I think....every job, and this is specific to local culture and more importantly, the culture of the boss, has a reaction algorithm to the QoC of the employee, and the interaction of that algorithm with the high QoCs decision space of a low entropy IUOC may lead to either a range of material negative consequences for the employee, or the will of the employee surrendering to the force of the algorithm, or some uncomfortable accommodation between the two.
So you say, that in theory, the refusal to accept the algorithm may lead to 'negative material consequences'. What do you mean with 'material'? Everything PMR-related ['physical'] or everything related to moneyz ['economic']...?
## a wise dude once told me, professionally, "you have to find your crowd"...and part of that is seeking and courting a boss or company or institution that has a high enough QoC behavioral bell curve to tolerate your "weirdness", or they are weird like you are...or you have to be so frigging productive, they are willing to overlook your weirdness - best to have both
money, office allocation, parking spot, pecking order, task type, tone of voice - there is a vast array of tools they employ as carrots and sticks to get control of you, and you are doing the same back to them, and this can be unfriendly either way, or it can be cooperative, win win (Stephen Covey anyone?)
all this PMR ego-material stuff though is secondary to the NPMR QoC feedback, where a serious material setback might coincide with positive QoC feedback...but this rare, and I believe it is not an either or thing
Judging by this:
with this part of life brought from disorder to order, the decision space opens up and energy can be redirected to higher things such as meditation, reading, focused intent, PSI, chatting on forums
- I guess what you mean with material here is the PMR-related stuff, isn't it? If not I would appreciate some further clarification on this. ;)
## so I am saying, figure out how to pay the rent in a practical reasonable way, that is relatively harmless, the usual free exchange of useful products or services, without going overboard into miserliness or love of money, so that you free up your attention for the higher things, which is difficult if you are worried about how to pay for your kids dental bill. The higher things also include using your worklife as a canvas of the higher arts, the how rather than the what.
Tom talks about first order, second order and third order drives. First order is food and water and sex. AUM built you with these drives, and I recommend a matter of fact, harm-less approach to these things, to avoid them taking up too much energy.
Second order is everything beyond the 5 minute planning horizon. Short term pain for long term gain. Education, saving, biting your lip, diet, exercise, ...all the selfish smart behaviors required of pragmatic life.
Third order is everything beyond the infinite PMR planning horizon. Some families have multigenerational planning, and will sacrifice their lives so that their children will have a better life. This is still kinda in the realm of ego..."for even the wicked do such things". Third order is the so called mystical love stuff, that really defies logic....Tom's higher ruleset, and then folding in the concept of balance, which Tom also talks about, but does not directly link to first, second and third order drives.
My interpretation of this is that the algorithm of our life is find that sweet spot that balances our first, second and third order hungers, at each moment of our decision tree, and that a commitment to this is a sort of fourth order of efficiency, as most people are dominated by one of the lower orders.
A monk is someone who chooses the third order, and makes war with the first and second. The teaching and example of Tom, (and Judaism) is that we can have it all, it is all about pleasure, but this is not hedonism, it is about sustainable pleasure maximized across your lifetime, and the lifetime of your higher apparently eternal self.
the core hypothesis is that persons under stress may be seeking spiritual answers to what is a problem of disconnection from their economic ecology.
This is some sound analysis.
Basically I can relate to this model. I just thought about how it might be possible to detect that algorithm for oneself. So that it is clear what one needs to surrender to and stop fighting against. Or do you think it is advisable to follow a personal codex - Hagakure-style
- in this regard?
this is outside my understanding, but after a brief wiki review, it brings to mind what Tom says about fearlessness and how dieing is just not that big a deal. Its like that crazy teen chick who sailed around the planet...what a powerful example of fearlessness...or these bible thumpers I know who tromp into the jungle routinely to save child slaves....they are having such a great time
(while racking up pension credits in safe jobs)
now, I present this as one option to open up one 's decision space...one's guides or the FWAU themselves may choose economic disorder or a vow of poverty or a siddarthian exit from the castle to gather different data
To me this approach seems reasonable. I will contemplate its consequences - if applied to my situation. Thanks. ;)
I was reaching into other thinking in this regard...Tom's guidance is more about dropping in than dropping out. Part of being ordinary, in things superficial and visible, is to stick a silver spike through ego, and defeat spiritual materialism....to borrow from Chogyam.
It was Chogyam's membership in the Boulder Chamber of Commerce that startled me out of the counter culture...like that other guy here that can't wrap his head around the quality of Tom's teachings, and the fact that he worked on missal defense.
the real challenge is figuring out just exactly what is bothering you...where is the itch - in your twenties, there are normally about five or six to sort out...its very confusing, and difficult to isolate and dispense with each one.
I suggest examining and testing each one of these separately
- taking egolessness too far, mental egolessness beyond core being egolessness
- inefficiently narrow financial decision space (Rich Dad, poor Dad)
- anthropological incorrectness (disconnect from R-complex and nature - paleolithicism)
- aesthetic stress (living in an ugly messy environment)
- social stress...are my buddies/family bringing me down, holding me back (Antony Robbins)
sometimes, what we think might demand a great spiritual quest, can be solved by going camping or joining a poker club, and our spirituality itself can become the disease.
what a great discussion!