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Marcello,

You have not really caught on. Tom talks about the things that people are concerned about because that is what they are willing to listen to. Most people are not interested in learning the details. They want to understand that the purpose is to move towards love although they don't really understand what that means exactly. Love is one English word while there are a number of other associated words that come into the spectrum such as eros, agape, empathy and more. If you really want to understand, you need to understand the model of the CS and how the VRs are generated from the basic CS. Precisely where, why and how free will is generated or arises. The details that no one much is interested in. If you understood this you would understand how the IUOCs that we are really fit into the sum and total of AUM and together are AUM. Knowing what your relationship is to all other IUOCs and AUM and our interdependence would explain to you why love enters the equation. If you understood the model of the CS you would understand how entropy is an excellent and very precise word for what is meant. By lowering the entropy of individual IUOCs as they experience and participate in the interactions of the VR, their measure of disorder as entropy is reduced. This occurs automatically by the design of the VRs and has nothing to do with understanding the model or ever having heard of spirituality. As it occurs within each IUOC, it also accrues to the benefit of AUM.

Tom could take your advice and put vast effort into rewriting to meet your specifications but this would provide no more understanding in fact. You don't know enough yet to really know what you are asking for. Buzzing around in NPMR environments truly gives you little but entertainment. Hearing descriptions from Tom or others about their NPMR experiences provides little besides entertainment. What you really need is simply to keep your eyes open and note the discrepancy between the common understanding of our reality and as science describes it as a physical reality and how you can catch glimpses of the non physical aspects. There are many such described here. This is your proof by 'tasting' the pudding. But truly understanding means understanding it all and how it then fits together into the integral totality of reality. You would then not be asking these questions and insisting on what you feel is missing.

Ted

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VR stands for Virtual Reality. CS stands for Consciousness System. Thought you had read the books.

You missed a lot apparently. Tom explained why he did this based upon science and not just upon New Age concepts. There was much to accommodate in the writing and it is unfortunate that you could not be consulted as to your preferences. I would basically say that if you understood better, you would not have these particular demands. In a reality based upon existence as a digital based Consciousness System, entropy reduction is a perfect terminology. It isn't so much that Tom did not explain what is involved in this process as that you are not picking it up. It has also been explained many times that the PMR VR works without your knowing the details and if you had never heard of metaphysics or spirituality or Tom Campbell: because of the high intensity interactions and feed back. You don't have to know these things for the system to work. It has also been explained many times that the key to lowering entropy is to be mindful of others as you interact, specifically as to our all possessing free will. It is not all about 'me' and what 'I want'. Those with whom you interact also 'want'. If you take this into account in your interactions, trying to treat others as equals with equal rights as you possess, then you are doing it right. This is not easy. But it is your intent to do so that matters. Tom has a special interpretation of intent as Intent (our usage here with the I) as the basis of your actions towards others. Interact as best you can and pay attention to the feedback. It's the old teaching you how to fish versus giving you a fish. I would say that it is really impossible to give you 'stories' as examples. Exterior descriptions of interactions is not what it is about. It is about the internals of the interactions, the why (Intent) that X did this and Y responded with that. It comes down to an internal process that you must figure out for yourself by following the rubric, interact with the best care that you can and pay attention to the feedback. You can only know, as best you are able, why you did what you did and why the other with whom you interacted did as they did will usually be hidden or unclear. Therefore you must pay attention to the feedback to tell you what was right or not. Ten thousand vignettes will not tell you this as that can only show the exterior of the action, not the interior of the why. So knowing how to fish, catch your own as that is the only way to acquire such fish.

Ted

I have met Tom three times, two times at lectures and once at the weekend get together. He is a father, a husband, a friend, and the calmest person you may ever meet as he came to us in an emergency while my son was having a seizure at the first workshop I went to at the hotel everyone was staying at. I had some money issues and he helped me pay for my children and my hotel room for that lecture without accepting repayment from someone for it. His book can be read for free. He doesn't want anyone to believe him. Everything I have experienced with Tom and his wife Pamela makes me want them in my life as friends. Tom the man. There will be a book someday, but he is really just a really organized bit of the Larger Consciousness System with an important model that has pragmatic use in everyday life.

Have you read the Moral Code 1 and 2? They are on the main page, check those out.
Love
Bette

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All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

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I did not say that it would be impossible to give you 'stories'. I said that for reasons stated that it would be undesirable and counter productive. Using the book "How to win friends and influence people" as an example is far, far off the mark.

Saying that the system works whether you understand how it works or not is not a copyout or condescension. It is an explanation. An explanation to you that it does in fact work and that your understanding it is irrelevant to that.

I have no knowledge of the Teachings of Abraham so no knowledge of how it does or does not reconcile with MBT. I am no proponent of the 'law of attraction'. It is irrelevant to how the VR of PMR works. It is not fundamental.

I know of no way to pour understanding into your ears. Sorry about that. I will let others try if they wish.

Ted

I disagree that anecdotes couldn't hurt. It's sort of like how Tom doesn't tell stories, no matter how badly people would like him to tell some. Anecdotes may set up belief traps which lock your decision space into believing that there is only one way to act in that particular, or similar situations.

A really good choice made by an entity that lowers its entropy may be a terrible choice for another entity which ends up raising its entropy. It's all so relative.

He keeps things general because there is a common way to act at a high level that will reduce anyone's entropy: love.

If you want more specifics, I find this particular passage in MBT helpful:



Wants and desires are typically ego-based, which is the vast majority of wants and desires that people have - but there are a few exceptions. I think wanting to improve yourself (lower your entropy) for the good of the system is an admirable desire. Wanting to heal someone because they had an unlucky accident is probably a good thing, etc.

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Mike

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I suspect that Tom did not intend that those were 'true' stories to be believed but rather comments on the absurdity of trying to game the system. The system is unlikely to punish someone for wanting to do something like this. It's sort of like the board member who reported visualizing the winning lotto numbers and entering them with the result that he was off by one number all the way through. Sort of like the system thumbing its nose at you. Pointing out that yes, these things are real, but no, you can't play the system and profit by it. It only works if it has developmental value for you.

Ted

Just stay open minded and skeptical. Don't believe those stories either. I guess he figured there was enough value in those anecdotes to help more than hurt. The message in those stories was a warning not to let your ego dictate what you set your Intent on, and that the system doesn't like to work against itself (it's pretty black and white). But you're free to experiment and get the results and feedback. Those warnings may help you shift what sort of experiments you try out, if it made sense under the umbrella of your model of reality.

If it doesn't make any sense and it just scares you, well, just keep going. :)

Reminds me of a quote I particularly like: "If you're going through hell, keep going."

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Mike

You could say any belief is a trap. It limits your reality if the truth is that the belief is wrong. If you're lucky and the belief is correct.. well you don't actually know if you're correct so you're not any further along either.

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Mike

Marcello - I think in the beginning most of us here long for Tom to tell us thrilling stories about his NPMR travels. I know I did. It is only after quite awhile that you realize what a gift it is that he does not do that. I will give you the example of Bob Monroe who did exactly that. What readers of Bob Monroe's books seldom realize is that Bob's experiences were personal and subjective. I don't think even Bob realized that. He described his NPMR experiences which were interpreted from NPMR terms back into PMR language based upon his personal experiences and biases. People read his books and think that his descriptions are some kind of fundamental truths. They think that what Bob experienced is what everyone will experience. The Monroe Institute is founded on Bob's experiences. The focus levels are just something Bob interpreted. There are no fundamental focus levels that everyone can find if you look for them. You have to be taught them. They can be a handy place to start but a trap if you never move on from them or realize what they are.

So, if you believe all the stories you read from Bob Monroe, William Buhlman, Robert Bruce and all the other NPMR explorers it just unduly influences what you might experience. Each one of them may really experience the same thing. But they interpret it completely differently based on their own life experience and beliefs. It is much better for you to go out and try to methodically, scientifically explore NPMR on your own without filtering your experience through some one else's bias and then through your own bias.

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Marcello,

You can re-define ego and fear the way you want to, but then don't expect other people's usage of the word to make sense to you. This is becoming a semantics problem - we are using the same words but with different meanings. Since this is a forum for MBT, we generally like to use the terminology and the way words are defined in MBT. That way we have common ground to communicate effectively.

Whether or not the stories are true is irrelevant, what matters is whether it is of value to you. Sort of like fiction novels.

In those videos, I'm pretty sure he starts off with a disclaimer that what he talks about is a "skim over the top".

You are welcome to expressing and having your own TOE, but I find it hard to parse because I'm not sure of the meanings in the words you're using. I find "Life is about getting what you want" particularly disagreeable, but that just leads right into ego and fear again. I think it's good that you seem to do a lot of self-introspection. All I can say again is to keep going.

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Mike