, just like life, love and religion.

to clarify, I believe real art occurs when the artist has opened the channel between mind (PMR) and subconcious (NMPR, higher self), by intent (meditation or consciousness shift for those who can) or by chance (volume + happy accident), and that which is there is incarnated here, on the canvas, in the poem, in the song, in the sculpture, in the prose, in the choreography, and so on...

in legacy language, I would call this becoming God's paintbrush, channelling the other world into this.

otherwise art is just internal mental PMR masturbation, with no value-added, which ends up as a downward spiral into mere shock value - excrement smeared on a crucifix anyone?

where I experienced this directly, in my yout, I would write a song every day, and once in a while the door would open and something would be created that did not come from me (PMR me), and that would be art, and the other was just flat stuff created by my mind.

maybe I am just imagining all this

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

I wouldn't say you are imagining it, but it is your own Reality with "real" art meaning that to you when another person might always have that going on in all their art, while another would never have that happening, but their art is as "real" as what you are referring to as real, do you see what I mean Randy?
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

I guess it goes to why there is all this fuss about "art".

There appears to be three general perspectives on this....

1) Group 1 does not relate in any way to art and is completely baffled as to why anyone would give this attention

2) Group 2 is emmersed in the artistic "lifestyle", where art is the golden calf, a veritable vortex of ego and one upsmanship (Ugly Betty world), yet little actual "true" art is involved, or if it is, it is by accident

3) Group 3 is actually creating and consuming "true" art, and creating and consuming requires ears that "hear" and eyes that "see", the non-visible world, ... true art makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck.

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

I generally agree kroeran, but consider a skillfully done painting of nature. To me, it is beautiful art born of PMR that is no less artistic than "divine" inspiration.

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Mike

In MY opinion any and ALL artistic is a reflection of the "creator" aspect of each and every individual. For example, I do not have a great singing voice, but when I play my guitar and sing it is as though I am connected to the entire cosmos

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LOVE is the answer

peace
patrick

for discussion purposes, I would say that is merely good draftsmanship, unless perhaps it is the low entropic "eye" that recognizes a "magical" je-ne-sais-quoi in a particular scene i.e. capturing AUM's art of nature on the canvas or in film.

Aethestics, like music, is one of a short list of weird things that don't seem to have an evolutionary explanation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesthetics

I should probably leave discussion of art to those who have followed that path...music composition and performance was my thing - a la Cat Stevens, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, interestingly, all of whom have had strong spiritual/religious elements to their lives.

I have wondered if all that poetic guitar strumming in my teenage years was the actual cause of the religious/spiritual fervour that followed, and that I still havn't shaken.

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

music trivia

- for esp research, students of music scored higher than average, were found to be reliably late, and any musician that actually showed up on time, did not test positive for esp

- Medium John Edward's visual symbol for prayer is music

- Spiritualist mediums may sing before a reading to establish a connection, and any song will do

- the fundamental PMR unit is vibrating strings, under string theory

- virtually all religious gatherings involve music (if they are not meditative traditions)

- the corpus callosum (connection between the brain hemispheres) of music students is twice as thick as for non students

- binaural beats can stimulate paranormal experiences

all this to say, music is something more than entertainment

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Music is entrainment. :)

I think maybe an issue is judging art to be real by it needing to have a only personally verifiable other worldly connection to All That Is before it can be considered real art to an other. One cannot assume to know what the artist experienced to even use that to judge something on. Maybe you are meaning that art that a person creates can only be known to the artist as having come from something more than this, and then to them the piece is only "real art" if it came form there. So is art you do, Randy, both types from there or here, only real to YOU if it was not of you, so to say? Or are you saying "real art" done by other, is only real to you if you believe the artist had some help from NPMR?
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

I see what you are saying, and valid point

I guess my view is that this is not personally subjective, because NPMR is real and to the extent that we are entrained/open/syntropic to it, our higher self recognises itself when faced with true art, be it from your own hand or the hand of another FWAU.

and in this way true art becomes part of the true dialogue of aesthetics between those who speak that language...wow, this is starting to sound real snobby! ; - )

beyond this, the Art we do starts to impregnate the art of living, and all action becomes Art, becomes increasingly animated by AUM rather than impulse, mind or ego, and that again is a subtle hidden language between its practitioners, invisible to some

and that's why most put down the brush at some point and focus on the more complex and intriguing art of living, and leave the Art of art behind (well, most of us)

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Does this PMR make my butt look big?

Yup. Snobbish and full of superiority and judgment. When I read your posts Randy, my mind always goes back to the forum members' get-together and your question about "gaming" the system. Now all your words here are colored by my thoughts of "this is the guy who not only thinks he can game the system, but thinks it was appropriate to ask Tom for pointers how to do it!"

LOL Thanks for the laugh. You're funny without even trying to be :)

Love,
Lynda